http://dbd.game/killswitch
BBQ change with camping help .
We all have a love hate relationship with how BBQ works and doesn't work, both with the bp gain but also hook rushing and aura reading. So my idea takes BBQ and turns it in a different direction and also gives out some bonus bp to killers.
If anything BBQ should change to be reverse of what it is now get rid of the outside distance and turn it inwards.
For instance at all 3 ranks the it shows you all survivors inside say 16 meters from the hook which is the minimum distance between hooks. So anything under 16 meters away to the hook their aura is shown to you for 3 seconds.
Anything beyond that no auras are shown so you know for a fact that no one is close and you have no need to patrol. If anyone gets inside that 16 meter range before the timer is up they get tagged for x seconds by the aura reading. Where x seconds is the amount of the 4 seconds remaining from time of the hook.
The only thing that would separate the 3 ranks is the bonus BP % you get for each 1st hook so instead of it being a stackable 15,20,25% at the 3 ranks.
Rank I currently gives you 15,30,45,60 %
Rank II currently gives you 20,40,60,80%
Rank III currently gives you 25,50,75,100%
In addition to the inward aura reading being 16 meters at all ranks the bonus BP % would be as follows at all 3 ranks.
New Bonus %
Rank I 20, 40, 60, 80 % Bonus BP
Rank II 25, 50, 75, 100% Bonus BP
Rank III 50, 100, 150, 200% Bonus BP
This has the added bonus of giving killers the bonus bp for facing SWF and solo's at the same time but also encourages you to leave the hook. Since you'll be able to see anyone within 1 hooks distance of you once you hook you'll be certain if someones near or not.
This will also prevent survivors scrambling to get under the BBQ range and thus crowding the hook area and making the killer soft camp when that's not their intention. Now to counter the issue with removing the distant aura reading issue you could do the following.
You could change it to keep the distant aura reading but lower the max range and lower the duration of the aura being shown to 2 seconds. So you hook and it takes you 1 seconds or so to turn around so you get 1 second may'be the full 2 or so to see in the distance.
The survivors then have time to move around/decoy without worrying about a high mobility killer appearing in their lap 2 seconds after a hook.
One change is to make it instead of aura make it location basd in general.
Comments
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I can be the first and say, I definitely agree with this change. Not only it solves the "I don't know if someone is nearby" issue but it also awards more BP to the killer. Great job @powerbats!powerbats said:We all have a love hate relationship with how BBQ works and doesn't work, both with the bp gain but also hook rushing and aura reading. So my idea takes BBQ and turns it in a different direction and also gives out some bonus bp to killers.
If anything BBQ should change to be reverse of what it is now get rid of the outside distance and turn it inwards.
For instance at all 3 ranks the it shows you all survivors inside say 16 meters from the hook which is the minimum distance between hooks. So anything under 16 meters away to the hook their aura is shown to you for 3 seconds.
Anything beyond that no auras are shown so you know for a fact that no one is close and you have no need to patrol. If anyone gets inside that 16 meter range before the timer is up they get tagged for x seconds by the aura reading. Where x seconds is the amount of the 4 seconds remaining from time of the hook.
The only thing that would separate the 3 ranks is the bonus BP % you get for each 1st hook so instead of it being a stackable 15,20,25% at the 3 ranks.
Rank I currently gives you 15,30,45,60 %
Rank II currently gives you 20,40,60,80%
Rank III currently gives you 25,50,75,100%In addition to the inward aura reading being 16 meters at all ranks the bonus BP % would be as follows at all 3 ranks.
New Bonus %
Rank I 20, 40, 60, 80 % Bonus BP
Rank II 25, 50, 75, 100% Bonus BP
Rank III 50, 100, 150, 200% Bonus BPThis has the added bonus of giving killers the bonus bp for facing SWF and solo's at the same time but also encourages you to leave the hook. Since you'll be able to see anyone within 1 hooks distance of you once you hook you'll be certain if someones near or not.
This will also prevent survivors scrambling to get under the BBQ range and thus crowding the hook area and making the killer soft camp when that's not their intention. Now to counter the issue with removing the distant aura reading issue you could do the following.
You could change it to keep the distant aura reading but lower the max range and lower the duration of the aura being shown to 2 seconds. So you hook and it takes you 1 seconds or so to turn around so you get 1 second may'be the full 2 or so to see in the distance.
The survivors then have time to move around/decoy without worrying about a high mobility killer appearing in their lap 2 seconds after a hook.
One change is to make it instead of aura make it location basd in general.
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First I want to apologise for how short my answer will be compared to your huge post.
But I doubt it would change anything appart from survivor not giving a ######### about bbq anymore.
People that would have camp with the old BBQ would still camp with your revised BBQ because survivor will still want to go for the hook rescue because of the JUICY 1250 unhook point.
People that camp are either feedup of chasing a survivor around.
Or the door are open and he know that if they manage to unhook they won't catch them back or a replacement
Or they know for a fact survivor are going to greed other the unhook point or don't want to leave their mate to die
Or just because they want to.You can give perk (or change them) to give incentive to leave the hook or punish them, they still won't move.
Because if they have an habit of camping chance are they won't use perk that try to make them not camp and won't care about punishment especially something as laughable as losing a tiny bit of emblem point (seriously BHVR da ######### where you smoking when you decided to do that change)Ps; Also I forgot to had that survivor are already complaining that killer gain more bp than them, if you buff the ammount of BP BBQ give their will be even more people complaining about killer BP gain
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More bloodpoints is never the answer, it is only a band-aid solution.0
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as somone who's played 60/40 survivor and killer, the changes they are making are dumb. bbq is probably the only perk that really incentives other survivors, they need more perks like it.
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@Dragonredking said:
First I want to apologise for how short my answer will be to your huge post.But I doubt it would change anything appart from survivor not giving a ######### about bbq anymore.
People that would have camp with the old BBQ would still camp with your revised BBQ because survivor will still want to go for the hook rescue because of the JUICY 1250 unhook point.
People that camp are either feedup of chasing a survivor around.
Or the door are open and he know that if they manage to unhook they won't catch them back or a replacement
Or they know for a fact survivor are going to greed other the unhook point or don't want to leave their mate to die
Or just because they want to.You can give perk (or change them) to give incentive to leave the hook or punish them, they still won't move.
Because if they have an habit of camping chance are they won't use perk that try to make them not camp and won't care about punishment especially something as laughable as losing a tiny bit of emblem point (seriously BHVR da [BAD WORD] where you smoking when you decided to do that change)Well for the hardcore campers it won't change anything, nothing really ever will until there's a punishment that fits the crime so to speak.
This is for the people that camp because bbq doesn't show an aura thus they think rightly or wrongly someones close to the hook. This assures them that hey no one is right next to me and thus I can go after someone who's in the distance.
There's no need to patrol camp at that point and the bbq bonus is a biber buff than currently is there thus giving even more incentive to move.
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@powerbats Just to clarify, your proposed changes will shift BBQ and Chili into a superior Territorial Imperative, correct? This just begs the question, what will you do to Territorial Imperative then?
Personally, I'd love this sort of change, but unless I'm horribly mistaken this perk partially exists through Territorial Imperative so unless you can change both perks I'm afraid that you'll be killing Territorial off.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
More bloodpoints is never the answer, it is only a band-aid solution.Yet killers all say they want more blood points, especially when versing swf so if this is a band aid solution what would you propose then? Most killers say BBQ doesn't reward enough blood points right now.
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@Peasant said:
@powerbats Just to clarify, your proposed changes will shift BBQ and Chili into a superior Territorial Imperative, correct? This just begs the question, what will you do to Territorial Imperative then?Personally, I'd love this sort of change, but unless I'm horribly mistaken this perk partially exists through Territorial Imperative so unless you can change both perks I'm afraid that you'll be killing Territorial off.
Well Territorial works for basements only whereas this is BBQ both inverted while also retaining some of it's normal outward utility. Territorial will still be the best for basement builds but for BBQ builds this will work great and compliment Territorial really well.
I mean can you imagine the inverted BBQ, with Insidious Leatherface?
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I’m not proposing anything; however, I’m not against the reverse meter range of BBQ idea though. What I’m telling you is that they won’t give you more bloodpoints because it would depreciate the value of they’re only currency to level a character up.powerbats said:@Speshul_Kitten said:
More bloodpoints is never the answer, it is only a band-aid solution.Yet killers all say they want more blood points, especially when versing swf so if this is a band aid solution what would you propose then? Most killers say BBQ doesn't reward enough blood points right now.
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Make it the same radius as it is now.
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I don't entirely believe it will work. Part of the allure of BBQ is that it shows people far off to go after. It gives them a general idea of where to go. Without that, they'll have to wonder if it's better to camp knowing someone is coming eventually, or the game is screwed and they'll have to secure a kill, or wander off blindly.
Also, this would lead to the reverse of what happens now. Survivors going away from the hook to get out of range, then just going back in immediately once the timer s up, wouldn't it?
The best way to go, IMO, is just to give it a massive AOE that shows auras near and far. Especially with several new aura blocking abilities on the horizon.
Yeah, it seems powerful that way, but knowing no one is near the hook, and they're all out there is strong encouragement to leave the hook. It removes the part that can turn the killer into a paranoid wreck.
This way the killer knows if anyone is close, or not, and can react accordingly with a target to go after.0 -
@Rebel_Raven said:
I don't entirely believe it will work. Part of the allure of BBQ is that it shows people far off to go after. It gives them a general idea of where to go. Without that, they'll have to wonder if it's better to camp knowing someone is coming eventually, or the game is screwed and they'll have to secure a kill, or wander off blindly.Also, this would lead to the reverse of what happens now. Survivors going away from the hook to get out of range, then just going back in immediately once the timer s up, wouldn't it?
The best way to go, IMO, is just to give it a massive AOE that shows auras near and far. Especially with several new aura blocking abilities on the horizon.
Yeah, it seems powerful that way, but knowing no one is near the hook, and they're all out there is strong encouragement to leave the hook. It removes the part that can turn the killer into a paranoid wreck.
This way the killer knows if anyone is close, or not, and can react accordingly with a target to go after.For the far that's why i suggested near the end is a aura or location perk for the distance but with the limited timer to balance it out. The general location similar to Rancor (thanks for that one @Nickenzie ) is a better idea since as i said Billy/Nurse/Spirit can charge across the map to get you.
So in this case you get the close in hard aura reading and the outer location reading which will still show you people far off. Both sides get the best of both worlds with balance and killer don't feel like someones close. While survivors don't feel like they have to hook rush to stay under the aura thus making the killer feel like they have to stay close.
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I read this quickly, but i think i like it. Would still be an anticamping perk.0
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The current BBQ is fine. The aura-reading is mediocre, but the bp bonus is what makes it worth it. It is strong on killers like spirit, billy, and nurse, but not too strong. There usually isn't a clear path to a survivor you spot with BBQ. You just get the general area if not. It's a time saver, instead of having to patrol all the gens you can catch survivors if they are lazy. It helps apply gen pressure. This perk isn't necessary to do so but it helps. If you want a rework you have to have the new version just as strong as the old or then it's a buff or a nerf. This is a nerf because 16m is essentially nothing. People that hide from BBQ hide at the edge of the terror radius (from my experience). 16m is half of the terror radius. This rework allows the same counterplay, but a worse overall perk. 2 seconds? That's enough time to catch someone if they aren't behind a gen and are just standing there. You get so little use out of BBQ if you use it to tell if people are around the hook. Survivors already have time to fake their direction, with 1-2 seconds you don't even need to. This seems like a massive nerf. If I misunderstood something please elaborate.1
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@KingB said:
The current BBQ is fine. The aura-reading is mediocre, but the bp bonus is what makes it worth it. It is strong on killers like spirit, billy, and nurse, but not too strong. There usually isn't a clear path to a survivor you spot with BBQ. You just get the general area if not. It's a time saver, instead of having to patrol all the gens you can catch survivors if they are lazy. It helps apply gen pressure. This perk isn't necessary to do so but it helps. If you want a rework you have to have the new version just as strong as the old or then it's a buff or a nerf. This is a nerf because 16m is essentially nothing. People that hide from BBQ hide at the edge of the terror radius (from my experience). 16m is half of the terror radius. This rework allows the same counterplay, but a worse overall perk. 2 seconds? That's enough time to catch someone if they aren't behind a gen and are just standing there. You get so little use out of BBQ if you use it to tell if people are around the hook. Survivors already have time to fake their direction, with 1-2 seconds you don't even need to. This seems like a massive nerf. If I misunderstood something please elaborate.You have 16 meters from you which is the distance from the hook to the next hook plus your character model so 17 meters. That's a hard aura reading meaning you see anyone under that distance thus you know if it's safe to leave the hook or not.
Then the last change I'd made still gives you the distance reading but with a reduced timer so the speedy killer aren't so broken. Instead of being an exact location it changes to a general location similar to Doctor's madness screams.
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I like BBQ just the way it is. Don't mess with perfection.
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I had a similar idea but got bashed for it.
But yes reverse the effect, reveal all auras within like 24-32m for 4 seconds. It would still serve the same purpose, make better decisions, save Killers time, and most importantly punish and scare the ######### out of overaltruistic survivors and hookswarmers.3 -
@ChesterTheMolesterChesterTheMolester said:I had a similar idea but got bashed for it.
But yes reverse the effect, reveal all auras within like 24-32m for 4 seconds. It would still serve the same purpose, save Killers time, and most importantly scare the ######### out of overaltruistic survivors and hookswarmers.
As a survivor main i would love to have something to punish hookswarmers.2 -
Me too, in fact to this day i dodge as solo survivor when i see 3-SWFs, i got killed by them way to often.Vietfox said:
@ChesterTheMolesterChesterTheMolester said:I had a similar idea but got bashed for it.
But yes reverse the effect, reveal all auras within like 24-32m for 4 seconds. It would still serve the same purpose, save Killers time, and most importantly scare the ######### out of overaltruistic survivors and hookswarmers.
As a survivor main i would love to have something to punish hookswarmers.0 -
@Powerbats that's still only 16 meters. Just because it's a hard aura reading doesn't mean it is good. Nurses Calling is 28m. 16 meters is such a small distance. If it wasn't, boil over would be a good perk. I don't know the exact distance, but 16m is laughable. It's not broken now. Rarely ever is there a straight path to a survivor. Even then killer has to charge ability, and they don't get there instantly (except nurse with distance add-ons). I saw that, you get what 1 second? That's also insanely small. This is such a massive nerf to an already balanced perk.0
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@ChesterTheMolester said:
I had a similar idea but got bashed for it.But yes reverse the effect, reveal all auras within like 24-32m for 4 seconds. It would still serve the same purpose, make better decisions, save Killers time, and most importantly punish and scare the ######### out of overaltruistic survivors and hookswarmers.
24-32 might be a little rough and the reason I went with 16 although 20 might be better is that's the distance between hooks. On say small maps if you hook in middle of street 16 meters is still a good distance and same for larger maps. 20 meters is a good meeting point, not too far but not too little either.
The 20 meters is probably better because you can't game the distance by standing right behind another hook but it also still gives survivors a chance. The killer knows he can safely leave the hook area and go after someone in the distance.
The issue now is everyone swarms under the reading range due to all the issues with BBQ now where you don't have a gen facing the correct direction. You also get caught in the open area and you can't really hide and saying change directions is fine except when the killer can run right to you before you get out of the area.
I've tried hiding behind gens as the killer mains all say and killers will tell em they can see my outline plain as day post game because the gen aura didn't cover me. If you manage to hide behind the gen well guess what the killer is going to come straight to the gens not powered.
Because saying just change directions doesn't work on certain killer, especially wide open maps like the hated cornfields. Billy says hi or even Auto Heaven where he can race across the map with ease.
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@KingB said:
@Powerbats that's still only 16 meters. Just because it's a hard aura reading doesn't mean it is good. Nurses Calling is 28m. 16 meters is such a small distance. If it wasn't, boil over would be a good perk. I don't know the exact distance, but 16m is laughable. It's not broken now. Rarely ever is there a straight path to a survivor. Even then killer has to charge ability, and they don't get there instantly (except nurse with distance add-ons). I saw that, you get what 1 second? That's also insanely small. This is such a massive nerf to an already balanced perk.16 was in mind but 20 is better but 28 is way too much in close and the distance one is 2 seconds but not a hard reading but more a general location like the Doctors screams. With a general location 2 seconds is ok but perhaps 3 but again high mobility killers can get there too easy.
You keep saying massive nerf but don't look at the overall benefits to what you can do. .If you don't have to patrol camp if you know for a fact no ones within say 20 meters of the hook.
24 meters is make your choice range and also M&A range for a camping killer.
You'd also still get distance reading but it would last less time for a exact location or more time for a general location.
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That wouldnt happen with my 3 swfs group, we take care of randomsVietfox said:
@ChesterTheMolesterChesterTheMolester said:I had a similar idea but got bashed for it.
But yes reverse the effect, reveal all auras within like 24-32m for 4 seconds. It would still serve the same purpose, save Killers time, and most importantly scare the ######### out of overaltruistic survivors and hookswarmers.
As a survivor main i would love to have something to punish hookswarmers.
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@Powerbats that's a nerf. How can you phrase it otherwise? You don't get the hard aura reading and it's for less time? Ok cool, I know that no one is within 20 meters. Except current BBQ does that but to a lesser extent. If I don't see 3 auras I can assume someone is close by. Most of the time there isn't a direct path. This is in spite of the fact BBQ is fine now.0
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@KingB said:
@Powerbats that's a nerf. How can you phrase it otherwise? You don't get the hard aura reading and it's for less time? Ok cool, I know that no one is within 20 meters. Except current BBQ does that but to a lesser extent. If I don't see 3 auras I can assume someone is close by. Most of the time there isn't a direct path. This is in spite of the fact BBQ is fine now.How does it tell you if no one is close now when you just said earlier that you can hide behind gens just fine? It doesn't tell you someone is close or not, it just tells you that you can't see anyone. You can assume someone is close but that doesn't mean they are especially given as you said they could be hiding behind a gen.
You get 4 seconds of hard aura reading within that 16-20 meters or so and then 2 seconds of location based like Doctors screams or even 4 since it'll be a general area.
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^This. Vote up.ChesterTheMolester said:I had a similar idea but got bashed for it.
But yes reverse the effect, reveal all auras within like 24-32m for 4 seconds. It would still serve the same purpose, make better decisions, save Killers time, and most importantly punish and scare the ######### out of overaltruistic survivors and hookswarmers.0 -
@Powerbats hiding behind gens is one of the counters to BBQ that takes more skill. It's rare to see all 4 survivors do it. I'm perfectly fine with making Gen auras thicker. I worded that wrong, it doesn't explicitly tell you but it can be reasonably assumed. I understand that, but that is still weak.0
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@KingB said:
@Powerbats hiding behind gens is one of the counters to BBQ that takes more skill. It's rare to see all 4 survivors do it. I'm perfectly fine with making Gen auras thicker. I worded that wrong, it doesn't explicitly tell you but it can be reasonably assumed. I understand that, but that is still weak.I've been perfectly behind a gen while I can clearly see someone in the distance in the ope to the killer but the killer comes right to me. It wasn't even a case of angles either I was dead center and crouched with Claudette and post game killer said they saw my auras a few times.
I've hooked people and seen people behind a gen as well and having a slightly larger gen aura would be nice.
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@Powerbats were you on the closest gen? I've seen them behind a gen, it's definitely a counter that takes quite a bit of skill. I fully advocate having thicker gen auras.0
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@KingB said:
@Powerbats were you on the closest gen? I've seen them behind a gen, it's definitely a counter that takes quite a bit of skill. I fully advocate having thicker gen auras.Actually I've been on gens with different distances before and thicker auras might help but then the killer still assumes someones close and camps.
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@Powerbats then Gen rush. I rarely ever see unprovoked camping because it's a terrible strategy. I hate camping just as much as the next person. I usually suicide on the hook. But it's not effective. If a killer hard camps there's no reason you shouldn't get at least 3 gens done.0
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@KingB said:
@Powerbats then Gen rush. I rarely ever see unprovoked camping because it's a terrible strategy. I hate camping just as much as the next person. I usually suicide on the hook. But it's not effective. If a killer hard camps there's no reason you shouldn't get at least 3 gens done.I'm referring to the soft camping also known as patrol camping when teh killer doesn't see any auras like I could be right at 28 meters while the other 2 are perfectly hidden. The killer then patrols around the immediate hook area always unde the 16-20 meter range.
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