Concerns with Report System Context and Auto-Bans

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Vulgun
Vulgun Member Posts: 439
edited June 2021 in Feedback and Suggestions

Considering the fact that auto-bans are coming in the near future, I think that I've got a significant amount of concerns in regards to not only the context of the reports, but also the auto-bans themselves. What I want to bring to the attention to the developers and the staff are my own concerns in the hopes that this can be talked about and resolved over time. People will be trigger-happy and the game itself needs to make damn well sure that people think before acting.

This new auto-ban system will not be perfect from the start, that's just a given, but what I'm more concerned with is the lack of real context with reporting people in regards to what's considered unsportsmanlike and what's considered cheating/hacking in the game itself. Here are my concerns:

Context for Hacking

  • Someone may end up seeing a Killer utilizing Mad Grit for faster M1 swings when carrying a survivor or an aura-reading ability of any sort to know where a Survivor is all of the sudden.
    • These could cause the unassuming, unaware Survivor to assume that the Killer is hacking by having "faster M1 speeds" or "wall-hacking".
  • Conversely, a Killer could end up seeing somebody utilizing Lithe or Sprint Burst to gain a sudden boost in speed out of nowhere, or using something like Unbreakable or No Mither to just get back up.
    • This could make the Killer assume that the Survivor is hacking without realizing that they're utilizing Perks to get back up or go faster and further away from them.

But how could this be resolved? I believe a resolution could come by having there be a disclaimer to "look at the perks of the Survivor or Killer you faced before reporting", just so that people do not make the mistake of reporting someone for using Perks, Add-Ons or other things to make it seem like they're hacking.

Context for Unsportsmanlike Conduct

This one is more of something that needs to be updated, since there's multiple things that've been brought in by the Survivors and Killers that some could consider "unsportsmanlike". While the obvious teabagging and flashlight flicker spam aren't normally unsportsmanlike, it's still better to make a list of things for new players (and some old players) to at least check before reporting for unsportsmanlike conduct.

I also believe that stream sniping should be filed under "unsportsmanlike conduct", since a Survivor or Killer player can just utilize the stream of their unwitting victim to constantly harass them or just ruin their gaming experience. This could also be filed under "harassment", since you're going out of your way to make the experience of the other player worse and you're constantly stalking them.

Your opinion may differ, but at the end of the day, stream sniping still affects the experience of the game itself, not just the outside of it.

Will there be an Appeal System for Auto-Ban?

That's just it; the question is in the title. Will there be an appeal system for the auto-ban? What if someone is mistakenly banned or otherwise mass reported just because people assume that they are hacking or just being rude? What if someone is reported because the other people were just being arseholes to them?

There needs to be some sort of ban appeal system, at least in-game, at best both in and out of game, for anyone who is considered "automatically banned" through the new system.

Maybe there can be something in place to determine whether or not your reports are justified; like if you've disconnected, or if you were actually very salty in chat, etc. There needs to be some sort of way to appeal the ban and have someone check to see if it's justified or not.

I also think that the appeal should extend further to where if a majority of reports are false, you get unbanned, but if a majority of reports are true, you remain banned. That way you are at least given innocence until proven guilty. Not the other way around.

If there's an appeal system, there should be a counterban system!

This one is more self-explanatory since no one should get away Scott free for attempting to falsely ban somebody else. I think that in the event someone was falsely banned, a counterban should be enacted on those who tried to ban them. I'd suggest a temporary 30 minute suspension from playing as soon as they log in, as well as a reason that they were suspended from play (being that they were counter-banned for falsely reporting someone).

How Many?

Something I know more than likely won't be disclosed due to exploit reasons is "how many reports will it take to be banned?"

So I want to ask a different question. What's the weight of each report between Survivors and Killers? Do the Killers have equivalent weight to 4 Survivor Reports? Do all reports in a match have equivalent weight to each other (meaning 4 survivors can report the 1 killer and have more weight than the latter since it's a 4:1 ratio)?

What determines the weight of each report? How can we be sure that Survivors can't just abuse the report system by hitting a Killer with wave after wave of 4-man reports?

How Long?

How long are auto-bans? Are they to be equivalent to that of an actual temporary ban? If so...

Temporary Bans need to have Appeals

If you're going to be running a new auto-ban system, then you will need to remove the restriction of being unable to appeal Temporary Bans due to this. It would be completely unfair if someone unjustly banned is incapable of appealing because of it being considered a "Temporary" ban, now would it?

So, I say get rid of that. If a person can be found that they did not violate anything within the temporary ban window, I believe that they should be unbanned within that amount of time.

Conclusion

Preferably, I would genuinely NOT implement an automatic ban system in the game because of the amount of toxicity that would accrue due to this. People will abuse it if it isn't developed well, and people will be unable to fight back if they are falsely banned, if this system isn't developed well. Again, I think that auto-bans should just not be a thing and reports should be manually investigated instead of actually being automatically done.

My Alternative (Please, Listen to This at least!)

My alternative to all of this, the thing that would make it so that automatic bans are just unnecessary, is to give us two features in the future to allow for better reports. These features are the "Snapshot" and the "Recording" systems.

Snapshots are special images taken directly in-game with no modification to it, which is best used for end-of-game chatting or catching a sequence of events. Snapshots have a special timer and date log on them that indicates when they are taken, and up to three snapshots can be captured in order to report somebody for any number of things. This is best reserved for end-of-match chat (which, by the way, all chat history from now on should be available immediately at the end of the match; this includes pre-match chatting).

Recordings are another method of capturing people in the act; by holding the special snapshot button, you can record upwards of 30 seconds of footage of whatever act you find to be unsportsmanlike, griefing, hacking or otherwise. This would enable better clarity and context in the matter, and would let the person seeing the report determine whether or not the offense is banworthy. Recordings could start their life on the PC version of the game, but slowly make their way to other versions as well, though I would expect this to be very difficult.

Recordings could also come hand-in-hand with a replay system, which if this were to be implemented, would allow players to actually be capable of recording whole matches not only for how to play better, but to better catch cheaters, griefers or unsportsmanlike people. Again, another system that would be invaluable to the health of the game.

And my most major suggestion to the report system as a whole is that the user reporting the other, with this new system in mind, should be given a warning in regards to false reports. Accruing three or more warnings for false reports within the span of a 24 hour period should then result in a temporary suspension of play (preferably starting at 30 minutes, but getting worse over time). This would allow it so that players do not make mistakes, and if they continue making false reports, then they will have their just punishment...

But that's not all...

If a person accrues up to 5 total suspensions of play due to false reports, they should be given a further penalty, one that's actually an in-game penalty. For the next 48 hour period, you will be "Marked" by "The Entity".

"Marked" players now have a little something on their head, which is an "Iridescent Red "R" Mark". This "Red R" is actually an abbreviation of "Report", since you decided to try abusing the system. This applies to both Survivors and Killers alike, and is effectively a dunce hat sort of thing that can be done for hilarity sake.

By the point of 5 total suspensions, you kept trying to falsely report someone by intention, so you deserve to reap the consequences of your actions.

Also, the Red "R" Mark would also be a charm that everyone just gets without needing to report. Thankfully, since it's a charm, it can't be above your head to make you stick out like a sore (loser) thumb, and doesn't mean you falsely reported people. So long as it isn't above your head, you should be fine.

================================

Anyway, I hope that a developer can at least come in and give some clarity in the auto-ban system, the contexts behind it, as well as quell some general concerns me and many other people may even have with it.

I'm also hoping that maybe there can be an alternative to this instead of just doing automatic bans, since the system is, again, currently vague and would more than likely start off flawed if not done correctly.

Let's just hope it's not the case and somehow it's done right.

Post edited by Mandy on

Comments

  • Jasix
    Jasix Member Posts: 1,245
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    They are not going to give any clarity because the system isn't even finished being developed. Maybe wait until they have completed it, done internal testing, and actually give us any information before speculating or worrying about it.

  • Onykron
    Onykron Member Posts: 62
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    Well as a killer main i would also like some clarity regarding this topic, even though i know survivors will just report bomb me for not playing the way they want. To be honest it seems a bit irresponsable to just throw the Autoban system randomly with no context and then tuning out , if they were not ready to release a full statement with details i dont think they should have done it.

  • Jasix
    Jasix Member Posts: 1,245
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    Never said it wasn't. It was an incredibly stupid idea to even announce it until it was completed and internally tested because the DBD community is about as paranoid as it gets. That being said - it does NO good to dwell on something we have no information about and that hasn't even been completed yet. All threads about this possible upcoming "feature" do is spread misinformation and hyperbole.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,585
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    We are right to be paranoid.

    If the system goes through as it was advertised in the stream, the game dies.

    BHVR is notorious for not following through on things, I sincerely hope that this is one of those things.

  • Jasix
    Jasix Member Posts: 1,245
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    I mean if you wanna be paranoid - that's your choice. I on the other hand see no reason to assume things because let's be real - no information was given in the stream to justify the wild assumptions people are posting. Just more hyperbole on the forums.

  • tolore
    tolore Member Posts: 101
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    I think it's pretty unfair to be paranoid about this one. a million games have reporting and auto ban systems that have basic sanity checks for false reporting. I don't think it's a big deal for them to go "we are adding a system that exists in tons of games and works fine".

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,585
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    What else are we supposed to think when THIS is literally what they said on stream:


  • Yatol
    Yatol Member Posts: 1,929
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    it might mean if someone gets enough reports they will look at it to see if they are warranted, still a flawed system since it requires to break the rules often.

  • Vulgun
    Vulgun Member Posts: 439
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    This was unfortunately moved to feedback and suggestions, a completely unwarranted move that will surely get this thread done in by complete and utter obscurity.

    What's more unfortunate, however, is the fact that there is no response to this and the ultimate fate of what we currently know will still be vague. We should NOT be at the mercy of the developers or the moderators for this; we should be able to know immediately what the intentions are and what the full context is.

    Bad move.