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Could someone tell me why so many complaints about the nerf of Hillbilly?
I just simply don't understand people who complain about the nerf they did to Hillbilly a long time ago.
He is a Killer with mobility of 4.6 m/s (or in other terms, 115% speed), he had a chainsaw that he could use it infinitely to move at high speed around the map (which makes him one of the best killers with mobility on the map), he could use it infinitely to oneshot survivors (which greatly shortens chases), he could use tricks like fast spin on some loops, etc.
He was a killer with many things and without any "but" that prevented her from using his power. That together with the instasaw addons made him one of the best killers in the game.
And we are not talking about a giant change or giant nerfs as happened to the old Freddy, to the Hillbilly base kit they have only added an overheat that makes him unable to use his chainsaw infinitely. Otz putting Hillbilly on Tier C makes me think he's doing it for being "mad" at the nerf rather than Hillbilly's current state. He even said that Hillbilly before the nerf entered the top 3 of best killers.
My only complaint about the current Hillbilly would be its addons, which the vast majority (if not all) are crap.
TL;DR: Basically I would like someone to explain to me why, SUPPOSEDLY, Hillbilly has gone from being one of the best killers in the game to being a Tier C killer because of an overheat mechanic. I just don't get it.
Comments
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The main issue was that his base kit was fine. Sure he had no cooldown of any kind but he already got punished for missing
His add ons were the issue and they were rightfully nerfed but his base kit got nerfed unnecessarily
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And simply by nerfing his addons and adding an overheat mechanic to his base kit he went from being one of the best killers to a Tier C killer? Tier C killer is basically being one of the worst killers. I just don't understand how that can happen.
The problem is that even Hillbilly without the instasaw addons was incredible, for its infinite mobility, infinite oneshot ability, fast turns on loops, etc.
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Because Hillbilly was only A tier with add-ons. Basekit Billy was a B tier killer, pre nerf - now, he is C tier due to Overheat, having arguably the worst add-on suite in the game, his many bugs and shadow nerfs, (phantom saws, the roar, increased chainsaw collision zone, prioritising pallets over survivors) map reworks screwing up his collision and making it increasingly harder to curve, and frankly just being outclassed.
But the main reason I will always hate the Billy nerf is that it turned a balanced, strong and fun killer into a mediocre, frustrating and unfun killer.
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My guess is, he takes longer to learn now. When you start off, you want to chainsaw all the time just to see what works and then work from there. Probably feels a bit limiting on top of the usual punishment for missing chainsaws. Once the fun phase is over and you optimise your chainsaw usage, you'll cut most chainsaws and only go for backrevs, pallet mindgames and curves at tiles for the most part. Then overheat should stop beeing an issue. Another issue was the addon dependency of some players. There were a looot of instasaw users before the nerf and you just cant chainsaw all the time until you get lucky anymore with his basekit.
His effort-reward ratio isn't as good anymore, but imo he is still as good as ever. He was great since release and the game only got easier for killers, so i assume it should favor billy who makes short work when pallets disappear. On the other hand, a good survivor can keep a good billy at bay and the average skill level has heavily increased over the years, so he naturally cant keep up at highranks anymore.
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Because the nerf was too heavy and unnecessary. He was a balanced killer, the only problem was insta-saw
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He has a cool-down whenever he misses/bumps into something.
So adding overheat is a double cooldown which no one likes.
He also no longer has a point in the game as he used to be the "average power but the most reliable" instant down killer but now due to over heat, animation changes,Roar,FoV nerf, and countless game breaking bugs makes him no longer reliable at doing anything.
This is in addition to being completely invalidated as he stands due to Blight/Oni/Bubba doing any specific thing he does better and are usually more reliable to boot.
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One his add-ons are now garbage so that still is a nerf. His animations became very sloppy making harder to keep track and follow survivors after a missed or successful hit and for less experienced Hillbillys it's an issue to get a hit.(But Shadowborne helps) The overheat willtimes deny you a possible down and at the end of the day overheat is you used your power which didn't ignore things like Nurse or curve around like Oni too much. From my experience toss on any overheat add-on and you'll never see it. The animations are too clunky and can be detrimental. Add-ons need a second pass but don't bring back Insta saw or crack Billy. (Mainly leafy mesh, yellow buckle, and the charge add-ons). Overheat although stupid I would be fine with it staying if they redo his add-ons and clean his animations.
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couldn't you have, you know, just read the complaints?
and then you would know what the issue is straight from the source?
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Do not use the argument of "if it miss/bump into something, it has a cooldown!!!!", because a Hillbilly who knows how to play it's not going to miss/bump into something, so you cannot consider that a cooldown/limitation. One limitation is like the Huntress, no matter how good you are, at some point you will have to reload your axes.
And well, the other nerfs you say were unknown to me.
That's basically what I don't understand. Why does Hillbilly with such high mobility, a oneshot, fast spins and no cooldowns mean it's Tier B? I would understand that it wasn't Tier S, because the Nurse and the Spirit are at another level, but Tier B?
Yes, not having instasaw addons have made Hillbilly worse, but that is the fault of the users, for getting used to playing a Hillbilly with instasaw. Hillbilly without instasaw was incredibly strong.
And well, I don't know those "shadow nerfs", I don't know if they are real or just some excuse to argue that Hillbilly is now Tier C.
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Try next time not to comment on my topics if you aren't going to contribute anything, your comment has simply been completely useless 😁.
And answering your question, all the complaints I come across are simply saying that it was "balanced" before and that it just needed the addon nerfs.
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I think he nerfed because of Oni & Blight.
Bill was free original killer but Oni & Blight are dlc and makes money.
I really can not see any reason of him nerf. He needed some add-on nerfs. He was fun and he had good counterplay. So sad, i can not see Bill so much anymore.
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Charge speed addons were pretty important for him as he can't just follow you around obstacles during a chainsaw sprint and curving is situational as hell and based around the shape of said obstacle so you need to use the sprint asap as soon as you manage to close some distance during a chase.
So removing his charge addons without buffing his base charge up time results in him having to be glued to you for seconds otherwise he won't have a chance to get a chainsaw hit.
Now how often will you have the chance to be glued to a survivor that knows how to loop? Exactly.
It's not going to happen in a reasonable time so he becomes a M1 killer unless you want to throw the game to get an "ego chainsaw down".
It is as simple as that.
The overheat mechanic further punishes him for using his chainsaw for map pressure. If let's say you try and curve-snipe a good looper without success you should immediately sprint back to the gens.
Now as you get there you see a survivor outpositioned but damn the chainsaw is about to overheat. Well, better luck next time.
I have seen actual god Hillbillies who would curve snipe at just about every map but even they dropped him eventually (they now main Blight instead).
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It's not because the nerf was too hefty, but because it shouldn't have happened in the first place
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You also have to remember a lot of the weaker killers are getting buffed like wraith and leatherface so that would affect his placements as well. That being said I still think he's a good killer but not top tier like he used to be especially if you take how strong a killer is with their best addons billy just doesnt stand up as much as he used too.
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His addons are now total garbage. Overheat while not a huge deal was just pointless to add. He became buggy after his nerf. The God awful chase music and roar. Insta saw was op and needed a nerf. The rest of what the did was unnecessary. They took the most fun killer for both sides and gutted him.
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Your arguments are the ones that have convinced me the most, but it's still not enough to put it in Tier C. That is, we are not talking that you have to be glued to a survivors for 10 seconds, you have to be glued for 2.5 seconds, I don't think something exaggerated, and reducing that time would seem excessive to me, it would basically be that the moment you start to load the chainsaw, you know you are going to hit the survivor 100% (like instasaw).
Hillbilly may not be Tier A anymore, but Tier C just doesn't seem to be what it deserves.
Guiding us by the Tier List that Otz made, Ghostface who is a Killer who has no mobility around the map and his oneshot ability needs to be "charged" (and then hurry to hit the survivor), turning him into a 100% M1 Killer, It's just as bad as Hillbilly, while Hillbilly has great mobility around the map and can oneshot a survivor without having to waste as much time as Ghostface. Because of this kind of thing, I don't understand.
By the way, Tier B seems to me to be the most balanced tier, and I think Hillbilly is there 100%.
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I'm telling you the same thing that I have said to Yamaoka, position Hillbilly next to Ghostface who in all aspects is inferior to Hillbilly, it seems excessive to me.
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he didn't go from S-tier to C-tier because of overheat. he went to S-tier to C-tier because he can't beat good players without instantsaw. he used those add-on to curve good players.
Infinity instant down is worthless if you can't hit anyone. Infinity mobility is worthless if your not converting downs quickly to move from one chase to another in rapid succession.
Its same Freddy and his slowdown add-on+Snare anti-loop. This game is balanced around generator regression/slowdown perks for killer and anti-loop because good survivors are able to complete in optimized time frame that makes nearly impossible for killers to ever have a chance to win. His add-on balanced the game-speed and most loops for killers are extremely unfair that killers need methods to cut a chase time of 2 minutes into something more manageable like 60 seconds.
Negative killer changes only hurt good killer players because they siphon and heavily limit the killer's skill expression with that character. People that do not optimize their play with that killer will lose regardless of how powerful that character is because they were not using that character's kit to their full potential. DBD is the type of game where both sides rely on both sides to make mistakes but the faction that makes least to come out on top.
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Not saying I would place him there but I'm just saying that he has fallen in rankings because of weaker killers getting stronger as well as more strong killers being released and he has fallen in rank and I don't think its too much to say. People have absolutely gone a little too far in saying that he's now even in the bottom half of killers but I would argue he's not even in the top 10 or maybe taking that 10th spot
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More or less this. Hillbilly WAS somewhat easy mode before the nerfs in terms of effort/results. Amazing mobility, instadown capability and anti-loop was a scary combination.
The nerfs were so bad however that it is now the opposite - for the amount of effort needed you can main any top-rate killer apart from Nurse and do much better. A skilled player can be VERY deadly but the effort needed is much more than for other alternatives. So a small buff would seem fair.
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He has a lot of utility, yes. But he also has very basic counterplay. Windows? Power gone, M1 killer. Pallets? About as good as getting rid of them as Demo or Leather, doesn't outright invalidate them like a few killers.
No add ons Billy was always kinda bad against good players. Insta saw needed to be removed as it was a complete joke but the Overheat mechanic and the hilariously bad add on rework was unnecessary.
It just screams of the devs saying "See guys? We do still make changes!"
He wasn't "incredible" unless you were against absolute potatoes.
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Which are also the answers you are getting here.
Seems like you created a useless discussion.
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Tbf tuning guide and primer bulb were kinda OP.
Otherwise though he was fine
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I meant his base. I've only seen a few people complain about his addon changes.
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Oh fair enough. I only started maining him after his rework but I’d like to try his old version again at least base kit
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It goes without question that the instasaw addons needed to go. But the overheat mechanic was an unnecessary change. It doesn't matter if you can use your chainsaw forever if you can't convert that into a down. Also, everything that hillbilly does, other killers do better.
Chainsaw downing - Leatherface
Mobility - Blight
Curving - Oni
Which begs the question: Why would I play hillbilly when I could play one of these other killers who is more fun and reliable, less frustrating, with a better set of addons?
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Same, except I mained him at the time of the rework
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Weak bait; 2/10
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Because playing the Hillbilly for one match against good survivors makes you realise that his chainsaw is NOT an easy instadown in a chase. Or even a widely useful one. It is countered by basic looping, windows, dropping pallets, most good tiles - unlike Bubba, it is very easy to avoid and not applicable in most situations, making Billy largely an M1 killer against smart survivors. He can be looped mostly the same as any other killer, and that's not what makes an A tier killer. Add-ons made his chainsaw much more lethal - whether fairly and skillfully, with the Engravings, or cheaply, with instasaw. But on its own, the Chainsaw is not a power where the downing potential is mostly in the killer's hands. Survivor have to make a considerable mistake to be hit by it, and Billy has to be ready to capitalise on it. This is simply not viable against better players.
Against good survivors, old basekit Billy had high mobility and map pressure, but not a consistent instadowning power unless you brought Engravings or charge time, which made him an A tier killer. Now that both of those are no longer available, (charge time now makes you 4.4m/s, Engravings make you overheat after three revs) Hillbilly is significantly weaker. Map pressure and mobility alone does not make a killer good. They need to have a chase power.
Look at Deathslinger. He has an incredible chase power, but suffers massively in the map pressure and mobility department, making him a mid tier killer. Billy has the opposite problem.
And no, C tier does not mean "one of the worst killers", C tier means below average. D tier is what you're looking for, and unless they nerf him again Billy will never be D tier.
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Play some games of Oni or Blight and then Billy.
You will figure out why Billy is awful to play now.
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Other than Instasaw, Billy was only complained about by players that weren't good. He was, and still is, one of the absolute best killers to go against. Plenty of counterplay, very strong, all-round fun unless you're new. And, to cap it all, he was pretty damn hard to learn.
However, the dedicated servers did an absolute number in him and combined with the change in PoV to make backrevs luck-based, the Overheat is punishing and unecessary, his add-ons are awful, and they also messed with his sensitivity a bit so that everyone had to relearn curving... I think it was a couple of months before?
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Billy pre nerf was a balanced fun killer that had plenty of Counterplay and mindgame potential. Playing against a good Billy was fun and rewarding when you dodged a curve or a saw in general. His nerf took a fun killer to play as and against and then made him a pain to play as. He's still fun to play against but not really the same considering most Billy's and just M1illys now. The people who try to justify the nerf by saying that his chainsaw was situational when it comes to curves are wrong. You could reliably curve every single loop in the game minus some super small circular loops and loops with weird geometry. The amount of mind games that you could do and the amount of crazy curves that you could try were endless. This Nerf punishes that creativity. Now it's only reliable to go for stuff you know will hit. You can't try anything new you can't fail too many saws. This makes him a nightmare to learn. Sure a good Billy could still make him work. But the only fun way to play him (flick billy) kind of requires you to run an overheat add-on along with doom engravings to semi compensate for the overheat. Which means you can pretty much no longer run double speed add-ons unless you want to overheat every time you miss a saw or 2. They took the only fun part about Billy which was curves and made it worse. The charge add-ons were broken we can all agree on that but his Base kit was fine and then changing it made no sense. And obviously a majority of the Billy community reciprocate my opinion because I haven't seen a billy in red ranks since the Nerf.
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Since they were slower than the survivors during charging chainsaw, they already had the disadvantage of being farther away from the survivors if the chainsaw did not hit them😟 And yet, it's sad that they added not only add-on adjustments but also an overheat system. I'd like to see some more remedies😓
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Yeah you missed out. After they fixed some of his animation oddities (like his hammer instantly coming into view after a saw and the cooldown being a little jerky) he felt great to play. The chainsaw took up a little less room on the screen, the cooldown camera and animation were both smooth and accurate to his 3rd person anims, his FOV was standard, the chainsaw wasn't incredibly loud and grating, no stupid roar, no chase music blaring at 300 decibels...man those were the good old days.
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Hillbilly was a balance for all killers. Why he needed a roar is beyond my understanding. His addons are bad and his so called overheat should be shorten a bit.
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His overheat should be basically the same as Bubba's: only increases while revving, after he starts actually chainsawing around and then stops, the overheat very quickly or immediately resets back to 0 (kinda butchered the explanation but I think you understand). Bubba's overheat is there to prevent him from constantly holding a full rev at hooks, and stopping players from literally spamming the chainsaw. Billy's was supposed to do the same but it does more than that now because the dissipation rate of the overheat is low and it's a constant nuisance you have to watch for.
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No, here they are giving me more arguments.
You've created another useless comment and ridiculed yourself, congratulations.
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There is no point of learning Billy instead of other killers that are not only stronger with better add ons, but also much more fun and less punishing.
Especially new players will not be playing him and maybe thats the reason why there are only so few people playing Billy now
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This is pretty much my opinion too.
Billy is tons of fun from the design, Air-Billy is redicoulus and I like nothing more than reving that saw and shooting to the sky over a hill. His mobility is nice and he sure as hell is a good killer to play when you get started with the game: Useful perks, mobility, insta-down and even a good backstory.
However the Add-Ons are laughable and do little to nothing for him. Most times I just throw in some to use them up and I do not feel any difference. Also the hitbox on his chainsaw feels weird at times: Sometimes you bump into things that are not in your way and get stunnes and sometimes you miss a survivor that was right in front of you. This could be due to servers but it just does not feel good.
I do not want insta-saw Billy. I just want a few interesting add-ons and more consistent hits / misses.
Still Billy was my first Killer and I like him. He is a good piece of work but needs a bit of love.
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First of all they need to add the yellow and brown cooldown and overheat addons as his basekit. If they want to keep the overheat they absolutely need to make him at least playable. His addons are USELESS because you need to run those 2 cooldown addons or 1 of them to at least be a b tier killer. Billy didnt need that type of nerf,but a huntress type of nerf. He has the worst addons in the game and the worst cooldown in the game period
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