The Amanda's Letter add-on for The Pig has been Kill Switched due to an issue with incorrect RBT count.
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Killers how are you feeling about tunnelling?
I'm opening this topic to understand our friends who play the other role. So i am asking killer mains. But survivor mains also can answer. Different opinions will give us different perceptions. Next time i will open different topic for killers problem and i will ask survivors mains but today lets talk about tunnel and camp.
How are you feeling about tunnelling and camping when you play survivor? And when you get tunnel one after another. Do you feeling mad to that killers or just respecting him tactic and gameplay?
Comments
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I feel bad. I did it once. Never again.
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Question is when you play survivor and if killer is tunnelling you how you are feeling. I think you get it wrong or i asked wrong. 😶
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I don't get mad if they do either it's just a video game after all so I try not to take it personally.
If I play killer whether I do either is based on the match, if it's a bunch of solos who are slow on gens then I know I've got time to play nice and I won't do it. However if it's a decent team who are powering through the gens then all bets are off, if you're going to do your objective as fast as you can then I'm going to do the same.
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Is it weird to find it beneath me?
Like, I pride myself on playing well without scummy tactics. I look down in the people that tunnel and camp, so I obviously don't do them myself, you know?
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First off I see camping and tunneling as VERY broad terms the survivors like to scream when they get out played. There is no rule against it just like there isn't a rule that says you shouldn't gen rush. 90% of complaints can be summed up with "You lost, deal with it". If a survivor is on dead hook, injured and they just touched a gen. Yes of course I am going to tunnel them because it's whats best for my objective. If I was in the survivors position I expect the killer to do the same to me.
If I see a killer face camping me on my first hook I feel pity and hate. Pity that the killer is one day going to realize that only works on bad survivors. Eventually they will run into survivors with brains in their heads and they will learn the hard way how this game is really played. Then hate at my teammates for falling for it. I even run Kindred when I solo for this very reason and they still don't do gens!
When I'm being tunneled it depends. If I am injured and have no DS/BT id do the exact same thing. If it's the best way to achieve their objective I do not hate them for tunneling me. Now if I am being the only one chased the entire match I'm a bit angry yet also I feel bad for that killer. If he is wasting his entire time chasing me and everyone else is repairing gens uninterrupted. I feel angry I didn't get to play but at the same time I feel I get the last laugh because again, the killer is playing poorly.
TLDR. Often I ask myself would I do the same in their position? If I am being tunneled/face camped I don't feel bad so long as my teammates are making use of my sacrifice.
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But yeah, if I get facecamped I'll just be like, "Really bro?", but I'm not really mad unless my teammates throw the game.
As for tunneling, I never get mad about it. I like getting tunneled. At least I get around 5 minutes of chase interaction.
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Even though I personally try to avoid tunneling as killer, I still fully respect it as a valid tactic when I'm playing survivor and see other killers doing it and I have zero problem with being tunneled myself. I will probably get pissed at my team if I'm being tunneled and they aren't doing gens though. I just don't do it because in most cases its not the best play to make and for another survivors hate it anyways so why even bother?
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I do it all the time as Killer, but only if it works. It's just better for me to make the game a 3v1 ASAP.
As for Survivor, I know that I'm either the weakest link or I'm the biggest threat, so I take pride in the latter and try to be better if its the former.
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oh from a survivor pov I just say ######### it and move on.
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I wanna answer for myself too.
When i get tunnel, i feel mad if i was not toxic to killer. But i am not insulting them in end game chat. Because i know that is game. I will get better games, i just had one bad game but also i wasted their so much time.
And sometimes being nice is working. So many times, killers who tunnelling me said sorry for being tunneller. I said "It is okey, you were just trying win the game." Because i am not insulting them because of match.
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Depends. Am I getting tunneled because it's necessary or just because the killer wants to do it?
Listen. People can play how they want, and I encourage that. But if you tunnel/camp me at 5 gens, I find it distasteful. Does that mean I'm going to be toxic and tell the killer to die after the game ends (like some people do)? No. I take it with a grain of salt and move on, but nonetheless think it's overkill.
Now.. are you tunneling/camping me because the game is coming to a close/and or I looped you well? Then so be it. Tunneling and camping can be the difference between the win and a loss in some situations so I wouldn't get mad at all. You gotta do what you gotta do.
Same goes for when I play killer. I usually only do it if it's necessary (or if a certain somebody decided to tbag/click at me the entire game..😉)
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"tunneling" doesn't really have a definition that everyone agrees with. So, for me, tunneling is specifically targeting a survivor to put them out of the game. Personally, many survivors randomly accuse of tunneling, and what I learned is that they rarely care about the reason. For example, if there is a survivor with a key, or a survivor that constantly appears in front of me, then you, as a killer, don't really have a choice but to put them out of the game. Unless you intentionally ignore them, which you can as a killer, but don't expect that the survivors will show you mercy.
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As unfortunate as it is, it's part of the game, so I've just learned to not be bothered by it. It sucks, but I move on to the next game with a better mood. When I play killer, on the other hand, I make it a goal to make sure I don't tunnel. Sometimes I may need to if I am losing a tremendous amount of pressure. I don't like to tunnel, but that's my only exception.
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Well, I only played survivor once and it was back in 2016, so I fear I cannot answer these questions.
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If i encounter little shits, ill bring out my shovel
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I don't do it as killer. I don't get mad though if a killer does it - not my playstyle, but to each their own.
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I consider it justified when it happens to me, just makes sense to capitalize on the opportunity.
As killer, just don't sandbag in front of me. I'm not gonna make things harder on myself due to bad altruism.
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As killer I never tunnel because of trying hard or ruining survivor expirience.
I can tunnel if I don't see any other option. For expample, if I get back to hook and only survivor I see is one that was recetnly have been hooked.
I always go for closer target or target that have gone to dead zone. Sometimes it's a recently unhooked person.
I don't ignore unhooked survivor just to make myself look good in survivor's eyes. I can chase recently unhooked survivor if I need to. But it's never my primary goal to tunnel someone out of the game as soon as possible. I will chase whoever I find and I don't care about who was hooked last.
If I tunnel you... well, unlucky. But it's not because I don't respect you. You may leave a -rep in my steam profile if it make you feel better.
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My thoughts on it is that as a competitive gamer I will take actions that are the best strategic choice. That doesn't mean that I go into a match to camp or tunnel, but when that becomes the obvious best play it's the one I'm going to take.
Now I also feel that BHVR needs to introduce base mechanics that don't put me into the position where I have to play badly to give other survivors a good game. There are ways to change the base mechanics to incentivize healthy gameplay.
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I don't want to do it, but with the way the game is with spawns and gen speeds, i am basically forced to tunnel or camp against good teams and hope they are overly altruistic.
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As a survivor I hate the feeling of being in a match and not getting to do anything if I get tunneled after I pop a gen fair enough I'm actually a threat but to tunnel me as soon as I spawned in is in my opinion pathetic same with camping. Will I complain yes do I see it as a tactic of course I do I've done it myself to eradicate the best gen rusher or the worst looper
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I think it's scummy. I try not to do it when I play killer.
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It can be viewed as playing smart or playing scummy. I just think it's the band-aid fix killers have to use to make up for bad game design.
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As a survivor it really doesn't bother me. I understand that it is the most efficient tactic in the game due to the games design, and that's not the killers fault.
I see it on the same level as survivors focusing gens, which is done in every match unless you get immersed/potato survivors. Both are annoying for the other side, but both are the optimal way to win. I blame the game design/balance more than the players.
As for camping, I don't get bothered by the camp, I get bothered by my teammates not taking the free win and doing the gens while I'm camped. Like if I'm going to hang here and do nothing at least make it worth my time.
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I feel that countering Tunneling (if/when it happens) is the responsibility of the Survivors. I play both roles, about equally. When I have teammates that do safe rescues, bring anti-tunnel Perks, take protection hits, sabotage hooks, steal chases, do shoulder rescues, and even trade hooks I find that I get tunneled very rarely. This used to happen a lot more than it does now. The Solo Queue has been denuded of Players that understand this (mostly going into SWF) and thus we are left with an situation where you cannot count on your teammates. It is a negative feedback loop where more and more it is "every Survivor for themselves" and that is a slow death against any Killer. The problem isn't the tactic, but rather a lack of response on the other side.
When it comes to the tactics themselves (Tunneling, Camping, etc.), they happen a lot less frequently than those complaining about them imply. Moreover, the option for them to happen must exist. Dead by Daylight is a very simple game. If it were dumbed down anymore, reduced entirely to looping (for example) it would die. It would become boring. So as frustrating as it may be to be tunneled or camped now and then, it is the variety of things a Killer might do which keep the game from being ritualistic and entirely predictable. Consider what would happen if we did find a way to remove those tactics entirely. The game would be nothing but looping and hide and seek. *The hide and seek part being largely moot given the number of ways you can be revealed even when you do it right.
Thus, in a pure chase/looping game there are only so many "moves" to make. Every chase would be a replay of dancing around the terrain in an attrition play over and over again. It would not hold interest very long. Choices, even frustration ones, are what allow Player agency and variety. If anything we need more potential choices, not less. Thus the solution to this problem (if it is a problem) already exists. Survivors just need to get "Old School" and back to basics. The Killers are just doing what they have ALWAYS done. It is the response that changed.
Post edited by Moundshroud on1 -
I get annoyed if the killer does it early on. Especially if someone gets hooked at 5 gens, the killer is chasing someone else and leaves chase to go back to the hook and tunnel. It is usually unnecessary to tunnel that early. If it happens later on when there are only 1 or 2 gens, I get why it happens.
I just played a killer match against a 4 man swf (they were all on steam and I checked their friends list) running three flashlights. I was doing the hook the obsession 4 times challenge so I was running Make your Choice and Furtive Chase so I was going back to get the person that saved as they were usually my new obsession. The ones just unhooked would stand there and try to flashlight blind me. So I would down them and if the person that made the save ran off, I would pick them up and hook them. I also had 1 on the hook, went somewhere else and was chasing another, The person got unhooked and ran over to where I was chasing the other. They crouched, waiting for me to down and pick up the other so they could try to get a flashlight save. I saw them and went after them and downed them.
At the end of the match, they were so mad that I tunneled. I guess they thought I should have just ignored the fact they were trying to blind me and let them do it. And because I didn't, I was a dirty tunneler. A lot of times, survivors try stupid things that cause the tunneling.
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Sometimes it's the smart thing to do. Sometimes not.
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You gotta do what you gotta do to win sometimes...
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As someone who plays both sides. I dont mind it. Hell i understand it. Does it suck when it happens to me? Yea. But killers need to kill. And i feel like surv mains should get over themselves about it. Or get better at being chased.
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Depends if we talking about "tunnelling" or real tunnelling
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In DBD, the main killer skill isn't efficient looping (though that helps). Much like with survivor, those moment to moment loop decisions have a very low skill ceiling and don't actually provide that much longevity to the game.
The actual skill behind killer is time management, and applying pressure. Pretty much the entire killer meta is giving survivors something to think about other than committing to a gen. Likewise, on the survivor side loops are a bit more fun but ultimately good survivor play is forcing the killer to think about something other than tunneling a player down.
As such, if you actually, unironically complain about 'tunneling' your... kinda a bad player? At least, if you blame the killer for tunneling.
You notice this if you watch good players stream. When they get tunneled, they don't go 'dogshit killer tunneling me.' They get mad at their TEAMMATES because its not the killer's fault for playing well. It isn't the killer's job to mediate your experience. Because the entire skill aspect of DBD is meta strategy and trying to keep your opponent off balance, you can't demand the killer to it to themselves anymore than you can demand a tennis player not position to chase the ball for a return: It undermines the entire experience.
'Tunneling' generally occurs when the survivors are not correctly applying pressure or are being extremely sloppy with rescues. A good rule of thumb is you don't go for the rescue until you confirm the killer is not near the hook, and you ensure people are doing gens non-stop to ensure that even if the killer doubles back on rescue for an easy down they lose so much pressure they lose the entire game. If the killer spots you near the hook, don't sit there like an idiot.
And for the love of god don't loop the killer near the hook.
Will some killers still tunnel through this counterplay? Yeah. Will that not be a super fun game? Sure. But it isn't the game designer's goal to make sure nothing bad can ever happen ever. Killers who do this incorrectly should naturally derank and it shouldn't be a problem at any respectable rank. It is a really common issue in most games where if someone refuses to adapt to counterplay the game is boring for both sides. But those games don't burn down their entire design to avoid that, they just ensure they have good ranking systems so people refusing to do anything besides Photon Canon Rush every game will de-rank, rather than banning any highly counterable strategies that create boring 'cheesy' games because they tend to be important for other parts of the game. And Killers being able to tunnel is SO ABSURDLY IMPORTANT FOR DBD.
The killer legitimately does not have time to 12 hook the survivors never eliminating a player until everyone is on death hook. The MINIMUM time it takes to do that assuming the survivors just run straight forward is some odd 8 minutes, ignoring hook travel time (which is such a relevant mechanic its literally why slugging is considered the pressure play as opposed to hooking, slugging disables survivors longer than an unprotected hook and doesn't cost the KILLER time). 3 survivors (assuming the killer has 100% chase uptime) can do 5 gens in about 2 minutes, again assuming no gen travel distance. The time disparity here is... super obviously extreme, and it makes it extremely clear the killer is not intended to avoid taking advantage of bad survivor play.
Its... also a really obvious intentional game design feature that survivors who get caught are easier to get caught again? Injury noises are a thing. Blood trails are a thing. It wouldn't be hard for an unhook to result in an instant heal, or the survivor teleporting across the map. But they didn't do that because tunneling is intended behavior.
And this isn't just inference based on mechanics. In the beta dev diaries they literally talked about tunneling and the killer exploiting the psychology of altruism as one of their main strategies.
Of course, this is also more a problem with solo play, as there is no in game communication or way to share information or coordinate rescues (which involves, contrary to what a lot of terrible SWFs think, not charging at the hook with all 3 people, ezpz win, but timing it so you start popping gens really fast so the killer gets nervous and leaves), but, again, that isn't the killer's fault.
Part of how competitive games work (And while DBD isn't a 'competitive gaming' game, it is competitive) is that they default towards requiring optimal play. The killer does not really have the luxury to be 'nice' until they are willing so hard that its sorta mean to not just end the game. BOTH sides have to assume the other side is bringing their A-game, and while its valid to play more casually, you can't demand the other side does as well when you have no prior relationship and your in a prisoner's dilemma situation where the killer knows if they bring a goofy killer with a goofy strat and don't sweat at hooks they risk just losing the game in 4 minutes vs an uncoordinated but serious group of solos.
Essentially? Calling tunneling out as a survivor is an egocentric problem that pins the blame on what is happening to you on the one person who has no responsibilities towards your experience at all, and causes you to delude yourself into being a worse player because you imagine losing the killer or the killer not chasing you is something your entitled to. But that is a scrub mentality. Complaining about tunneling is like complaining about getting thrown in Street Fighter because you clearly can't throw tech or counter and are just turtling: it isn't on your opponent to ignore the fact there is a super obvious way to beat you just because you don't like that happening.
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I generaly do not do it.
Camping is no fun for me as I want to chase survivors. The only occasion when I camp is if I have a survivor on the hook, its an open area and the exit is open. Not camping would be equal to just surrender as they would get the save and run to the gate with just a few protection hits. If I have a decent chance to intercept the rescue I go for it without camping but sometimes it is just the only reasonable play.
I think no survivor wants to face a killer that plays dumb on purpose more than once a day. As such I do camp here and I understand if a killer does the some.
Also if I get a good 3-gen and hook the survivor in the middle I will patrol there too. I do not go out of my way to hook the survivor on a far away hook while risking an easy rescue and loosing the game on purpose.
As for tunneling: I only do it when there is no better play or if the survivor challenges me.
If I run Ghostface and the guy breaks me out of stealth then I go for him. I can not just ignor this because I had hooked that guy just a few moments ago. Do not reveal me and I will go for somebody else.
If I go back to the hook and the Survivor runs directly into me to take a Borrow Time hit then I will chase him. Sometimes I wait out Borrow Time and then down him. I will not ignor you if you runs straight at me.
And if you clicker your Flashlight at me then this is an invitation to a chase. I take it sometimes even if I hooked you befor. You asked for it. If you point at me or t-bag, then I will go for you. You asked for the heat, you get the heat.
And finaly: If your team throws you under the bus by unhooking you and not taking my aggro. If they go into hiding or heal you under to hook and Sprintburst away to a safe loop while leaving you at an unsafe one, then I will go for you. I will not play suboptimal here just because your team refuses to take some heat.
These are the occasions where I will tunnle.
I do both when it suits the situation. But I will not go into a game and just think: You know that one survivor there? I will tunnle her down! I like running BBQ so I need at least hook everybody once. It is a mini challenge each game for me to do so and get max stacks and this forces me to not tunnle or camp as I can not complete this challenge with camping or tunneling.
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I understand why killers do it. I've never messaged any killer and complained about it.
But I don't enjoy it, it feels crappy. A lot of times I'll say to my TV, "Dude, really?" I often don't want to be playing survivor in the first place, I'll be doing it for a Tome challenge or something, and I play solo, so when matches aren't fun they feel super miserable. Especially since I don't really care about escaping, I just want a chance to participate and play the game, and when I get tunneled out right away... that's not a game. Why did I even need to be there for that? I didn't get to do anything, shove in an empty husk and put me in a match where I get a chance to actually participate.
Again, I understand that it's a tactic and I've never given anyone crap about how they played. My feelings are about my own experience. I move on to the next match, but if I'm having an unlucky day and I get tunneled out a bunch I'll turn off the game and play something else.
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^ basically this.
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A necessary evil caused by the game's design. The quicker a killer can get someone out of the game, the fewer people to work the remaining gens, get rescues, perform heals, etc. If he wants to win against a competent team, it's practically required to focus one or two people while pressuring the rest when he can. I don't blame them one bit.
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Obviously you are a bad player if you can’t win without tunneling. Easiest thing in the game man this is why there are so many trash killers at rank 1
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I mean. I myself don't tunnel because it's extremely boring. But I don't mind if others tunnel IF they have a good reason for it. But because I'm red rank, no one tunnel because for a good reason. The majority of them just like to be #########.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Oh just remembered. Yesterday I had a match against a rank 1 who tunneled at 5 gens. Basically, I got downed at 5 gens and the first generator got done like 3 seconds after I got unhooked. He ignores everyone else and goes for me. The chase goes on for another 2 gens, and once he downs me, I decided to not use my DS, because I already knew I would escape.
While I'm hanging on the hook, I have my own Freddy hitting me for some reason, and the last 2 gens get done. I'm looking at my teammates and one is opening the gate and 2 are coming for the save. I get unhooked with BT and because I saw where everyone while I was on the hook, I knew where the gate was. So take the hit with BT and then run away. He managed to down me at the gate and he picks me up. And there's my DS. Smooth escape lol
And then in the endgame chat. I was apparently a trash survivor with no skills and DS was the most broken perk in the game. And I was like, "Bruh, you were only going for my ass the whole game. But yea sure, whatever you say Miss Gurl".
Why is it always the Rank 1 gamers?
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