Solo survivor isn't that bad, just got to adapt.
Obviously solo is weaker than swf. That's not even really up for debate. You can argue what is weaker, killer or solo survivor but the exaggeration some content creators do when saying solo survivor is a million times weaker than killer is ridiculous.
Yes there will be clown fiesta games where it seems like it's the killer and your 3 team mates are against you. That will always happen even if solo is somehow buffed to be stronger than swf. But that is basically just all the argument i've heard is. People do stupid things in solo and screw the game so solo survivor is weaker than killer?
Just change your perks man. The amount of solo's that don't run kindred is mind boggling. I've seen killers post on here saying they used 4 gen slow down perks and then complain that the games still go by too fast because they can't find anyone. The solution is to take off a slowdown perk and use a tracking perk instead. But when solo's complain about being weak because no one goes for the save or everyone does or another survivor runs the killer to their gen or they can't find a Hex or whatever it is, how come the solotion for them is to stop using 3 second chance perks plus exhaustion?
If totems are an issue use anti totem perks. If you want your team to be able to be more efficient when someone gets hooked then use kindred. That being said there will be games even if you switch out perks where you will get tunneled for face camped or your team mates are potatoes but that will always happen. I have killer games where Ruin and Undying are gone in 30 seconds. Where it spawns all 4 survivors on an unblocked gen when i have corrupt. Where everyone is spawned on a different gen so by the time i down someone 3 gens are gone. No one ever brings that up when saying solo survivor is so much weaker than killer. But the time someone gets face camped by basement bubba and no one is doing gens and all just crouching around the basement, that is a perfect example of how solo survivor is miserable?
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Solo queue is 100% harder than killer. The lack of information and coordination with the team, inability to play with the perks you want, individual skill being almost completley irrelevant, and most importantly the matchmaking makes solo queue a terrible experience.
And even if you refuse to believe that solo queue is harder than killer, you can't deny that solo queue is significantly less fun than swf and killer for most people.
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The only issue with solo is matchmaking and ranking. It in itself isn't weak
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It's only harder because of the matchmaking and ranking system we have. Solo Queue is not weak, your teammates are.
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The fact that your team mates are bad does not make the role itself weak
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The issue is using perks to fix design flaws when swf don't need to. Which is my entire problem with solo.
That and the awful matchmaking leading to people not saving on hook even with Kindred.
And the inability to coordinate builds before the game.
And the lack of information in-game.
And knock out + TTS being solo stop perks-
Actually no there's a lot of issues that need addressing before the game can be remotely close to balance.
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Killer also has to use gen slow down to fix gen speeds.
Bad matchmaking will always happen to both sides even to swfs
You can on pc, i can't say for console but you can talk to your team mates in lobby.
Killer's also have lack of info, take info perks.
There are perks that lose their affect vs swf. I wish they could figure out some way to fix it so ill agree with the knock out point.
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1) and that's an issue that should also be addressed. Because one side suffers an issue doesn't justify making the other suffer the same issue, it justifies fixing the issue.
2) That I can't fault, but it's consistently awful for solos so.
3) Cross-play exists.
4) Refer to point 1.
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No amount of perks is going to suddenly put a brain in some of your team's heads.
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I'm all for buffing solo que to get stronger, but the only thing im worried about is when people try to paint this huge gap between killer and solo survivor, it makes me think that if they ever do buff solo then killers won't get that much of a compensation.
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No amount of buffs to solo survivor will do that either. Sometimes you get brain dead people on your team that sandbags. ######### but not much you can do
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I always just shake my head when people say solo queue is fine or isnt garbage. Like do these people even play solo? Are these troll threads?
"Solo queue is fine", as I watch Meg unhook someone without bt, injured, in front of the killers face. "Yup, were going to win this one boys".
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Yeah you get dumbass survivors. It's gonna happen. We can buff solo all we want but it isn't going to fix low iq plays like that.
Solo is only considered bad because of people like that and miscommunication. Kindred itself is a huge help.
Just because you get bad team mates does not make the role itself weak.
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No communication will make even the most skillful survivors look like they are inexperienced.
You can't purely pin the problem on other teammates. Even with good teammates, they still miss out on communication.
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Oh i understand that is the biggest reasons why swf has the advantage over solo.
But there are info perks. Namely kindred.
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Depends a lot on your teamates. The game might be a nightmare against a killer if you play badly, or you might get a nightmare because your teamates are selfcaring in a corner when you are mid chase and the game isnt progressing as you get time for gens.
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sorry for bad penmanship in the key
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And i totally get that. But giving a totem counter and base kit kindred and whatever else people think up is not going to stop solo que survivors from self caring in the corner.
People exaggerated how bad solo survivor is and they use team mates being dumb as an example. Team mates are always going to be dumb.
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However, that's the problem.
Perks are being used to fix a design flaw in the game. Solo survivors are forced to use perks if they want to catch up to SWF, which shouldn't be the case. While SWF will have freed perk slots because they don't need to catch up to anything, they have comms to notify their teammates of what's going on from all personal perspectives.
Meg: "Um, yeah, he's camping me. Just do generators."
Dwight: "Alright, let's gen-rush."
Nea & Jake: "On it!"
Meg: "Hey, since I don't need to use information perks since we can just use comms. Can someone walk close to me so that Comaraderie actives, giving y'all more time to do generators?"
Nea: "Alright done!"
Meg: "Nice!"
This is Kindred without running Kindred. Essentially allowing them to run a different perk that could be helpful.
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I mean, I became killer main from frustration with solo queue survivors, I loop the killer for 5 minutes and the teamates did 1-2 gens and leave me to die at my first hook, and thats because I was red rank surv, I was getting r16-18 survivors, its really frustrating, they dont know when to get the save, they dont know when to go to gens and ######### like that.
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Its understandable, it happends with every one.
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Yeah and that's the issue with swf vs solo. I agree there.
What i don't agree with is the talking point of killer being way stronger than solo survivor.
A lot of people don't give up their second chance perks to run the perks like Kindred which will make it less painful.
I'm all for buffing solo survivor. But if we do that i'd expect buffs for every killer outside of the maybe the top 3 or 4
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the penmanship or the match
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If survivors catch up normally to SWF, its gonna be even more difficult for the killer to play the game, the gme is really difficult against optimal squads and SWFs in general.
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And that is bad team mates being bad. Even with base kit kindred, even with a totem counter. Even with base kit bond you will get bad team mates.
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And thats what Im saying, thats what everyone is saying here.
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But that isn't solo survivor being weak that is just people being stupid. You can buff solo survivor to infinity and you will still get people like that. So when we compare the strength of killer vs solo survivor we shouldn't take into account the fact you can get sandbags on your team because no amount of buffing or nerfing will ever fix that.
What i'm saying is yes solo is weaker than swf. But i don't think solo is that much weaker than killer. A big reason why it feels like it is because no one every tries to coordinate builds in lobby or give up second chance perks for info perks like Kindred or Small game.
Yes Kindred will not stop the Claudette self caring in the corner with sloppy. But it will help prevent everyone coming to save you at the same time or no one coming because they think someone else will help them.
When a killer complains about gen times the answer is "Use slow down perks". If they can't find people it's "Use tracking perks". But when solo survivor's complain about gong show's from miscommuncation the answer never seem's to be "Use kindred" "Use bond".
That's why i don't think as some content creators do that solo survivor is way weaker than killer. I'd say they are pretty close in terms of power and i bring this up because if they do give all the QOL buffs to solo survivor then i expect a pretty nice update for every killer outside the top 3 or 4.
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I got what you meant now
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Yeah, I disagree for most of the reasons already stated.
I just stopped playing Solo tonight out of pure frustration. SWF being able to communicate with each other is basically like each team mate having a ton of extra information perks. And as @GoodBoyKaru said, the ability to coordinate perks is invaluable. Selecting your own team mates that compliment your play-style is also a massive advantage.
Like I had a match tonight against a Rank 1 tunneling Spirit (and thanks to the matchmaking test, I was the only red rank. The rest were purples so they should have known better). It was a blood bath. Rank 1 Spirits usually are anyways, but this Killer very obviously had BBQ. Not ONE of my team mates seemed to pick up on it. If I was in an SWF I could just call it out and the entire game would have changed. Alas, not one generator was completed. It was a circus of a match where I was just running my ass off all around the map unhooking because I was the only one with BT.
I refuse to believe that somehow that Spirit is having a rougher time as Killer than the Solo survivors being tossed to her like raw meat to a 700lbs crocodile.
There is no matchmaking fix possible to make up for the lack of information, and lack of ability to coordinate. The whole idea of survivor side is playing as a team, but Solo rarely feels one. Most of us have to create self-sufficient builds knowing damn well you can't count on anyone.
So yeah. Solo survivor is ballz lol. Something has to be done to make it less sucky.
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While i sympathize with your match, it doesn't counter any of my points.
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Most of your points are "Just run Kindred".
It's way more complicated than that. The rest is basically your opinion that you personally don't find Solo that bad.
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Yes because info perks like this really do help in solo que.
Buffing survivor to have this info for free will not help the other issue of bad team mates.
No one in your game figured out the killer had BBQ. That's on them. Unless you propose an ingame voice chat for the survivors then you will always have this happen with solo que.
I know it's my opinion but saying solo que survivor is no where near the strenght of killer is also just an opinion. Bad matches will always happen, but the amount of bad matches can be reduced by using perks like Kindred and Bond, but survivors seemed glued to their second chance perks.
When Ruin/Undying was at the peak of its power, the amount of maps, small games, and detective hunches didn't change. People are just too glued to their second chance perks. I get that it sucks if you want to run all the second change perks in the world, but that is the nature of the game. I have a lot of perk builds i want to run on killer but they give up too much in the form of game delay and tracking. I can still use them if i want. Just like a solo survivor can use second chance perks all they want but they shouldn't be complaining about totems or lack of coordination with the other survivors.
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Requiring the usage of x, y, and z perks is a terrible solution. There is a limited resource of perk slots, and not only do those perks take up space in a selection of 4, but they are inferior to communications. Information does not mean coordination.
Plus, the greatest benefit of SWF and greatest failing of SoloQ is teammate selection. With SWF, you can choose your teammates. With SoloQ, half of the time you get paired with a bunch of megheads.
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Right? SWF can also say, “with this map we need to do the middle gens and leave the outer ones for last. Everyone immediately split up and if chased take the killer to the outer map”
I can’t do that with soloQ. Those 2 sentences could make a difference in a match. No perk allows me to coordinate a team. I can run de ja vu but if I already know the information, how do I tell my teammates?
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when I replied to your comment the other day to "just play with friends" it was ignorant and people shouldn't have to play with friends for a better experience. I had a match yesterday against bad teammates and I was punching the air so much omg it was a rough game. they kept making stupid plays and crap. I think what can help solo is make kindred basekit. I've seen people suggest chat bubbles or something that you can communicate to your teammates, but I don't know if that can work.
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[WEAKEST] Solo Survivors > Killers > SWF [STRONGEST]
Killer is way stronger than solo survivors, but I do agree that some people do exaggerate the problem. With that said, solo survivors can defeat killers, even decent ones. However, the expectancy of this happening are pretty low unless the killer is very inexperienced.
Yes, I'm all for making killers stronger to compensate for solo survivors catching up to SWF. 😁
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The fact that this is more common than not makes solo queue hell for me.
Literally would rather play with bots.
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And i agree. But the perks are there to lessen the issues and no one seems to use it.
Just like how killers complain about gen time, the answer shouldn't be "Use x y or z slow down perks"
Deja Vu is more for yourself. Kindred gives info for you team which can help. You can communicate builds in lobby on pc. There are things you can do to lessen the issues. I'm not saying that If every solo ran kindred then it would be just as strong as swf. What i am saying is that solo survivor's have tools to lessen the clown fiesta and try to limit miscommunication but refuse to give up perks. Should the killer be allowed to complain about not finding any one ever and also refuse to give up a slowdown perk for a tracking one?
I agree that Swf is way stronger than solo and i'm really on board to buff solo to try and narrow the gap. What i don't agree with is that Killer is also way stronger than solo. I think you can argue which one is stronger but i'd say they are close in terms of power it's just survivors never want to adapt to being solo and run the info perks that will help coordination and then complain about it and use that to try and paint killer as way stronger than survivor.
I guess we will have to disagree. We reached the same conclusion at least but i consider killer and solo survivor to be very close in terms of power if the solo's are willing to adapt.
Most people just suck at DBD. You average team mate in solo que is probably terrible. Buffing solo will not sky rocket their IQ. Solo que survivor could literally give you mega buffs to everything. Free info, free perks, faster vaults. But none of that is going to stop solo que nea from Urban evasioning around the map. Nothing will. People just try to use the fact that solo que team mates suck as justification for buffing solo que and try to paint the killer role as way stronger than a solo que because there are bad survivors in the game. I want solo que to be buffed. I just want an acceptable compensation for killers and when people say that Killer is way stronger than solo que then i fear the buffs killers would get wouldn't be enough.
But honestly there should be an option to play with bots or vs bot survivors or killers. Mobile has it, why cant we. Plus if a survivor dcs id rather have them get taken over by an AI than nothing.
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It's easy to adapt to solo survivor.
It is a 1v1v1v1v1, your teammates are out for themselves so you must be too.
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I personally run Kindred a lot. But it's not magic. And I can only spare one perk slot for information. Sometimes not even that and I've just learned to creep to a hooked survivor as I just expect the Killer to camp now. Most Solo survivors don't "cling to second chance perks" for fun. We do it out of pure necessity. The camping/tunneling/slugging in this game is downright common. We have threads complaining about it daily. And it's always the same replies:
"Oh PUHleeze! That's why you have to run BT, DS, and Unbreakable! EVERY match! You have all the perks available to prance away into the sunset! It's your fault for not equipping them."
Oh, ok. So that's what? 3 perk slots. Oh wait though- the best way to avoid getting hooked is not to get caught in the first place. You kind of need an exhaustion perk right? Like Dead Hard. Or Lithe because we all have to "Git Gud!". Chases are kind of a huge part of the game, and prolonging a chase is the goal. So that's a slot.
So what if I manage to get away from the tunneling Killer but he hasn't quite given up yet? Well I main Grandpa who has the loudest, ribcage rattling, chain-smoker's coughs, wheezing and gasps of pain. NOT helpful if I'm trying to stealthily blend with a bush. Probably not gonna fool anyone.
"If you don't wanna get tunneled y you don't have Iron Will, n00b?"
And I haven't even addressed the heal perk slot. I can't tell you how many matches I've had to run after a fellow Solo survivor, teabagging furiously so they'll heal me. They love ignoring heals especially against Oni. So screw that, I say. Next time, I'm bringing Inner Strength.
As I said before, Solo survivors have to create their build for complete self-sufficiency. We don't have the luxury of running multiple info perks of the 4 slots we have. Kindred and Bond with no communication are only helpful for one aspect of the game. We have all the other aspects to think about too.
To tweak a bit of what @NMCKE illustrated, to me, it looks like this:
[WEAKEST] Solo Survivors -----> Killers --------------------------------------> SWF [STRONGEST]
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I mean that's the nature of the game. you will always have situation's you don't have the perks for. Killer also has that issue. Miscommunication is the biggest problem in solo que. You will need to give up something for it. As a killer there are perks i want that i have to leave out because 4 is very limiting.
I understand the idea is selfish play and taking second chance perks is your best bet. But that is going to lead to the issues of miscommunication. I think Swf is way stronger than solo que and killer. But i would say killer and solo que are close.
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Swf is stronger than "solo"/"default" because theyre able to use third party software unaccounted by the game's design. Oh and obviusly they care more for each other than pubbers. You just dont consider calling that buddy you know your anger induced slurs when he messes up.
Swf changes a survivors perception of a trial ("we" win) and that sticks with people so they compare the default with it.
- The only mechanical advantage is comms, the rest is in the survivor mind.
- Any goodie added for those poor pubs will also be used by better players and *le gasp* swf squads.
- People tend to want to add stuff that has nothing to do with that solo-swf gap ("basekit ds or bond etc")
Of course solo is weak when its compared with a stronger version of itself.... duuuuh.
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I agree that Swf is stronger than solo. I also agree that solo should get buffed. What i don't agree with are people saying solo survivor is wayyy weaker than killer
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Glad to see you just didn't read the majority of the thread.
I still think solo survivor needs buffs. But i don't think solo survivor is impossibly difficult compared to killer. You are going to get bad team mates. Nothing will change that. the lack of communication can be partially fixed with kindred. If you don't want to give up your second chance perks and get hooked and see no one coming to save then that's on you. Killer's can't have all the perks they want/need, and nethier can survivors.
Also i have made it to red ranks multiple times as a solo que survivor. Yes there have been some ######### gong show games. But most of the time it's fine. Being able to talk to your team mates is going to stop the solo que caludette from self caring in the corner, it wont stop the sweaty spirit form tunneling you, it wont stop the basement facecamp bubba.
But obviously communication helps a lot. There are perks in the game that can provide some. (KINDRED). No one wants to use it, and then they want to complain about it.
The fact that you think it isn't close shows you don't play both sides enough and don't experiment with builds.
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Kindred does nothing when your team is trash
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Adapt. Agree 💯. Thanks for the post.
Especially the point about Kindred!
That perk has really helped me out👍🏾
Plus I enjoy the challenge of solo survivor. I feel like that's what would really happen in the fog: you and three strangers trying to escape a psychotic killer. No time to coordinate. At least when you first get to the fog that would be the case.
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No, even if every single person on a solo queue full team is amazing the lack of communication and teamwork instantly puts you at a disadvantage.
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Literally zero perks will help when your team is trash. Buffing solo survivors will not get rid of bad team mates.
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I agree. You shouldn't have to run perks. But if that's the case then netheir should killers. Gens should take way longer. I shouldn't need slow down perks. I also shouldn't need tracking perks to find people. That's bad game design.
That is where things are at right now though. And yes, Kindred doesn't provide communication. but it provides info that acts as communication. If i'm on the hook, my swf can say "Oh i'm getting camped guys stay on gens". With kindred, no one gets to talk to each other but you can see if the killer is camping effectively giving the same info
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Did you even read what I said? You only replied to one of the points that I made and ignored the rest.
And yes, bad teammates makes solo queue incredibly weaker. In a swf you can ensure that everyone on your team can play at least at an average skill level, you can't do that with solo queue.
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Couldn't have said it better.
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