Removing the option of Camping

I mean no, it's not designed for that, as the people who designed it have said tunelling and camping are fine, and the games base rules have a way for you to die in one hook. Like it's okay to not like camping(I don't like it either and have pitched many ideas for discouraging/fixing it). But you have to stop pretending it's some objective evil and anyone who does it under any circumstance is a skilless hack torturing the poor innocent survivors.

This never works unless it's a 4 man SWF. Each phase is 1 minute and solo gens take 80s, so best case they each finish one gen and get less than half on a second gen. But what happens if it's not a SWF or the hooked person doesn't have Kindred? People are going to waste tons of time finding out that the killer is facecamping. Again, "best case" they realize it and go back to gens. However, most people are too altruistic and/or see it as a challenge. I have almost 1k hours played and in solo queue I'm not sure I've ever seen everyone ignore the hook in a facecamp situation, but people keep acting like this is a realistic solution.

Killers do have many ways of stopping people from doing generators, like attacking them. How would you feel if you couldn't attack a survivor that's repairing unless you had a perk to do so? Would that be fair? That's the equivalent here.

Killer mains throw around the phrase "gen rushing" like it's some toxic thing. Repairing gens is literally the main objective for them. Hooking survivors is the main objective of the killer. Facecamping isn't doing that. You want them to get negative points for repairing gens? I don't even understand your logic here. Survivors that only do gens won't score very high because they need other things in order to get points. Meanwhile, facecampers will do quite well in points.Killers always do well in points. I played a match the other day that had a terrible killer who onyl got 1 hook. He almost outscored our whole team doing it. That's why I don't get this toxic facecamping and tunneling. Are killer mains really so fragile they need 4k's for any validation at all? Facecamp the first hook and that survivor not only doesn't get to have any fun and play the game, but they get 3k points.

There is absolutely nothing survivors can do to hold the game hostage in such a boring and toxic way that killers can. And again, back to the points thing, there is nothing survivors can do to make the killer get ~3k points in a game unless it's toxic 4 man SWF smurfs beating up on a brand new rank 20 by stealthing all game and still doing 5 gens.

I don't like people being toxic on either side and I will happily sandbag people who are teabagging, clicking, etc. But with the exception of people not leaving, that is not affecting the game at all. You just need to learn to let that stuff go. Or if they are complete jerks, then they earned a facecamp. But that's not usually the case, usually killers facecamp just because that's what they do. Many people are toxic and want to teabag at the exit, but many times people are just waiting there to see if they need to save anyone that's not with them, or maybe give some extra hits to the killer. I understand your frustration but again, you can at least chase them out. You have an option that doesn't rely on perks.

How is it not an objective evil? The person on hook has the ability to play and enjoy the game taken away and their only outplay is to "never get caught?"

It's an anti-fun mechanic. I don't care about it's effect on my ability to win, I play the game to have fun. And if I happen to get caught early that shouldn't be a forfeiture of my ability to enjoy the game. Even if it's not me that gets camped, I get pissed off because they took away someone else's enjoyment of the game. Who wants to wait in 10 min queues to have a minute of game time before getting camped to death? How is that not objectively evil to take away the ability to play the game. It's not about skill, it's not about getting outplayed. They just sit there and ruin people's experience. And for the other 3 people not hooked, they aren't having fun either. They get t hold down M1 for a while then leave. That's not any fun either.

It's like people who cheat and they justify it because they "win." They didn't do anything, how is that even satisfying?

The difference is completing generators is the survivors objective. Camping is not the killer's objective. How are you possibly comparing the two? The best way to get kills is to actually go after people and kill them.

It's not objectively evil because the game doesn't teach people not to do it, and it's not even always strategically always wrong too do it. ESPECIALLY for new players, you come in and you have all your garbagy starting killer perks, and you hook someone. Are you evil for sticking around? Why wouldn't you, you don't know the maps super well yet, you don't have BBQ telling you where people far away are, the only real information you have is I have on 1/4 survivors here, and 1/4 survivors should come to save them, my odds of finding someone or getting a kill is way higher by sticking around than wandering around the map.

What if I've got two tight gens that are degrading, and i have someone hooked near them, am i OBJECTIVELY EVIL if i protect htose two gens and a hooked person?

What if I hook someone and I see no one when i make the hook so i know people are around, should I leave to nowhere or should i stay close to hook to find the other survivors? what if they don't show their faces?

I don't disagree that there are some amount of people who take perverse joy out of just sitting on one person and giving them a bad game. Unfortunately there are no solutions that make it impossible for that to happen without wrecking a whole bunch of other much more valid playstyles and reasons to be near a hook. You have to live in this game with the fact that there's some amount of player crappiness you won't be able to get rid of completely, that will mitigate the problem in the healthiest way possible.

All the killer mains here are telling me that the solution is to just do 5 gens while they facecamp and the other 3 will escape. But then they also tell me that this is a realistic strategy for the killer's goal of kill everyone. Which one is it?

They statements can be true at the same time.

How do 3 people both escape and die at the same time?

You just constantly talked about gen rush and claimed the old mori's weren't toxic. I've literally seen the game ended in under a minute with the old moris. You can't even understand why camping is toxic. You're not saying it's toxic but I think it's ok. You're literally saying ruining someone's ability to play a game is somehow not toxic. You think taking away the ability for 1 person to even play the game is OK because you want to win at all costs. This is a game. It should be about fun. There is nothing on the line.

Please define gen rush and tell me why it's so toxic and unstoppable.

And that's frustrating - I hate it and feel pressured when that happens as a killer, but that's beyond survivor's control. They're just doing their objective and working with the placement they were given. There are things that can be implemented to prevent this. Don't spawn survivors within x distance, or don't spread them out so much. I'd even be OK with having something like corrupt (maybe lower duration) baseline. Even with that, I've still had plenty of fun games as killer after that point. While that's a terrible start, the game gets much harder with 4 gens left and isn't impossible to come back from.

On the flipside, camping is 100% within the killers control and ruins the hooked survivor's game. The team can recover, but that person can't. Again, my problem with it is not winning but rather enjoyment.

Too often people get super defensive and never really want to have a real discussion. They deflect and complain about all this other stuff. For once I would just like to see people actually talking about the topic without saying "well what about this?". I'm not saying there aren't other problems for either side that need to be solved, but I'm here to talk about camping.

@flawedspecies I think i have pitched my ideas in every single thread like this, i even made my own thread so i could just link it as opposed to retyping, and it's pretty rare i get any responses. and if you don'ot want people to get defensive you can't lead your posts by constantly calling killers skilless and toxic(even if you only mean/specify ones who camp). I guarentee most instances of camping or tunneling are not people cacklign about how bad of a time they are giving the survivoir.

The short version of my suggestion is, give the camped survivor BP based on how well the team does over all, buff kindred to give bp at similar levels to BBQ, and auto unlock BBQ and Kindred for all killers/survivoirs, and early game(first 20 account levels or whatever a reasonable number is) auto unlock the 4th perk slot but force BBQ/Kindred to stay in that slot.

i'll link my full pitch if anyone wants the more indepth stuff for it.

How do 3 people both escape and die at the same time? Dunno what you're on about. I'm talking about what you said:

"All the killer mains here are telling me that the solution is to just do 5 gens while they facecamp and the other 3 will escape. But then they also tell me that this is a realistic strategy for the killer's goal of kill everyone. Which one is it?"

Doing the gens while a survivor is being camped often leaves the killer with only that 1 kill, since said killer is no longer defending gens. When killers say that it's a strategy to kill everyone, they often refer to a type of camping that involves very altruistic survivors who the killer takes advantage of. There are pros and cons to camping and an experienced killer will know when to do it to shift the match in their favor. An inexperienced killer will simply camp in the worst way possible and lose any advantage.

That is what I mean when both statements can be true when you said:

"All the killer mains here are telling me that the solution is to just do 5 gens while they facecamp and the other 3 will escape. But then they also tell me that this is a realistic strategy for the killer's goal of kill everyone."

This comment is such a joke, instead of actually giving us a point for you ######### idea, you're just like "hur dur killers will never understand." You ae such a joke. If you can't handle criticism for your ideas, please don't post them on the internet and grow up.

Camping is pretty much useless against a good swf:D especially in endgame.. Killers who camp the first person they see will lose 3 Gens in an instant and maybe even more.

borrowed time is a strong as perk, basically 2 out of 4 survs run it, DS is also strong against campers, not because it saves you from getting tunneled , because it gives your teammates more time to get the gens done. there should never be a perk or feature that punishes a killer for its playstyle.

Some People forget the whole purpose of the game is Sacrificing Survivors:D not every body plays it fair. but why should they.

i also get tunneled and camped alot as surv when i play with my swf, but i sometimes think about why they do it. if the swf is bad the will all go for the rescue immediatly leaving the gens untouched, with ruin in play that opens opportunities get a hit on basically everyone slow the game down even more. Those are Strats that some Killers use.

i dont like killers who do it, but i dont blame them. its a Strat and it works for them, most of the time get de pips, so they stay on ranks 5-10:)

Instead of camping killers, they should focus on the broken as keys that are in the game for years^^

Okay, but then all development of the game should cease, because 'survivors will just abuse it'.

Just digging in your heels and refusing to fix anything just because it's tricky is pointless.

Do you know how inconsistent these standpoints are?

Killer brings NOED: 'just stop genrushing and do totems'

Killer camps: 'just genrush'

So what if the killer has both, then? Not to mention how much killers (rightfully) hate genrushing, but hey, I guess it's all fine and dandy because for some godforsaken reason, we need to do our utmost to protect what is the absolute worst thing about this game.

'Just bring an anticamp build!'

'Why do survivors always bring the same loadout? I'm sick of seeing UB, BT, DS all the time!'

Literally every counterargument against camping comes down to 'just make the game worse'.

And, again, you know that problem with gen speeds being too fast? Can't be addressed as long as camping exists.

You put the blinders on, call it 'easy to counter', you refuse to look at anything else. You don't care about the overall impact on the rest of the game, you don't care about its impact on how enjoyable the game is.

Again, if every killer camped, this game would die in under a week. No matter how easy it is to counter.

If you know where it is. But you weren't scouting for it, since you have to genrush to punish camping.