Survivor Bloodpoints
As a player that has been around DbD for a long time, there's something that always bugs me. Over the years, I have played mostly Killer. I always thought I wasn't really a great Survivor and didn't really put time into learning how to get better until recently, (say around a couple months ago, when the Bill rift started.) Now I have gotten to rank 1 for both Survivor and Killer multiple times, and can now say that I NEED to say this, because I'm wondering what others think.
In my opinion, Survivors get an abysmal amount of bloodpoints. You could have an absolutely perfect game as Survivor and STILL get less than Killer. Personally, I don't think this is fair. The grind in this game is overkill, and basically, everybody's only reliable source of bloodpoints is in Killer. This comes down to a few things. First, Survivors have to do a LOT in order to even get close to the same amount of bloodpoints as Killer. Unhook survivors, do multiple gens, survive in chase for a long while, cleanse totems AND get out of the trial ALIVE. Does anybody think this is fair?
You COULD argue that Survivors have some perks that help them with bloodpoints, like We're Going to Live Forever, but let's think for a moment. As a Killer, it isn't impossible to get hooks. Getting UNHOOKS however is not guaranteed. All it takes is one camping Killer and that perk won't help you at all. The other scenario is protection hits. So, you get a protection hit, and then the Killer comes for you. Then what? There's no saying that the Killer won't either camp you, or tunnel you down before you get all 4 stacks for that perk. Then you'd STILL get less than Killer.
So, what's holding back Survivors? There's no guarantee that you'll live. You could die within minutes of starting a game, and it just ends up being a complete waste of time. What could help? I had a few ideas. First, bring in more perks that help with bloodpoint gain. Right now, there's only 3 on the Survivor side that helps with bloodpoints, and only 2 of them are really worth using. If there were BETTER conditions for collecting bloodpoints with Survivors, they might actually get a decent amount for once.
My next idea might be a hot take, but here it goes. I think Survivors should naturally get more bloodpoints than Killers. Let me explain why I suggest this, before you disagree. When you play as a Survivor, there is always a possibility that you will die, no matter how well you do. At the end of the day, your survival and the amount of bloodpoints you earn comes down to the performance of your team, and you're playing as perfectly as you can. However, how many times can you say that you often live, without your team making a bunch of mistakes that gets you all killed? Solo queue is the best example of what I mean. This is why hardly ANYBODY solo queue's. Things can be different if your SFW, but is that fair for everyone else?
My point is this: A Survivor does not live every game. And even when they DO live, they can still get LESS than a Killer that failed to 4K. Dying sucks, but waiting a long while to get into a game, dying within a few minutes with earning less than 5K bloodpoints sucks even more. I think Survivors would stick around more/give up less/DC less, if they are REWARDED for toughening it out and continuing to try, until the very end. The system I suggest is RISK-REWARD. If you are playing Survivor, even if you're excellent at running the Killer around, there's no guarantee that you'll live. You could spend a whole game without being able to even TOUCH a gen, which -- alone -- wouldn't give you much bloodpoints at all.
What incentive do Survivors have to stick around if their team is struggling, they are getting camped or they are getting tunneled to death? If you are PUNISHED because of a way your team or the Killer is playing, you have NO incentive to stay, or to keep trying. I think Survivors should be rewarded MORE for sticking to their guns and bearing with the pain of a bad trial, because no matter what anybody says, Survivors always get less than Killer, and I think this system would be fair. Especially for Survivors that have to play without any friends to help them.
What do you all think? Do you think any of my ideas are good? What would YOU do to fix bloodpoints for Survivors?
Comments
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Don't get me wrong as I didn't read the whole life story 😬😉
But why should a killer not get more than survivors?
I mean it is a 1v4 so the killer has to work hard to get these bloodpoints.
And once you get better at survivor (as you said you think you're not that great), then you will notice that survivors got reasonable easy compared to killer.
So tbh i wouldn't even mind if the increase the amount of BP for killer imo
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It's fine. It was kind of a rant. But my point was that a Survivor's game can be cut short, and they'll earn a tragic amount of points for it, and it would just result in a gigantic waste of time. A Killer's game is not cut short, and they'll still get more every time, even if they make more mistakes than a Survivor would.
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Don't forget Killer stay in a game till the end, while survivors can leave or be removed early so obviously points per game is not an ideal metric. Still even using BP / time played survivors do seem to get less but the difference isn't huge. So a small boost to survivor BP doesn't seem too unfair. Then again Killer is much more intense as they have to be focused from start to finish on chases ans hooks while survivors can happily M1 their way through gens so there is a basis for Killer earning more,
Personally having been a survivor main for the first 90% of playtime I am fine either way. I would suggest boosting WGLF so you can also get 1 stack per generator equivalent completed. This would boost potential survivor BP a lot and discouraged the hook rushing at all costs that kills so many solo survivor teams.
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I agree that survivors get what feels like an unfairly small amount of BP. The average I see is about 15K, meaning that the most I or any other survivors get in a match regardless of rank is about 25K, and the lowest I see anyone get tends to be around 5K. The most I've ever gotten was somewhere around 50K, I think, which only happened once and only because there were several BP stacks going on in the match. Meanwhile I've been told multiple times that killers get 30-60K, easily, which would seem to match up to my own experiences in which the killer average is 25-30K (meaning that I don't see any extra points they earn due to offerings or perks).
I've also found it a bit discouraging that direct confrontation with the killer is more heavily emphasized than actually "winning", ie, escaping the trial. I see people run around playing musical hooks, looping the killer all game, who walk away with 25K. Meanwhile if I sneak about, heal everyone I can and do three of the five gens by myself I get like, 12K.
EDIT: Almost missed this. Yes, I've also seen that if I'm in a game for just a few minutes, ending quickly because I got a poor spawn and was almost immediately downed and camped by the Spirit or Wraith or something, then I get a whopping 3 or 4K at most. A single rusty toolbox for spending seven or eight minutes of my life trying unsuccessfully to have a fun match and make some progress? Now THAT'S satisfying.
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Well honestly, the killers game can be cut short too very easily.
It is possible to get out as a survivor in less than 5 minutes.
Been in those situations as survivor myself as a solo survivor, and as killer almost.
But that was more due to to survivors messing up with the last gen.
And in all honesty, i score on a regular basis between 20 and 25k bp as a survivor.
So i wouldn't say the amount is tragic.
And these are just base numbers as I don't run and perks for extra bp.
As I said a er has to work harder for these bp on his own to keep 4 survivors under controle.
4 survivors (even as solos) can work together and still get almost as much as the killer, and not even escaping
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I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying -- in my experience, after playing Survivor constantly lately, and remaining in rank 1 for a while -- the only way I ever get above 20K BP's as Survivor, I have to either use a perk that helps with BP's, or I have to max out multiple categories throughout the trial.
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What I'm gonna say is not meant as toxic or anything.
But once you get much better then you will get almost the same amount as the killer.
I play both sides and I don't consider myself the best or anything whatsoever, but I rarely get scores below 20k as survivor without anything to boost it there.
On a couple of occasions I even menaged to get 32k and almost 32k as a solo survivor.
And if you ask me, I didn't even try hard for it either.
Al I did was a lot of chases (which I enjoy the most), a few gens, unhook and healing, and on some occasions even taking protection hits for others.
But again believe me when I say that you will get better and you will see the increase in BP for survivor.
Edit: don't forget that the killer also have to max out multiple categories for their bp.
And on some killers that can become pretty difficult.
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Perhaps. But I feel like it would still not be very often. The amount of BP can still be affected by team performance. Maybe I am overthinking things, but they were thoughts I have been having a lot lately. I think, because Survivors can die quickly -- because making mistakes happens sometimes, and is inevitable eventually, not every game is going to be perfect on either side -- but all that I am thinking is that having those games that don't even last 5 minutes is more brutal on Survivors than it is Killer most of the time.
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I think you are over thinking stuff tbh.
You're bp are more a show of your individual performance than team.
Sure when you are in a chase and the others complete gens, break (hex) totems, you will get points for it as well.
The rest is more an individual score, the better you do the more you get.
Sure it really suck when your game ends quickly because the killer is camping you or something, but these things happens.
Best is to forget about that one and move on to the next
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You're right, yeah. I guess I just feel that waiting a while for a lobby as a Survivor just to die and get no points from that game is really discouraging sometimes.
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My brain always adds up all the survivor points together and compares them to my Killer BP. Survivors, collectively, are still earning a lot of points. Just it’s distributed unevenly based off each individuals performance among the ‘team’. I rarely feel like I earned a ton more BP then survivors, because I didn’t, I just suffered more so I could keep my BP and not split it among three others~
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I know these games where you are being killed out of the game fast sucks.
Trust me, I don't like these anymore as you do.
But not every game is like that and there are way more better matches than that.
And if more people would play killer that those survivor waiting times will go down a lot.
But that shows how discouraging killer is being made at high ranks, as they are usually pretty stressful which many people don't like.
And thus play survivor only and have some relaxing matches.
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I think that my thoughts were, it's not necessarily the team that contributes to your total, but their performance to keep the game going. If all the Survivors get downed within minutes, then of course, you end up coming out with nothing, because the game ended so fast. Games like that happen so wearily often.
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I agree. Though I have a lot of fun playing as Killer, since I try to make it fun for both sides. I get that not everybody wants to play that way though. Some want to just win, because that's what is fun to them. Personally, I think the game is more enjoyable when you expect to lose, but just try to have fun in whatever way you can.
Edit: Though, Killer is fun to me because I can play however I like. I can't do that as Survivor, because my team's enjoyment of the game can be ruined if I just fooled around and died. To ME, Survivor is much more stressful.
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As killer and survivor i always want to win, but.......
As killer I will always go for fresh hooks and try to get as many as possible, no matter the killer.
Trying to outsmart survivors and forcing them to play my game is what I like, sure not many would like that but then again everyone has their own minds on what they like and what not.
As survivor I will always try to get chased, simply because that is what I love the most of that side.
And I always try to challenge myself.
I barely ever touch items, I have times I run without perks and even play with no mither (iron will not included).
That is what I find funas survivor when I get challenged, whether it is by the killer or by my own hands.
But i will always try to get every single person out, even if it means sacrificing myself to get the others to escape.
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Yeah. I know everybody has fun in their own way. That fact will never change. My point was, I can do whatever I want as Killer and still have fun. In technicality, I'm still learning Survivor, so I'm not fantastic in chase yet, but I am competent on some maps. Map knowledge is very important. As a Survivor, I can only play to win, because if I didn't, my team would suffer as well. So it puts a lot of stress on me to do the best I possibly can in order to win, which isn't always fun to me. But I agree with you. Living feels good. Getting everybody out feels good. I always run borrowed time and whatnot, and getting the last man out because of it feels great, even at the cost of my own life. It's just not always like that.
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Both sides should get more BP overall. The grind is absolutely ridiculous. I feel really sad when people end a game with less than 10k BP. "Oh yay, I can buy three brown nodes.... great use of my time."
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Absolutely. This is exactly why I suggested an increase in bloodpoint gain. There's like over 30 Survivors and Killers, with 3 perks each, and getting that much will take an ETERNITY. Having something to help with the grind will not only keep veterans comfortable, but help newbies out as well.
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Not really. Unless you have an absolute ######### game you'll always walk out with at least 20k as killer. Closer to 50 with bp offerings and bbq. Meanwhile I could complete all 5 gens solo and still not max out objective.
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Honestly why not just give everyone tons of bloodpoints? Who ######### cares.
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I easily get between 15-20k BP without escaping a trial. Obviously there are some games I earn less but that's what I get most of the time. On the games I do escape I usually get between 20 and 25k BP & generally the killer will have somewhere between 25 & 32k BP. I mostly play swf with people on the official discord server who's skill vary a lot and most often than not I end up with a team of purple/green when I easily get to red ranks when I play a lot.
That being said I do believe we should get more perks at the same time on the bloodweb to reduce the grind.
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Or at the very least decrease the amount of bloodpoints it takes to get things. Maybe decrease the cost for addons or offerings. SOMETHING to shorten the grind. Anything, really.
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I had a game a while back as survivor where I earned less than 3000 BP! Why did I get less than 3000 BP? Because my team left me to die on first hook. Was the killer camping? I mean I guess if you can camp across the map chasing another survivor. (They had Kindred too!) I mean the killer did eventually come back to the hook, but they had taken so long anyway. After that, I hoped the killer would just straight up slaughter the rest of the team. I was glad when he did.
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Did not the whole thing sry,
But use
were gonna live forever
Borrowed time
Deliverence
Provethyself
And bring a map can track killer belongings or a toolbox to sabo
You'll be swimming in bp more than the killer in half your games before bonus bp
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Yeah, those games are always brutal. Makes me not want to play Survivor when games like those happen, but I always keep trying anyway. I want to get better, too.
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Again don't get me wrong here, but that has to do with your playstyle.
I personally have 0 problem getting 20k as a solo survivor.
Only rarely I get below 20k,but that has more to do with either me or the killer going only after only 1 survivor and throwing the game.
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Why play killer if you could wind up getting the same amount of bloodpoints finding 2 or 3 others to have funs crewing with the killer rather than being the one screwed around with?
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This is such a flawed arguament and I have no idea why its so prevalent.
You shouldn't punish one side for having a gameplay preference.
Would I still play killer if I got the same BP as survivor? Of course I would why wouldn't I?
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You have to grind every single Killer.
You only need to grind a single Survivor.
The BP earn isnt a problem. They only need to remove Perk Tiers and the grind is gone.
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Killer 100% of the work.
1 survivor 25% of the work.
Still unfair ?
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I don't necessarily think it's about fairness, but more along the lines of a ridiculous grind. I think just getting more BP overall would be good for both sides, without HAVING to use perks to help with BP. Every Killer runs with BBQ, just to reduce the grind.
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They could just reduce the cost of some crap on the webs, presently, if they're still putting moris especially the pink ones on killers' webs they need more bp for that reason alone to offset sometimes being forced to waste bp on a now useless offering just to get to a perk they want beyond it or to refresh their pages.
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Exactly this. There's a lot of things they COULD do to reduce grind, but they won't. I guess it's just wishful thinking to want a shorter grind. Even if 20K a match was average, 3K BP for a common addon is excessive and just a waste. Not to mention that a LARGE portion of perks are useless and not used. It can sometimes take days just to get the perks you want for ONE Killer.
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My point isn't that it's impossible to get points as survivor. Survival and Objective take alot more effort than the other two categories. If they made generators more rewarding to complete and added points for time in the trial it would solve the problem.
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