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Removing the option of Camping
Comments
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Yeah I agree or something should be done so that you don't loose pip points for getting camped because it's a little annoying when you loose pip points because some toxic 9 year old camped you on hook.
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That's...not how that works though and makes no sense...
By that logic then killers also need something done about gen rushing that doesn't rely on perks like Ruin or Pop. What do you think? Make it so that if survivors are just smashing gens and nothing else then they get minus points for it? Oh! I know, how about every time survivors flashlight spam then they bust the light bulb in the flashlight, essentially breaking the item? Or better yet, how about for every teabag the survivors do at exit gates, killers get an automatic Blood Warden effect where if a survivor is hit they can't exit and they now need to run out and lose the killer again? I mean their objective is to escape right? If you're out there dicking around and taunting the killer, then you're not doing your objective. Why are we rewarding such toxic behavior like that right?
So I'll tell you what. We can remove camping, force killers to just go out and chase survivors constantly, but then if survivors hang around exit gates and teabag or click spam, then we penalize them too. That sound like a fair tradeoff to you?
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That's...not how that works though and makes no sense...
By that logic then killers also need something done about gen rushing that doesn't rely on perks like Ruin or Pop. What do you think? Make it so that if survivors are just smashing gens and nothing else then they get minus points for it? Oh! I know, how about every time survivors flashlight spam then they bust the light bulb in the flashlight, essentially breaking the item? Or better yet, how about for every teabag the survivors do at exit gates, killers get an automatic Blood Warden effect where if a survivor is hit they can't exit and they now need to run out and lose the killer again? I mean their objective is to escape right? If you're out there dicking around and taunting the killer, then you're not really doing your objective. Why are we rewarding such toxic gameplay like that?
So I'll tell you what. We can remove camping, force killers to just go out and chase survivors constantly, but then if survivors hang around exit gates and teabag or click spam, then we penalize them too. That sound like a fair tradeoff to you?
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So then we can also do something about killer depips if survivors just gen rush and don't interact with the killer? I mean why should I have to suffer if the enemy team just rushes the game and essentially just whoops my ass?
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Well I mean if your good at playing killer then you shouldn't get gen rushed. Also doing generators is something survivors actually have to do to win the game sitting in front of a hook ruining one person's entire game just because they're good is not something you have to do it's something you choose to do because your bad at the game and put about as much skill into it as I do eating my breakfast. If your getting gen-rushed by sweaty survivors that's not their fault that's matchmaking's fault they're only trying to have fun playing the game just like you, so you shouldn't go out of your way to ruin their game because your salty.
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Yeah it does I have 0 respect for survivors that do any of those things and I only do them myself if the killer is toxic. If I see my team mate T-Bagging the killer I either leave him to die or I farm him because I don't respect it, without people playing killer I can't play survivor. I also have a lot of respect for killers because they have to deal with the unfair matchmaking system that BHVR designed. However if your a killer who uses NOED, if your a killer that face camps or if your a killer that tunnels please stop complaining every time a survivor clicks his flashlight, you were toxic towards them so they are gonna be toxic towards you.
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okay @Marik13 i know you were joking but
" Or better yet, how about for every teabag the survivors do at exit gates, killers get an automatic Blood Warden effect where if a survivor is hit they can't exit and they now need to run out and lose the killer again?"
sounds hilarious, make that an unseeable offering or something so they can't know it's a rule.
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So then you agree, gen rushing is not a thing and is just simply a matter of being outplayed. Just like how if you lose to a camping killer, I.E. a basement Bubba, then you all got outplayed as well? A killer can only win the game off of kills. So if you guys just tally-ho the basement knowing there's a camping Bubba then it sounds like you played the wrong tactic when you should've just done more gens or if you're the one who got caught by the Bubba then maybe you should've looped him better and you wouldn't have been caught and camped? =)
Just like how you don't care for the killer's feelings if he gets gen rushed, then why should the killer care about the person's feelings who's being camped? See, I can do this too and make dumb excuses for killer losses and depips, and point out cheap tactics on the other side. The difference is, when I get my ass destroyed by a 4 man SWF death squads, I don't come on here and cry about it. The most I've ever cried about is how broken matchmaking is, pairing me up at rank 12 against red ranks. That's about the extent of my crying, and then I go take a breathe, get over it and move on with my day. It's a game. Stuff happens and it's not always gonna make you feel nice, especially when it's a game that has PVP elements. So long as neither side is legit cheating, and if they're using what is available to them and everyone else in the game, then it's fair play.
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I think that's a little bit of an unfair response, literally the best killers in the game get gen rushed sometimes. If the survivors get spawned on opposite sides of the map and just all jump on gens it's REALLY hard to be able to do much about it if they are even half decent at looping. Also think it says a lot about the bias in your mindset when you phrase the issue as "survivor getting camped FOR being good" and the camper automatically being bad at the game. Nor is every killer who "camps" purposely going out to ruin anyone's game.
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Yes except the game is designed so that you get 3 chances on hook isn't it? If you don't patrol generators or use anti-gen-rush perks then that is on you, you were outplayed. Looping the killer for 15 minutes then getting knocked when every pallet on the map is gone or when your team mate gets in your way only to die on your first hook is not being outplayed your supposed to get 3 chances on hook unless everyone else is dead.
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Also I find it hilarious that you say NOED is toxic. Hahahaha. Right, so then I must be one of the most toxic players out there! So when I'm leveling a new killer who has no other perks to use, and I see NOED and use that, I'm suddenly being toxic? As if I had a choice of what perks pop up on the blood web. Trust me if I did, I'd have BBQ up on all my killers from as low as lvl 1 so I can farm those blood points. But sometimes, when you're leveling a trickster and you're lvl 13, with only two perk slots and nothing but trash perks. If it comes down to me having to pick between Deer Stalker or NOED, then guess what I'm going to use? Why should I handicap myself even further by playing a low level killer, and picking useless perks just to make survivors feel better?
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Yes! Finally, someone who gets it!
Honestly, this applies to both sides. You shouldn't be basically forced to bring anti-slug, anti-camp, or anti-tunnel perks as survivor and slowdown perks as killer. Weirdly enough, thinking about it, I'm not sure which side has it worse.
Survivors need more kinds of perks, but they have a more solid meta and most of the perks they need at the start are on the free survivors. Killers, however, almost need slowdown perks to function on a base level and need to buy pretty much all of them, but they only need to bring, like, one.
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Ah and there it is. So when that other guy said "This should never be a solution to something that's part of base gameplay. Perks should be there to amplify certain aspects of the game, not to make up for a lack of a built-in solution" in regards to perks, then that doesn't apply to killers and only applies to survivors? I dunno...that kinda sounds a bit biased and somewhat entitled to me.
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I mean no, it's not designed for that, as the people who designed it have said tunelling and camping are fine, and the games base rules have a way for you to die in one hook. Like it's okay to not like camping(I don't like it either and have pitched many ideas for discouraging/fixing it). But you have to stop pretending it's some objective evil and anyone who does it under any circumstance is a skilless hack torturing the poor innocent survivors.
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BT relies on your allies having it. While it's a super popular perk it's ridiculous to have to rely on your allies bringing this. If one person with it comes to save then it's a trade (at best) which still greatly benefits the camper. If multiple people come you have to rely on coordination and hoping the rescuer has BT. But even if this is successful the killer got some free hits and wasted tons of time. They still benefit greatly from camping.
DS is behind a paywall. I've played this game for almost 2 years and it hasn't been in the shrine. You shouldn't have to rely on a perk, especially a paid one, to counter something any killer can do at any time.
Unbreakable usually does little to help this. They won't be slugging, they're usually eager to get a new hook to camp.
This behavior is super unhealthy for the game. Even if you don't give gameplay counters for this, they need to stop rewarding the killers for it.
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This never works unless it's a 4 man SWF. Each phase is 1 minute and solo gens take 80s, so best case they each finish one gen and get less than half on a second gen. But what happens if it's not a SWF or the hooked person doesn't have Kindred? People are going to waste tons of time finding out that the killer is facecamping. Again, "best case" they realize it and go back to gens. However, most people are too altruistic and/or see it as a challenge. I have almost 1k hours played and in solo queue I'm not sure I've ever seen everyone ignore the hook in a facecamp situation, but people keep acting like this is a realistic solution.
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one of my pitches for a resolution to this problem is to give kindred BBQ and Chili levels of bonus blood points to heavily incentivize at least one survivor to run it. I don't think that's enough by itself but i think it'd be a big help
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Killers do have many ways of stopping people from doing generators, like attacking them. How would you feel if you couldn't attack a survivor that's repairing unless you had a perk to do so? Would that be fair? That's the equivalent here.
Killer mains throw around the phrase "gen rushing" like it's some toxic thing. Repairing gens is literally the main objective for them. Hooking survivors is the main objective of the killer. Facecamping isn't doing that. You want them to get negative points for repairing gens? I don't even understand your logic here. Survivors that only do gens won't score very high because they need other things in order to get points. Meanwhile, facecampers will do quite well in points.Killers always do well in points. I played a match the other day that had a terrible killer who onyl got 1 hook. He almost outscored our whole team doing it. That's why I don't get this toxic facecamping and tunneling. Are killer mains really so fragile they need 4k's for any validation at all? Facecamp the first hook and that survivor not only doesn't get to have any fun and play the game, but they get 3k points.
There is absolutely nothing survivors can do to hold the game hostage in such a boring and toxic way that killers can. And again, back to the points thing, there is nothing survivors can do to make the killer get ~3k points in a game unless it's toxic 4 man SWF smurfs beating up on a brand new rank 20 by stealthing all game and still doing 5 gens.
I don't like people being toxic on either side and I will happily sandbag people who are teabagging, clicking, etc. But with the exception of people not leaving, that is not affecting the game at all. You just need to learn to let that stuff go. Or if they are complete jerks, then they earned a facecamp. But that's not usually the case, usually killers facecamp just because that's what they do. Many people are toxic and want to teabag at the exit, but many times people are just waiting there to see if they need to save anyone that's not with them, or maybe give some extra hits to the killer. I understand your frustration but again, you can at least chase them out. You have an option that doesn't rely on perks.
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Please tell me what survivors can do that is literally almost impossible to overcome without perks. Don't try to tell me "gen rushing." You can chase people off gens, can't chase a camper off the hook. This doesn't change just because you can't be in 4 places at once. Some killers are better at it than others. Even weaker killers like the trapper have the option of using all his resources to protect a 3-gen.
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How is it not an objective evil? The person on hook has the ability to play and enjoy the game taken away and their only outplay is to "never get caught?"
It's an anti-fun mechanic. I don't care about it's effect on my ability to win, I play the game to have fun. And if I happen to get caught early that shouldn't be a forfeiture of my ability to enjoy the game. Even if it's not me that gets camped, I get pissed off because they took away someone else's enjoyment of the game. Who wants to wait in 10 min queues to have a minute of game time before getting camped to death? How is that not objectively evil to take away the ability to play the game. It's not about skill, it's not about getting outplayed. They just sit there and ruin people's experience. And for the other 3 people not hooked, they aren't having fun either. They get t hold down M1 for a while then leave. That's not any fun either.
It's like people who cheat and they justify it because they "win." They didn't do anything, how is that even satisfying?
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survivors can overcome camping without perks, by just doing a bunch of gens while the killer camps. It sucks for the person on the hook(which again is a problem i agree). But when your talking actual game balance you have to remember it's 4 v 1. a single survivor is not supposed to be able to counter the things a killer wants to do. a survivor TEAM is supposed to be able to counter things killers want to do. You are going to be more limited on what you can do without perks on survivor because your TEAM gets 4 times as many perks as a killer. Like I've said before, I agree face camping a hook is a problem that needs to be fixed, but so many survivors are so pissed off about they come in with unworkable solution and pepper those suggestions and any discourse around them with talk about how awful and skilless every killer is, and then wonder why killers don't seem to agree with you.
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The difference is completing generators is the survivors objective. Camping is not the killer's objective. How are you possibly comparing the two? The best way to get kills is to actually go after people and kill them.
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First of all that's not really punishment. Killers still benefit way too much from a successful camp. Even if people stayed on generators it's not enough to guarantee a win, starve the killer or points, or cause a de-pip.
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It's not objectively evil because the game doesn't teach people not to do it, and it's not even always strategically always wrong too do it. ESPECIALLY for new players, you come in and you have all your garbagy starting killer perks, and you hook someone. Are you evil for sticking around? Why wouldn't you, you don't know the maps super well yet, you don't have BBQ telling you where people far away are, the only real information you have is I have on 1/4 survivors here, and 1/4 survivors should come to save them, my odds of finding someone or getting a kill is way higher by sticking around than wandering around the map.
What if I've got two tight gens that are degrading, and i have someone hooked near them, am i OBJECTIVELY EVIL if i protect htose two gens and a hooked person?
What if I hook someone and I see no one when i make the hook so i know people are around, should I leave to nowhere or should i stay close to hook to find the other survivors? what if they don't show their faces?
I don't disagree that there are some amount of people who take perverse joy out of just sitting on one person and giving them a bad game. Unfortunately there are no solutions that make it impossible for that to happen without wrecking a whole bunch of other much more valid playstyles and reasons to be near a hook. You have to live in this game with the fact that there's some amount of player crappiness you won't be able to get rid of completely, that will mitigate the problem in the healthiest way possible.
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Killing is a killer's objective. Camping can lead to survivors dying.
You can't dictate how killers individually decide to play.
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You're literally missing the main point of my argument. What you're saying was ridiculous, so I went and took your own logic and said something just as ridiculous back. Gen rushing, camping, slugging, tunneling, hell SWF where you survivors are essentially handed a 5th perk where they can communicate and coordinate better on comms, all of that I don't care about. If it's a part of the game then it is fair to use. There are ways to counter and outplay all of these tactics, every single one, including the SWF teams. I know because I watch streamers who play killer do it all the damn time! But no, instead all I'm seeing here is a lot of "Whoa is me. The killer is trying to do his job and secure a kill. How toxic of them to want to do their main objective which is to -KILL THE SURVIVORS-. Why can't he just let us get off the hooks and let us go if we run in to him after getting unhooked? I deserve to be let go if I was just hooked, map awareness be damned!" Hell even the devs themselves have weighed in on the subject and I would hardly call them sympathetic to killers since as of last month they're out here still saying that moris are toxic LOL! Like come on.
The game only ends one of two ways. Either the killer kills all 4 survivors or the survivors escape via gens or hatch. Contrary to what you say, and as someone who has experienced this more times than I care to count, survivors can literally hold the game hostage if they outplay and bully the killer. I will never forget one instance where I faced off against a 4man rank SWF death squad. I could not do a thing to them. They literally spent the entire game surrounding me, looping me, jumping in with flashlights, body blocks, run off get healed, then come back and repeat it. They weren't doing gens they were just running around me playing with me for 15 minutes. The only way for me as the killer to end the game is kill them. If I can not kill them because they are just beyond what my skill level is, then there is literally nothing I can do to end that game. The game ended when I think they finally got bored and one guy went off to spam gens while the other 3 kept messing with me and at the end they gave me a pity kill, leaving one guy behind to die to the EGC. So I didn't even get to kill them myself.
Now again, despite this one game and how badly it irritated me I don't think they did anything wrong. Yeah they were dicks, but that aside they weren't hacking, they weren't cheating, and they weren't using exploits. They were just a 4man team who knew what they were doing and had everything down to science. They were highly skilled and waaaaay beyond anything that I was even remotely capable of handling. That's just how it is. You get good games. You get bad games. All you can do is move on with your day and try to get better and learn how to better deal with that scenario so that if it happens again in the future, you'll be better prepared for it. That's all.
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I'm done trying to have a real discussion with you. You are clearly trolling.
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All the killer mains here are telling me that the solution is to just do 5 gens while they facecamp and the other 3 will escape. But then they also tell me that this is a realistic strategy for the killer's goal of kill everyone. Which one is it?
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Yep. Clearly I'm trolling. You're the one who wants to put a ban on a tactic that the game developers said is ok while I'm saying that the cheap tactics both sides are capable of doing is fine, and yet I'm the troll. Ok then. I guess it is hard to have an actual discussion when you're overly biased to one side or the other. It's fine. Not everyone is mature enough to put aside their biases and have a reasonable discussion. Later ✌️.
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They statements can be true at the same time.
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That's the whole point of what a lot of us have been saying. It's context sensitive, and that's why you can't just "remove the problem". There is a counter to camping(from the survivor team, not the individuals). Recognizing that you're in the situation and doing that counter is not 100% of the time though. Sometimes camping is the right call, sometimes camping is going to give the enemy team 3 free escapes, sometimes if you try to camp you'll lose 3 gens, and then someone with BT will come up and get them off the hook before they die/even get to the second level. Sometimes you hook someone in a great position and it's easy to defend and do something else. It's a complex problem and solutions like "just make the timer not go down" or "teleport hooked people across the map to places the killer isn't aware of" or whatever else survivor mains come up with as solutions don't work.
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How do 3 people both escape and die at the same time?
You just constantly talked about gen rush and claimed the old mori's weren't toxic. I've literally seen the game ended in under a minute with the old moris. You can't even understand why camping is toxic. You're not saying it's toxic but I think it's ok. You're literally saying ruining someone's ability to play a game is somehow not toxic. You think taking away the ability for 1 person to even play the game is OK because you want to win at all costs. This is a game. It should be about fun. There is nothing on the line.
Please define gen rush and tell me why it's so toxic and unstoppable.
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I can't claim to know what another person thinks, but i do think th ere are certain scenarios where gen rushing is largely how you describe face camping. Skillless, and unstoppable without perks(or even with sometimes). The big one i run into is, sometimes all 4 survivors just spawn in different corners of the map next to gens, and if I find one person, hit them twice, and hook them in 80 seconds I will lose 3 gens, and they will be spread out in such a way that it's going to be hard to get a clustered 3 gen. All this took was the rng placing all the survivors int he right spots, and for 3 of them to hold m1 and have one of them not be terrible in a chase. This puts the killer in a rediculously bad position without the survivors having to do anythiing hard or interesting, and even if the 1 survivor that got caught wasn't doing well. finding, downing, and hooking a survivor in a minute - a minute and a half is pretty good(or pretty bad for the survivor that got caught depending on you want to look at it).
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And that's frustrating - I hate it and feel pressured when that happens as a killer, but that's beyond survivor's control. They're just doing their objective and working with the placement they were given. There are things that can be implemented to prevent this. Don't spawn survivors within x distance, or don't spread them out so much. I'd even be OK with having something like corrupt (maybe lower duration) baseline. Even with that, I've still had plenty of fun games as killer after that point. While that's a terrible start, the game gets much harder with 4 gens left and isn't impossible to come back from.
On the flipside, camping is 100% within the killers control and ruins the hooked survivor's game. The team can recover, but that person can't. Again, my problem with it is not winning but rather enjoyment.
Too often people get super defensive and never really want to have a real discussion. They deflect and complain about all this other stuff. For once I would just like to see people actually talking about the topic without saying "well what about this?". I'm not saying there aren't other problems for either side that need to be solved, but I'm here to talk about camping.
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I...never said old moris weren't toxic though...? Are you alright over there? And I was using the "gen rush" thing as an example of the things that most killers complain about, using your same logic and applying it to their side. I told you, MULTIPLE TIMES. I don't care about gen rushing or anything. It happens. There are counters to it. If I lose to a gen rush then that's fine, whatever I lost and I move on. It's a game dude, there's no point in coming on to the forums and crying over the strategies that both sides can use to win.
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@flawedspecies I think i have pitched my ideas in every single thread like this, i even made my own thread so i could just link it as opposed to retyping, and it's pretty rare i get any responses. and if you don'ot want people to get defensive you can't lead your posts by constantly calling killers skilless and toxic(even if you only mean/specify ones who camp). I guarentee most instances of camping or tunneling are not people cacklign about how bad of a time they are giving the survivoir.
The short version of my suggestion is, give the camped survivor BP based on how well the team does over all, buff kindred to give bp at similar levels to BBQ, and auto unlock BBQ and Kindred for all killers/survivoirs, and early game(first 20 account levels or whatever a reasonable number is) auto unlock the 4th perk slot but force BBQ/Kindred to stay in that slot.
i'll link my full pitch if anyone wants the more indepth stuff for it.
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On multiple occassions I have had my solo queue teammates power out the remaining gens when I go on hook and get camped, usually when I get basement against a Hag or Bubba, as those are probably the 2 strongest killers in the basement, no kindred. It's not the best solution, but I'm more often the player who does gens while someone else is on hook, because usually my solo queue teammates hook rush. Even just 1 person getting tunneled/camped, can potentially get your team a gen or 2 if you have people working on gens.
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How do 3 people both escape and die at the same time? Dunno what you're on about. I'm talking about what you said:
"All the killer mains here are telling me that the solution is to just do 5 gens while they facecamp and the other 3 will escape. But then they also tell me that this is a realistic strategy for the killer's goal of kill everyone. Which one is it?"
Doing the gens while a survivor is being camped often leaves the killer with only that 1 kill, since said killer is no longer defending gens. When killers say that it's a strategy to kill everyone, they often refer to a type of camping that involves very altruistic survivors who the killer takes advantage of. There are pros and cons to camping and an experienced killer will know when to do it to shift the match in their favor. An inexperienced killer will simply camp in the worst way possible and lose any advantage.
That is what I mean when both statements can be true when you said:
"All the killer mains here are telling me that the solution is to just do 5 gens while they facecamp and the other 3 will escape. But then they also tell me that this is a realistic strategy for the killer's goal of kill everyone."
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By that logic then killers also need something done about gen rushing that doesn't rely on perks like Ruin or Pop. What do you think?
Yes! I've posted this idea several times before and I've posted a gen regression rework idea before as well. Gen speeds need to be slowed down to make more room for the killer, and one of the best ways to do it, in my opinion, is to reverse the co-op and solo speeds. Currently, co-operative actions by survivors suffer a 15% penalty, making splitting up and each doing one gen by far the most efficient option, which means that taking a survivor out of the fight for a while has the absolute minimum impact.
If this were changed so that solo survivors work much slower than they do now, and co-operating survivors maintain their speed, then taking one survivor out would cost the survivors a much bigger chunk of time since they don't just lose the survivor, but their co-op bonus as well. This gives the killer more pressure without changing the game's fundamentals.
HOWEVER
This CANNOT be implemented as long as camping exists, because it would be a direct buff to camping. In fact, you cannot make any changes that detriment genrushing without it also being a buff to camping. That's why camping is such a massive issue.
It's not just holding that one hooked survivor hostage, it's holding all of DBD hostage.
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Its a good idea! Only thing I would change is that it doesn’t apply when the egc is active. I don’t see how this can get abused. It will punish camping killers only. If you don’t camp then you don’t have to worry about it
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There's already ways of countering camping, and even if the killer does successfully camp against decisive strikes, borrowed time, etc, then they will still most likely lost the game as the other 3 survivors will get out. Yes it is annoying to go against, but it also means the killer MAY get a single kill and the other 3 survivors are nearly guaranteed to get out, effectively meaning the killer lost. And they get MUCH less blood points while camping, which in this game is kinda the only thing people are wanting to achieve anyways.
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This comment is such a joke, instead of actually giving us a point for you ######### idea, you're just like "hur dur killers will never understand." You ae such a joke. If you can't handle criticism for your ideas, please don't post them on the internet and grow up.
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Dude I'll be in chase with the killer and randomly get escape points even tho I'm still in chase. Survivors WILL find a way to abuse it. They always do.
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Camping is pretty much useless against a good swf:D especially in endgame.. Killers who camp the first person they see will lose 3 Gens in an instant and maybe even more.
borrowed time is a strong as perk, basically 2 out of 4 survs run it, DS is also strong against campers, not because it saves you from getting tunneled , because it gives your teammates more time to get the gens done. there should never be a perk or feature that punishes a killer for its playstyle.
Some People forget the whole purpose of the game is Sacrificing Survivors:D not every body plays it fair. but why should they.
i also get tunneled and camped alot as surv when i play with my swf, but i sometimes think about why they do it. if the swf is bad the will all go for the rescue immediatly leaving the gens untouched, with ruin in play that opens opportunities get a hit on basically everyone slow the game down even more. Those are Strats that some Killers use.
i dont like killers who do it, but i dont blame them. its a Strat and it works for them, most of the time get de pips, so they stay on ranks 5-10:)
Instead of camping killers, they should focus on the broken as keys that are in the game for years^^
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yep survivors will find a way to abuse it
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Okay, but then all development of the game should cease, because 'survivors will just abuse it'.
Just digging in your heels and refusing to fix anything just because it's tricky is pointless.
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All development of the game that is POINTLESS because it's trying to get rid of a strategy that's SO easy to counter should cease. Your mad because you lost to a camper even though that is one if the EASIEST strategies to bypass. Maybe instead of complaining on the forums go make an anti camp build or practice your looping or just ANYTHING useful to your problem. The chances of camping ever being removed are extremely slim and im sure you know it too so I have no idea why your even complaining about it.
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Do you know how inconsistent these standpoints are?
Killer brings NOED: 'just stop genrushing and do totems'
Killer camps: 'just genrush'
So what if the killer has both, then? Not to mention how much killers (rightfully) hate genrushing, but hey, I guess it's all fine and dandy because for some godforsaken reason, we need to do our utmost to protect what is the absolute worst thing about this game.
'Just bring an anticamp build!'
'Why do survivors always bring the same loadout? I'm sick of seeing UB, BT, DS all the time!'
Literally every counterargument against camping comes down to 'just make the game worse'.
And, again, you know that problem with gen speeds being too fast? Can't be addressed as long as camping exists.
You put the blinders on, call it 'easy to counter', you refuse to look at anything else. You don't care about the overall impact on the rest of the game, you don't care about its impact on how enjoyable the game is.
Again, if every killer camped, this game would die in under a week. No matter how easy it is to counter.
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You can cleanse the NOED totem after the totem is lit.
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If you know where it is. But you weren't scouting for it, since you have to genrush to punish camping.
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