Please do something to disincentivize tunneling and camping
The amount of toxic camping and tunneling is one of the most frequently discussed things. I feel like every Q&A stream you guys answer a question about it and your answer is usually something along the lines of "it's fine, just do gens." I really dislike that response because it simply doesn't match reality. In a full SWF, sure the killer will lose with 1 kill. But generally people don't have enough information to know the killer is doing or will do that. Even if they do, people's altruism is usually too high and they simply don't want killers to get away with it.
The number one reason I would like to see something done about this is it can literally ruin the match for at least 1 person. I don't care about the points, I don't care about "winning," I care about having fun. When I get camped and tunneled off of every hook, that is not fun. I don't have an interactive experience and I didn't have fun playing your game. Even if everyone else just does gens and lets that person die, are you really happy with the experience you gave that 1 person? Are you satisfied they just got 3k points and after losing 1 chase they didn't get to participate the rest of the match?
I'm not asking for a survivor buff, I'm not asking for baseline BT or DS or anything like that, but do something to actually punish players that do this. I feel there are two good ways to accomplish this: bloodpoints and possibly mechanics.
Nerfing bloodpoint gains for repeatedly hooking the same person in a short amount of time (possibly adjusted for # of remaining survivors) would be easy enough. Just don't reward the killer for that behavior. I was in a match the other day where my friend didn't have DS and was tunneled out of the game at 5 gens. He had 3k points and the killer was already at 15k. The killer got greatly rewarded for ruining my friend's experience and my friend got punished for losing one chase. And what could my friend do about it? Besides the unacceptable answer of "never get downed", nothing. He can't equip DS mid-game, he can't control being unhooked without BT, and he can't control people who simply wait out the new, lower BT timer.
Most killers that do this simply want to win, and the bloodpoint or possible emblem punishment simply won't be enough. I would love to see some game mechanic that also punish this behavior. I think it would be reasonable to have mechanics affecting the hook timer to encourage the killer to take a more active and less toxic role.
To disincentivize camping perhaps increase the hook timer if the killer is within X distance of the hook without any other survivors also being in that distance. The value of time can have a max value that decreases based on the number of generators left in the game. To disincentivize tunneling, if a player is hooked again within X seconds of being unhooked, increase or pause the hook timer (timing based on # of remaining survivors).
I think this gives the killer good enough reason not to use this behavior without giving too much of an advantage to survivors. I rarely see people, SWF or not, really try and wait till the last second to unhook. Generally people only wait when someone is getting camped hard.
Comments
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it is an old and difficult speech! I can think of many reasons why your solutions would not solve the problem: the most important is that the survivors would be using those possibilities in a toxic way!
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Ah yes the daily camping and tunnelling post right on schedule. 🙄
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Maybe it's right on schedule because it's a very real problem that isn't being addressed.
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After 5 years and daily complaints it's still in the game because it's a viable tactic in certain situations. It's never going to be removed from the game because of that reason, plus I don't fancy my survivor queue time going even higher with more killers quitting because they're forced to play in a way that survivors class as "fair" and "fun" for them.
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They are valid tactics, and every idea suggested by salty survivors has either been abuseable, made out of pure spite, or would remove so much Killer player agency that it would basically give Survivors free, unearned unhooks & cost Killers the game for things now outside their control.
Then Killers would leave because there's no point in playing a game that forces you to play sub-optimally to avoid hurting your opponent's feelings, and Survivor queues would double.
The Survivors who whinged about 'toxic camping' would then sit on their thumbs, wondering why the game died, because they are having a great time with their easy escapes & free unhooks.
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The problem with camping is actively hurting the game from adoption because tunnelling and camping is much more common at lower ranks. People are leaving early and this is happening now, the damage is real and is happening now.
It doesn't matter if there is a way to counter these strategies if the group that needs the assistance against these strategies will never see them.
And your claims of mass exodus of killers has no supporting evidence and is purely anecdotal.
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'It doesn't matter if there is a way to counter these strategies if the group that needs the assistance against these strategies will never see them.'
So, basically, you want the tactics removed, even though you KNOW there are ways to counter them, because new players will be too lazy to look up ways to counter them?
Basically 'Remove camping, because learning how to play is too hard'?
And your claims of people leaving because 'boo-hoo, camping is so mean and Killers should be forced to be nice!' is just as much bunk as my claim.
Actually, your claim is MORE bunk, because the game has survived 5 years with camping, tunneling, and slugging. And common sense would dictate that, should you remove three of a Killer players tools in any way Survivors can benefit from or worse, ABUSE; people won't want to play Killer any more.
I mean, unless you're just ignoring the longer queue times for Survivors right now? You know, caused by Killers leaving because their role, the POWER ROLE, is being given the middle finger in repeated updates until just recently?
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An easily abusable strategy should be easily counterable by survivors. All I want is for there to be an equal amount of work and skill required for both survivor and killer. Camping requires high level team work from survivors to overcome right now.
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That's because there's ONE KILLER. That ONE KILLER needs to equal FOUR SURVIVORS. Hence why FOUR SURVIVORS (Or three, in this case) need to WORK TOGETHER to equal ONE KILLER.
That's how 1v4 PvP games work. If every Survivor was equal to the Killer in power, then there would be no point to playing Killer. I don't get why this seems strange to you.
1 Survivor should always lose against 1 Killer. Because 1 Killer = 4 Survivors.
Hence why it takes multiple Survivors to fight a Killer for an unhook.
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Yes you as killer should be powerful enough in chase to be able to down survivors and win the match. No the survivors should not be struggling to save another survivor from a hook because the killer is bubba who will one shot you eat the borrowed time while watching a movie on their second monitor.
What part of this do you not understand?
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What part of this do you not understand?
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Wait a second, I never once claimed that camping and tunneling aren't mechanics or that they should be removed. I simply said that they should be more difficult to pull off as killer.
Don't put words into my mouth
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How do you make them 'more difficult' without inventing mechanics Survivors can abuse?
Survivors already have perks to counter slugging, camping, and tunneling; they just don't want to switch out their precious META.
Killers already have perks that encourage laving the hook (Devour Hope, BBQ).
And yet Survivors keep stomping their feet and screeching that MORE should be done! And Killers should be PUNISHED! And camping/tunneling/slugging should be 'made harder' (or, as some have indeed said; removed).
Or that it's 'for the health of the game' while blatantly ignoring that you're removing a Killer player's agency, once you start dictating how they play.
Survivor keep making bad faith arguments about how Camping is 'OP', acting like they were FORCED to go for an unsafe unhook which, by the way, belies the mentality that they just want more free unhooks.
Or how they, and I quote one person 'went all the way across the map' so they deserve the unhook.
A Killer's job is. To. Kill. You. This removes you from the game. Start or end; why does it matter? His goal is not to pat you on the head. Asking for 'punishments' or 'harder whatevers' or 'removal' of CORE TACTICS flat-out makes it harder for the Killer to win.
And that seems to be a win/win, to most the screamers around here; free unhooks, easier matches. No need to think; the Killer is forced to not 'camp', so it's easy to unhook whenever the widdle Survivor mains want.
So I post the picture again; and be sure to read the underlined part:
What is so hard to understand about 'get used to it'?
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Again It's not that I'm not used to tunneling or camping (specifically face camping) It's that the strategy of staying in front of a survivor with an ability that prevents survivors from getting an unhook at all or immediately downing a recently unhooked survivor are both low risk high reward plays from killer where the survivors only counter is to allow the survivor to get sacrificed and to do generators. It's a low risk high reward strategy that rewards killers like..... well you. As you proudly admitted.
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Oh yeah... If the killer is staring the hooked person all survivors should bomb the hook trying to save. Not pummeling gens like always. C'mon, even insidous Bubbas lose to the basic "camping = free gen pressure/rush". And if you, by god, bring "solo queue" I'll just say that: You have 4 perk slots. 16 shared through all survivors. Just bring Kindred. I ran kindred 99% of the time and this perk can carry solo a game.
As for tunneling: BT, DS, UB, body blocking and if the killer still insists on tunneling after that just go and ram gens...
Yeah, lower ranks can be a nuisance since 90% of the matches is a tunneling/camping NOED fiesta, but as soon as you hit purples (greens too, 'cause of the really good matchmaking) hard tunneling/camping killers lose 90% of their matches.
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I think the biggest part of the problem is that survivors have a VERY viable strategy against campers that is not used enough. It's called Genrushing. The problem is, the survivor on the hook doesn't enjoy their game, so they let go and die, but that let's the killer do it to someone else. If a killer camps me, I want the others to finish four gens and have the fifth almost done by the time I die. It isn't complicated, you require no unlocked perks to do it, and it punishes the killer heavily. Everything survivors seem to want in this.
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People, including BHVR always suggest this like it's some insanely easy auto-win and that it's a realistic scenario. How often do you actually see this happen? I've played about 1k hours and the only times I've seen this is MAYBE vs a Bubba. But even then people are usually too atrustic to just "gen rush" and leave.
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Killers are already weaker than survivors, and always have been, can we give them a break once and realize how toxic Survivors are in comparison to the occasional camper? Yeah you can't play for 5 minutes but your teammates are nearly guaranteed a 3-man escape, meaning the Killer effectively lost. And the Killer most likely got nearly no bloodpoints, the only currency/objective of the game.
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