General Discussions
General Discussions
Spirit Rework
Comments
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I played as nurse on pc some games at my friends house, and I could get ruthless on all matches at r1, the thing is that if you wanna compare training nurse on console and nurse on pc, nurse on pc looses by a lot if we compare by training time, Spirit on console and nurse on pc are the most difficult to max and have a good feedback on each platform, if you nerf spirit, console players would just stop playing killer and play survivor, what would make the MM a lot slower as most players play on console. So if you wanna nerf spirit without changing her absolute gameplay and turn her garbage, change her add ons. It is an old argument from me but if you change her add ons in some way that survivor would know what timing they would have to use the pallet window or DH, it would be already a kind of counterplay.
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Are you saying spirit doesnt require skill?
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I just said that didn't I.
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IM just not agreeing of they changing Spirit before nerfing somethings even more broke at the game, thats all.
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I'm going to start ignoring you if you keep talking about irrelevant things - console Nurse and PC Nurse are not relevant to this. Either add to the suggestion about Spirit changes or propose another one.
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If you dont think that Spirit requires skill, why dont yo play against an Optimal Squad as a new spirit? I would love to see that.
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thats how spirit tracks it will be the same on both sides. See heres the thing survivors are not use to using audio you'll now have a way to tell if she is using her power and the spirit player will need to be smart by avoiding the grass and listening to try and mindgame the survivor
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Nurse is far more OP then Spirit, Nurse need more training then Spirit but SWFs need just a little bit of training and they *win* the match, far less then Nurse or Spirit.
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I talked about her add ons and why they should be nerfed instead of her, if they nerf her actual gameplay, she becomes complete garbage.
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Omg. Did you not see my other replies where I said that I had played the Spirit before. She literally requires no skill - you get all the information you need handed to you.
Also you're proposing a scenario that isn't really common and so is kind of irrelevant here. A lot of the time yes, a try hard 4-man SWF squad will outplay you, regardless of killer but that's not the discussion here and once again proves that you're just trying to derail the thread.
This will be my last reply to you since you've ignored me multiple times when I asked you to stop talking about irrelevant things. We are not discussing SWF balancing issues, we are discussing the Spirit and her power. You can make your own thread about how you think Spirit is so hard to play and try hard 4-mans are awful and unbeatable. Along with the disparity between console and PC Nurses, if that's what you want to discuss, because this thread is not the place for it.
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What rank were you?
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I can see how this could potentially work, but I'm still unsure about it just because of the things I already mentioned. I think I'd have to actually see it in-game to fully understand it and try it out.
Would the footsteps be loud enough to hear over chase music? Because if not then they might not be very useful (for both sides).
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Im just trying to understand how would you guys change Spirit gameplay whithout breaking her, everyone here talks about reworking her but no one gives a idea that actually changes something or a idea that i actually possible. The problem of Spirit counterplay is real, but how could it be fixed is my question.
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only add on thats needs to change is amulet cant be used with speed add ons. Ring and amulet is the problem it allows her to still move at lightening speed while remaining in her power for a long time
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you would have the same advantage spirit does i would suggest you to go play spirit for awhile and equip mother daughter ring and track with her using sound so you can see
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Thanks for the suggestion, I'll probably go do that so I can fully understand your point.
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Well why wouldn't you just ask that instead of your first comment on here being, and I quote, "Stop crying bro, this game is so easy for survivors. If you complain about that you are just a baby survivor." It just came across as you derailing the thread and not trying to be constructive whatsoever. Then your next comments followed the same, unhelpful theme.
If you had just been direct and asked what you wanted to ask I would have explained my thoughts on this.
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The glimpses juse break the complete idea of the character, it would make spirit predictable and thats not what we want, there would be no way to counter pallet mid phase as survivors would have to just vault back the pallet back as he knows the direction you are going, it could be fixed by increasing even more the Spirit phase duration, recovery and speed buff, a good Spirit will get the wide turn to get you from the back of the pallet as you are probably gonna get there and drop the pallet to try to make her stop phasing and break the pallet. This brings up the problem that Spirit mindgames would be completely garbage and she would just be faster and have an ephemera that shows her location when on phase. Shw is a spirit, when she is on the Spirit world, she cant see anyone and anyone cant see her, her hearing pass throught the worlds so she can hear the survivor as well as seeng their scrathmarks.
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yea once you see how she plays you'll start to understand why anything more would destroy her
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I mean I've played her before so I do understand her power. That's the reason I think my original suggestion is viable but I've never ran the Mother-Daughter Ring when playing her so I cannot say that I know what it's like to track using sound.
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Sorry for that then, Im just annoyed by the baby survs such as Sluzzy that cries about DS nerf and such things, if we on console were able to play with a mouse ad keyboard, hillbilly wouldnt be innutile, nurse wouldnt be impossible to play as pc, survivors want to make the games easier and easier for then when the game already is, it is a common thing at the forum to see people talking ######### about killers just because they play solo queue and die by their teamates most time, the killer isnt op, the survivors that you are playing with are just Blendettes at the corner of the map with Self-Care.
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Survivors would know when she is phasing, if you remove the Grunts of pain/Breathing/Footsteps its already breaking her, if you reduced by 50% the grunts of plain as a distortion from the phase it would be kinda okay but if you remove Scrathmarks, it becomes absolutely non sense, Scratchmarks are made by the entity to notify the killer where the running survivor went. But I think that if you reduced by 50% it would be kinda ok, think with me No IW and Stridor =75% volume of grunts of pain and 62,5% volume of breathing. With IW it would be 12,5% volume of grunts of pain and 0% breathing as IW also makes no breathing sounds when injured, I think that footsteps should not be reduced as they are sounds that can easily be missheard if really low. But I like your base idea of your rework.
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I don't think that glimpses would break her character - they would provide some much needed information to the survivors. The frequency and duration of these glimpses would obviously have to be tested and played with to see what would work and what wouldn't.
I personally think that one every 2 seconds would be fine if it didn't last for ages and was "spirit-like" in a sense (so it wouldn't be really easy or too hard to see). This is because her default phase time is 5 seconds so survivors would get 2 glimpses per phase which is just enough information for them and the Spirit would roughly know when a glimpse of her will appear so she can prepare for that and potentially mind game the survivor. It would still keep it as a kind of guessing game scenario around certain pallets and windows, but it would allow both sides to anticipate and prepare what they're going to do next. However, testing could prove that 2 glimpses per phase is too much or too little, which is why I think the idea needs to be tested before anything happens with it, like in a PTB (obviously I know that PTB excludes console players which is unfortunate but at least some of the community would be able to test and provide feedback).
As for increasing phase duration, I believe that can be done with add-ons so that isn't a large concern for me. If it proves that 2 glimpses are too much then longer phases or increased recovery or speed could be a potential solution. Testing would once again help indicate that.
Also her ability to see scratch marks and blood would remain the same so it would not completely change the Spirit that players are used to and know how to play. It would just introduce a new element to her gameplay that people would have to learn how to use. Additionally, it would mean that Stridor Spirit would be skilful as currently it is just an instant win for a Spirit and too many Spirit players rely on it too much.
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To add to this comment, there could be an add-on where the Spirit can see where her glimpses are. I don't know how helpful this would be but I think it's a fun idea.
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If it wouldnt break her, it is a bad ting, because the idea of glipses make her bad, and if it doesnt make her bad, it means that the glipses would have a enourmous delay that wouldnt work properly for the idea of glipses
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Another question of you rework concept, would duration add ons change the 2 second rate for the glimpses?
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I honestly don't understand why not breaking her is a bad thing and why the glimpses would have a delay? They wouldn't move, they'd just be like the Spirit standing there.
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This question that I made was quote in your thread but I wanna know if in you idea yes or no
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I like your rework idea, but the glimpses rate is what catches me, its really difficult to balance the gimpses rate in a way that doesnt break her and still makes enough difference.
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Hm potentially. It could be a thing. I think phase duration add-ons and glimpse frequency add-ons should be separate things though. So like one add-on would give you more or less phase time while another would allow you to have more or less glimpses.
Putting the two together into one add-on would overcomplicate it I think.
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The glimpses are kinda the opposite of what spirt does when not in phase? It would have add ons like the cherry add on?
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What I meant by not breaking her is bad, is because my idea of what glimpses were was breaking spirit, it was like a path that she let behind everywhere she goes, so it would break her, if it was not breaking her, it was not good enough for the survivors to be considered a spirit nerf. Can you understando what Im trying to say?
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As a survivor main, I think that it would be enough. Plus I've had many people come in and tell me to call it a nerf rather than a rework because that's what it is so I think other survivors would recognise it as such and if they don't see the potential for both sides, then I guess that's on them.
As for the glimpses, no it shouldn't be a path that follows her, I hope my other responses proved that.
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Yeah, I understand that. I think the best way to find out what would break her and what wouldn't would be through testing so an amount of glimpses can be the default. I think add-ons that change the rate at which glimpses occur are potentially viable if done in a way that doesn't make her too strong or too weak. There should always be at least 1 glimpse when a Spirit phases - I don't think that any add-ons should allow the rate to be changed in a way where they do not occur.
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Now it sound kinda better, before it was like the prayer add on but to everyone in and out of the terror radius. I still think that reducing sounds by 50% and being able to see scratch marks could be better, or the mechanic you talked about of the cold breath but always seeing the scratchmarks.
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The glimpses would be like when a Spirit stands still to phase. It would look like one of the animations that she does while phasing, just ghost-like.
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Its what I said, 1 its very occasional, the 1 climpse should occur in a certain time, if it just occurs, it would be too bad, 1 glimpse is only to show if she is at your path or no, if only i glimpse, it could be if you can see the glimp just it happends in your field of view, and it remains for 2 seconds after occured. It would be kinda built in Premonition.
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Still, I think that glimpses break the element of surprise of her. As you said, there would be needed tons of experiments, and all the experiments with feedback of only purple and red ranks, because a baby dwight could corrupt the entire idea of experiment as he could say that 3 glimps are not enough and star breaking the entire idea of community feedback.
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Okay I got ur idea. But maybe it could be 1 glimp that dures 1 second and instead of standing still, it would show the direction she is going. IN my head it looks like if the phase bond weakened and came back, you know what I mean?
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I feel like you'd need opinions from a range of ranks to understand how she works across the board. Otherwise she would be balanced based off only one group of people's views which may not work in actual gameplay settings.
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That's why a I think glimpses should occur in a set amount of seconds so the killer can keep track of when it'll appear. 1 glimpse that lasts for longer could be a good idea however.
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If the glimpse spawned in as a standing still Spirit then it technically would already face the direction that they were travelling in.
It appearing like the phase bond weakening and coming back, as you said could be interesting to see.
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IN my opinion the average is purple ranks and red ranks, you get there in 1 week of playing, if you wanna considera rank 16, you are considering a guy that played 2 hours max. Thats my opinion obviously
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A static glimpse ould be kinda cool I guess
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You see... A lot of players insist she is uncounterable. But I beg to differ. There are a few things you can do to beat her. Sure her 1v1 is intense but what about huntress??? She has a sick 1v1 and no one complains about her. If Huntress catches you in the open or even at like a junk loop your screwed there is no countering her. If she can throw over it your dead. Deathslinger... Another one with little to now counter or even time to react. I feel like spirit at least gives you time to react. If she is phasing you know she is coming at you, and i feel like there is a lot of tools for you to outplay or even counter her. Windows are great against her and some perks even make it very hard for her to track you while phasing. Spine chill is super under rated against her. it is a staple in all of my survivor builds and i never have to respect her terror radius because of this. I also get a fair warning that she is coming my way and I have plenty of time to react. I just feel there are much worse killers to go against in the long run and that people just don't want to adjust their gameplay accordingly to do better against the spirit. Also if a team of solos that were all experienced went against a spirit they wouldn't have too much of an issue escaping imo. I've done some research and in that research I've found survivors that could run at least 60 seconds from a well skilled spirit. this is more than enough time in a chase against her. Yes her chases aren't the traditional mindless loops that we are all used to but there are killers who also break that tradition as well. This is all my opinion and I don't expect anyone to agree with it but I truly think all she really needs is a tell that she is phasing and a mechanic to punish using her phase in short bursts. this will let the survivor know when she is phasing and also force the spirit to use her power wisely. look at blight takes a good bit to get his charges back if you use them. Bubba as well. Even Billy is now forced to use his power wisely. but those are my ideas for her as I don't really think she needs much.
Post edited by ill_Boston_lli on0 -
it would break her unless she could also see survivors.I understand where you are coming from but you seeing the issue from only one side the biggest problem survivor has with spirit is that she can just stand still with no information if she is using her power or not my suggestion fixes those issues.
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I honestly think that seeing glimpses of her wont make a difference when you are running from a good one. It doesn't matter but If this is something that you want then in those glimpses the spirit should be able to see the survivor as well, because technically she is phasing out of the spirit world.
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