Can you guys stop nerfing fine killers

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  • solidhex
    solidhex Member Posts: 884
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    About all the "Stridor-Spirit OP"-hate:

    Not many good Spirits use Stridor, at least in the tournaments i've watched (yeah i know it's a different sphere), not one Spirit used it. I personally use it when i play her most of the time as i got used to it too much, but it makes pinpointing the exakt location of non-IW-survivors very difficult. Especially on loops with thin walls or at pallets it becomes a pure guess on which side they are.

  • MadLordJack
    MadLordJack Member Posts: 8,814
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    Not many good Spirit players use Stridor because it's a crutch perk, like Shadowborn on Nurse or Huntress only less addictive.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 10,212
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    Yep. I am not a good Spirit player, but when I embarked on my journey to P3 I didn't use Stridor once. Kinda afraid to get too used to Stridor's volume and have problems with the default volume later.

  • solidhex
    solidhex Member Posts: 884
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    I encounter MUCH MORE Nurses compared to Spirit (Europe). Can be maybe due to all the hate Spirit players get (it's kinda like a witch hunt already), but i also think it's because many players just not find her as easy as many people claim she is (at least many people told me they don't like playing as her because using her power feels to abstract).

    Spirit is ez 4k against very predictable bad survivors who can't at least a little bit try to get into the Spirits head and just run in a straight line to the next pallet and camp. But as soon as you get to rank 1 and play against better survivors more regularly, you really need to be good with her as their mindgaming is much better (source: mained her for around 1 year).

    I agree about the add ons, maybe if they really want to nerf her, they should start there. Legion? He can see the survivors which is MUCH better than only seeing wonky scratchmarks that are all over the place.

  • solidhex
    solidhex Member Posts: 884
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    But a bad crutch. Killers with over 4k hours use NOED in tournaments where you can win money. Pretty sure they wouldn't hesitate to use Stridor if it would win them their game. Yes it has it's value against full-IW squads but it pisses me off i haven't learned her without it.

  • MadLordJack
    MadLordJack Member Posts: 8,814
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    I'm lost, are you saying that a perk that makes one of the strongest and least counterable killers in the game significantly easier to the point of requiring the least practice out of any killer to steamroll 999/1000 games is a good thing or a bad thing?

  • justbecause
    justbecause Member Posts: 1,521
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    She's far from fine but ur entitled to ur opinion so are others where were u when forums bombed ds nerfs threads did u asked them to stop? No double standards here

  • Unifall
    Unifall Member Posts: 747
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    Not until every killer is an m1 killer lol.

  • sulaiman
    sulaiman Member Posts: 3,213
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    But with a matchmaking that doesnt reflect skill in any way, why should that be a good thing?

    If this game gets a working MMR, it might change, but right now?

    Why is it a good thing, that the rank 18 killer matched with the red rank swf should not have a chance to do anything?

  • Dustin
    Dustin Member Posts: 2,247
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    The hate never stopped and no Spirit isn't fine but thanks.

    We also do have strong killers now - Nurse, Blight, Huntress and some other M1 killers have even been brought up to snuff. As killer is my primarily role I love the game having strong killers. However I like it when strong killers have a high skill floor and a learning curve and not everyone can brainlessly pick up a killer and do well just because of how the power operates.

  • solidhex
    solidhex Member Posts: 884
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    I'm saying it doesn't really make her better if the survivors do not use IW. Play her for 5 games without and then with Stridor. I dropped it in the last 3 months whenever i played her, then i equipped it again because IW annoyed me and made me lose games but I get confused by the super loud moanings and often go out of phase to early or choose the wrong side of a wall/ pallet. It may be good in showing you the general direction of a survivor when you phase around but especially against good ones in chases it gets very confusing because you can't really tell if they just backtracked or so. You have to focus on other signs which makes Stridor redundant. Most of the experienced Spirit players i talked to told me you're better off using the perk slot for something else.

  • MadLordJack
    MadLordJack Member Posts: 8,814
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    So you don't think it's at all a problem that it makes the easiest and most hated of the top killers even more accessible to the point of being one of, if not the, easiest killers in the game?

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,130
    edited June 2021
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    According to the data, based on BHVR's buffs/nerfs, we can surmise the following:

    Everything above Billy, needs a nerf (because they nerfed him)

    Everything Below Wraith, needs a buff (because they buffed him)


    Freddy already got nerfed since this data came out and demo got buffed.

    Blight go buffed

    Huntress got addon reworks (but no core changes)

    Clown got buffed


    Next on the list is to:


    • Nerf Doctor, buff Nurse (i don't think they will actually buff nurse, i think shes the anomaly in their data) so it'll likely be buff plague since blight also recently got buffed.
    • Nerf Bubba, buff Deathslinger
    • Nerf Pig, Buff Huntress,
    • Nerf Spiri, Probably rework myers since he is old
    • Nerf oni
  • EvilJoshy
    EvilJoshy Member Posts: 5,295
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    If a killer can down a survivor than it is OP and needs to be nerfed

    I am being sarcastic but the scary thing is there are plenty of survivor mains who actually believe this.

  • dbdplayer1022
    dbdplayer1022 Member Posts: 14
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    I understand that Spirit needs a nerf and I think she does but if we receives a nerf for being overpowered we should figure out nerfing SWFs. It's hard to figure out but it doesn't matter what killer I bring or if I play my cards right they will gen rush me and end this game quickly. I'm a rank 1 killer that can't stand when this happens and it's becoming so often I don't enjoy playing. To add to this, I'm a rank 4 survivor so I'm not biased, I also know when I use my swf we are usually guaranteed 3-4 man escape unless we mess up bad. Both sides need a fix.

  • Ravio_Li
    Ravio_Li Member Posts: 126
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    I've been a big fan of Buff Billy, Nerf Spirit. Billy was one of the strongest killers who was easy to pick up, but had a lot HUGE amount of interaction and counter play, unlike Spirit.

    I'm fine with Spirit being a strong killer, if she was actually fun to go against. Blight, you gotta take odd corners and jukes. Oni you have to play on the safe side, and tightly loop odd structures so he can't down you with his dash. Billy was to change direction tightly or hug corners when he uses his chainsaw so he'll miss. Nurse doesn't have a lot of counterplay besides the occasional locker juke, but the way her power works is a lot more interactive than Spirits.

    Having 1 killer who greatly breaks the flow of the game is fine, and I think Nurse does it in the best of ways. Slowest default movement speed (slower than survivors running speed), high speed power, but is balanced by the stun and precision needed to use. Spirit is just diet Nurse. She has the slower movement speed compared to a lot of killers, at 110, but not Nurse's 96%. Her power gives her huge boosts of speed without the need of precision aiming, and she doesn't get the stun. Only thing Spirit can't do that Nurse can is move through walls and pallets.

    Also, Wraith: Strong killer, has counter play. He has amazing speed when in his power, but he can be burnt out of his power, and he still has to uncloak. And he has a lot more signs to react to when he is even right on top of you.

  • Ravio_Li
    Ravio_Li Member Posts: 126
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    A Good Nurse will finish the game in under 5 minutes, a good Spirit feels like a lot longer.

  • Ravio_Li
    Ravio_Li Member Posts: 126
    edited June 2021
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    I don't think they're being serious when they say that.

  • Dodgingbears
    Dodgingbears Member Posts: 252
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  • Grandpa_Crack_Pipe
    Grandpa_Crack_Pipe Member Posts: 3,306
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    ...what?

    The matchmaking sucks so who cares the better player winning, just throw it all out the window?

    Jesus, I don't even have to say anything after that. But I will anyway.

    I like how you basically just admit that Spirit's completely busted but you're still reaching so hard to defend your girl from getting changed. If a red rank SWF stomps a rank 18 Spirit, then that #########' sucks and they should never have gotten matched together, but the better player still won.

  • Nathan13
    Nathan13 Member Posts: 6,636
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    I don't like playing as her either, nothing really exciting.

  • kate_best_girl
    kate_best_girl Member Posts: 2,184
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    Not balancing around the highest tiers of play makes it so top tier players literally can't play the game.

  • kate_best_girl
    kate_best_girl Member Posts: 2,184
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    I play both but im mostly a survivor main but good guess I suppose lol

  • kate_best_girl
    kate_best_girl Member Posts: 2,184
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    Then how about not getting into a chase with a spirit in the first place? Stealth is another option in this game that everyone just ignores completely like it isn't there.

  • kate_best_girl
    kate_best_girl Member Posts: 2,184
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    You can't do that with spirit either and only someone whos never played Spirit in red rank against even decent survivors knows that.

  • kate_best_girl
    kate_best_girl Member Posts: 2,184
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    Lol its not bait its just true. Spirit is fine, why does every single killer have to be a chase orientated one? Why can't there be actual diverse playstyles?

  • Carnagetheory
    Carnagetheory Member Posts: 53
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    Literally three pages of people telling you you're wrong without a single person agreeing with you. Add to that Otz and Scott's videos, both of whom are great killers, and Otz alone has over 6000 hours in DBD. I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you probably don't have 6000 hours. So yeah, either this is bait, or you're just flat out wrong. Make your choice. ;)

  • WexlerWendigo
    WexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867
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    Hard to stealth when the devs are constantly nerfing it. There’s a noise for slow vaulting now, so it’s clear the devs don’t want stealthy plays in the game.

    You also can’t just hop off gens because a killer might be coming for you.

    A lot of gens are in areas where the only cover is trees or one wall that can easily be checked.

  • DudelPumaAce
    DudelPumaAce Member Posts: 305
    edited June 2021
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    that right spirit is fine, when they talk about "SHE" then they all meaning huntress, she is broken with her ship hitboxes, she need a nerf

    Spirit is love <3 spirit is fine :D has no counterplay but look to stats :) she is fine haha

    and please never nerf the addons its fine, MD-Ring with Amulet is not OP is little bit strong not more :D i will hunt so hard that addons, the last thing what i need is a nerf on her or hers addons...

    spirit love for ever #FreeSpirit

  • Luigifan64
    Luigifan64 Member Posts: 1,110
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  • Nyx32
    Nyx32 Member Posts: 130
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    spirit is kinda fine, except her add-ons make counterplay against her really hard as it's hard to tell the timing. otzdarva made a video on it :D

  • ALostPuppy
    ALostPuppy Member Posts: 3,398
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    These top players are doing just fine right now, don't really see what's stopping them from "literally" not being able to play the game in its current state. And the game has never, and will never, be balanced around the top % of players because that is an incredibly stupid thing for any company to do to their game for a number of obvious reasons.

  • SkeletalElite
    SkeletalElite Member Posts: 2,677
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    There's literally nothing fine about spirit IMO

    Overpowered base kit

    Overpowered addons

    Badly designed gameplay that removes input and interaction from the survivor.

  • solidhex
    solidhex Member Posts: 884
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    I find that definition of interaction and input a bit simplified. We have already enough boring loop-around-the-rock-and-then-stun killers- that's what most survivors understand as "interaction" in this game. Seems like many don't like "guessing" but for me it's a way of getting into the killers head, i try to imagine what i would do as Spirit now - and i always feel satisfied when i tricked a Spirit and just leave the loop or something.

  • Dodgingbears
    Dodgingbears Member Posts: 252
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    I am not saying she is fun to play against. But I dont think it is "unfair" because it is a mechanic in the game. Nurse has a very similar issue with the ability to teleport. Blight also has insane mobility and tech to 180. I am with you that she is not fun to play against and I dont like playing as her, but there are not a lot of spirits around. I think there are truly "unfair" things in this game that can be addressed.. but the killer is working as designed, so it is fair, but you can argue, not fun.

  • solidhex
    solidhex Member Posts: 884
    edited June 2021
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    I don't think she is the easiest or one of the easiest killers in the game, with or without Stridor. I think she is easier to get good with than many top tier killers but there is a reason all the boosted sweaty killers have used mostly Freddy before his nerf for ez win.

    Imo there are 2 kinds of people who hate Spirit or say she's too easy, boring etc.:

    1. Players with a lot of experience: Spirit is a killer that rewards experience and game sense. Since she hasn't really a difficult mechanic to learn (like Nurse, Billy, Blight), the things you require are a good observational skill and prediction skills/ experience/ game sense. She is also simple in the meaning of that she's a pure chase killer. If you started with the game in 2016 and picked Spirit up 3 years later, you probably will have had some success immediately, because the abstract power mechanic that not only involves fine observation but also guessing/ predicting, won't pose such a big challenge for you as for someone who just started with the game.
    2. Players who don't like the abstract mechanic that is involved while playing as her or against her, visual types. Hope that doesn't sound rude but some people also just can't think out of the box. And no i don't think you can prevent every hit by doing this, if you're injured and don't have much space to run into, you will go down.

    Spirit has crazy potential and is IN THEORY nearly unbeatable if all of your predictions are right, but IN PRACTICE most of the Spirits will make mistakes. One of the arguments when people actually win against a Spirit is always "no, she was just bad", and while i think it's stupid it's also correct in some way. If she's making no mistakes you have no chance. But getting on this level takes a lot of experience. I'm still not there, as i'm losing nearly as many games with her as with other killers. But i'm pretty sure a lot more people would play her if she would promise the safe 4k everytime without risk.

    Btw i would be fine with a nerf for her add ons and maybe give her some kind of glow when she phases. Only so this discussion is finally ending. Then everyone will focus on Nurse probably.

  • MadLordJack
    MadLordJack Member Posts: 8,814
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    Freddy, Bubba and Myers are the only killers I can think of that are easier than Spirit, and none of them carry the same effort:reward ratio she does except perhaps Bubba now that he's been buffed and Freddy doesn't have Forever Freddy.

  • Yogerman1997
    Yogerman1997 Member Posts: 374
    edited June 2021
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    Im okay about have to play a mindgame vs her while she uses the phase walk


    But im not okey about she don't actually have to do anything and just stall still

    If she wants to fake the phase walk, it should to use it inmobile, but use it, so if i run away she have to recharge it.


    And the phsssss sound should play inside the terror ratius too.



    So, as i said A LOT of times, this is what i will do to her:



    Buffs:

    Being 115% killer.

    Able to charge the phase walk while moving, but at 90% movement speed.


    Nerfs:

    Phase walk speed reduced to 115%.

    Delete every addon who increases the phase walk speed, now slightly increases the movement speed while charging it.

    Phase Walk sounds are audible inside the Terror Ratius.


    Now is a mindgame killer, but a fair one, you know when she try to mindgame, and she don't run at the speed of light.

  • solidhex
    solidhex Member Posts: 884
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    and Wraith, Legion, even Trapper? They all may be hard to master in higher levels (esp. Trapper) but picking them up is easy and their power is easy to understand and execute.

  • MadLordJack
    MadLordJack Member Posts: 8,814
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    Spirit is very easy to pick up and you don't need to master her to absolutely destroy the significant majority of teams with genuine ease. In order to do even remotely as well as any of the other killers listed, you have to put in a lot of time and effort, even Freddy. You don't with spirit.

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,870
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    I dont know what comment you directly replied to, but from context I have to assume I mentioned that Spirit needs to have longer chases. Because this is the situation: It is a 1 v 4. I do not control my teammates actions. Even if I play with 3 friends and we're on comms, I do not control my teammates actions. My teammates can make mistakes that I will be punished for. If 1 of my teammates cant hold their own against a Spirit, I will lose insanely quick. The only times I tend to win in solo queue against a Spirit is because that Spirit is rather terrible or I get lucky RNG and a ton of windows(which, FYI, have recently been an indirect buff to Spirit, as you can no longer silently slow vault, as if Spirit needed even more info to know where you are).


    So while its true that survivors could waste time by forcing the killer to search and patrol. No gens will be done in that time untill one of the survivors goes into chase. It's pretty much impossible for survivors to work on a generator and never be found. Because once the killer knows where a survivor could be, they will patrol that region more heavily. Add on to that fact that most maps have had their pallet count reduced without adding windows, meaning there are less resources for survivors to deal with(which, against the average killer is a GOOD thing, but when talking about Spirit, it's the opposite).


    The devs have balanced maps quite decently, the devs have addressed problematic mechanics like toolboxes and certain perks. Now they are addressing problematic killers, whether it be due to them being too weak or too strong for the current meta.(dont worry, Billy will be re-addressed in the near future, he's in a decent spot right now, not an amazing one, but he's far from PTB terrible, there are other killers that have simply priority now)

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,870
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    I mean, I've been a rank 1 killer for over a year, every single time I played Spirit for a challenge, I barely used perks that complement her ability, I didnt even really use powerful addons, and I still got ez 3k's against fairly sweaty survivors. Thing is, all players play differently, games need to last long enough to read the killer or the killer has to be a very typical kind of killer(aka, boosted Spirits being easily mindgamed by dropping a pallet early and then running back where they came from).


    And people in Europe have stopped playing her, because she's boring to play compared to other killers. Every single time I played against a killer and I asked why they played a certain killer that match, they told me they like playing that killer. When I ask that question to Spirit players, they almost always say they needed an archive challenge done and didnt want to grind 3 games to get it done, they dont enjoy playing Spirit. She's too easy to play.

    "Legion? He can see the survivors which is MUCH better than only seeing wonky scratchmarks that are all over the place."

    Except that Line of Sight breaking is a thing that all killers need to deal with, and Legion literally loses ALL tracking if that happens to him in Frenzy(unless he hit another survivor prior ofcourse). Once a survivor vaults a window, you barely hear them(Legion breathing very loudly himself) and you can lose them very easily. With Spirit? Eh, just look at the scratchmarks and you'll find the survivor easily.

    Not seeing survivors isnt a downside. Stop claiming it is. I dont see survivors at least 60% of the match, heck, I even love playing on maps where I dont see the survivors during chase much(Lery's for example). I've played games where all I saw was scratchmarks and heard survivors while cutting them off. You dont need to see survivors to hit survivors. You just need to be able to deduce their location. Spirit can do this easily with her 176% movementspeed. She doesnt have Legion levels of heavy breathing while phasing to muddy out the breathing sounds.

  • solidhex
    solidhex Member Posts: 884
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    I'm pretty sure that Freddy is much more boring to play and i've seen plenty of Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer or BBQ/Pop-Freddy's combined with his stupid add ons, at least before the nerf. There are a lot of frustrated and entitled killer mains out there who would play anyone who guarantees easy 4ks. Spirit is "easy" for players with a lot of experience because knowing what most survivors will do will give you a huge advantage, but i know for certain players that don't play Spirit because they find her too hard or to abstract. She was the second killer i've ever played and i mained her for a while, but still got stuck somewhere around rank 8 till i actually learned the fundamentals of the killer gameplay. She is not boosting anyone who is just bad at the game. You can also look into the forum threads, you will find many people who like to play Spirit. I never play her with purple or pink add ons (sometimes the lunge-add on) and rarely the green ones. If you get some good survivors, misusing your power can be quite punishing. Not like Ghostface-punishing but it still costs you precious time. She also barely has any map pressure if you don't play with duration add ons, as using your power for traversal means you can't use it for chase immediately. My benchmark are good survivors who know how to loop (and therefore abuse your 110%) and know how Spirit works, not your random red/purple solo squad, i could 4k those with any killer.

    Imo scratchmarks are wonky especially on maps like Hawkins or Midwich where you don't have grass for a clue. They have latency and sometimes spread behind doors and trick you. It's just my opinion, even after 2k hours i just use them for a general hint that someone is near.

  • BenZ0
    BenZ0 Member Posts: 4,125
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    Nurse has fair counterplay? Dafuq? You have never played against a really good nurse do you?

  • kate_best_girl
    kate_best_girl Member Posts: 2,184
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    So we should balance around low skill low tier players just so its fun in the beginning but once you get good you just can't play the game because every game you'll either get completely demolished or you'll be the one who demolishes? It actually does stop a lot of players from playing hence why Nurse and Spirit are so prevalent in higher tiers and regarded as the only viable killers.