Nemesis is a D tier, bottom 5 killer.

Imo his zombies are fine. A couple of times the AI decides to wander off into zones where they're really useless so maybe that's something that could be improved. His power though isn't that bad. The common complaint is the sprint burst you get when Nemesis hits you with his power, and I agree it's not really necessary. His tier 3 needs something extra too I think because 1 extra meter with your whip is really nothing.

I've personally had a lot of problems with the game just deciding to cancel the power even though I was still pressing the button. Although both need to be fixed.

I’ve played a lot of PHead and I’ve been grinding the Nemesis achievement, and I have to say I think Nemesis’ tentacle beats a no add on PHead shockwave in most scenarios once Nemesis is T2. It’s shorter range but comes out faster, doesn’t hurt your turning as you aim like Phead’s, you can flick at the moment you release while PHead locks in place, and if you miss the survivor you break the pallet to let you keep chasing as opposed to recovering, breaking the pallet, and only then being able to move on. PHead only wins in needing 2 consistently to down rather than potentially 3, and being able to hit through walls which while powerful, is situational.

the one thing I think people underestimate is Nemesis’ power prioritizes the hit over the pallet. I don’t think any other power that can interact with both does this. Chainsaws, shred…if it’s a toss up which it hits, the pallet is always chosen. Nemesis can chase someone, let them throw the pallet down, and act like a huntress to down them as they throw it. No other pallet breaking power does that and it turns it into a win win for him - he either takes the health state or infection, or if he misses slightly or waits too long and they dead hard, he still gets the pallet for free. I’ve seen so many people not realize he doesn’t prioritize pallets and go down very unintelligently as a result, giving me opportunities huntress would love to get.

I don't think comparing him to other Killers is the right way to go about this.

Blight is worse than Spirit, but that doesn't him bad.

Trapper being one of the weakest Killers doesn't make him bad either.

And, IMO, Nemesis is a decent Killer.

Tier 2 infection is where he really shines; Survivors that pre-drop pallets let you break them quickly, Survivors that camp pallets get Injured as long as you aim correctly, and Survivors that pay attention to the tentacle animation can be mindgamed and M1'd or Tentacled.

He does have counterplay if the Survivors are attentive and competent, but a lot of people just aren't yet. He only came out to live servers two days ago.

And even if they are, it's a pretty even thing for him or them to win a chase on most tiles.

His Zombies are RNG, but they will generally help out during a match.

Even if they never catch a Survivor they'll often deny loops or pathways to Survivors. It's a rare match where they'll completely useless - and there are about as many matches where they carry you (I had a game where a Zombie camped a central room; prevented a gen there from being fixed until I could arrive, ended a chase twice, and granted a free infection once - just as a had a game where a Zombie wandered aimlessly around am empty corner of the map while the other did nothing but get blinded repeatedly).

The vaccines also provide a not insignificant slowdown. Survivors unlocking chests and running to unlock chests are Survivors not on generators. 8 to 12 seconds of a Survivor not repairing can make a huge difference.

Nemesis is not going to be the next Spirit or the next Huntress, but he's absolutely a decent addition to the roster. He has AI companions and the vaccines - which is enough to distinguish him from Demo and PH IMO - and has a chase power that is strong enough to be worthwhile to learn.

Once you get a good feel for the tentacle, and throw on 2 gen regression perks of your choice, you'll be 3-4k'ing 60% of your games.

You will not be crushing Sweaty SWF Squads, but unless you were playing Nurse flawlessly, running Spirit or Blight with strong regression perks, or getting a lucky early down with a Killer that can camp very efficiently that was never going to be the case anyway.

Nemesis is a perfectly average Killer with a quirky and gimmicky mechanic to make him stand out.

Which is something I'm personally very happy for after the design nightmares that are The Twins and The Trickster.

Nemesis definitely isn't D tier and placing him next to Trickster & Legion is just distasteful. I'd say he deserves to be B tier and with a few minor buffs, can easily by A tier given he's just a weaker version of Pyramid Head/and Plague combined.

With that being said, his kit pretty much covers most of the basics. He has chase ability (including zombies), map information (zombies & vaccines) as well as map pressure (zombies pushing you off of gens, etc). The only thing he doesn't have is map mobility. Give or take, a lot of killers lack more dynamic to their power and just have 1 aspect of it whereas Nemesis has more, just like Freddy.

You say holding shift+w is the ultimate counter to Nemesis, well I say more than half of the killer roster has the same exact problem. This isn't exclusive to Nemesis as running away from a loop completely negates Doctor, Clown, Pyramid Head, etc.

Now if we were to compare killers, I could say once survivors are infected & you're tiered up (doesn't take too long), he's better than Pyramid Head as he can both break pallets with his power and bait his attack a lot more efficiently. Doesn't this remind you of someone? It should remind you of Oni/Myers, because as you tier up/gain your power through the match, you get stronger. Gotta earn it.

But what if we were to take a look at his downfalls.. I could say Plague is way better than Nemesis since Nemesis's infection does nothing other than allow survivors to be injured; something that should've been available from the first place, compared to Plague's which either forces you to stay injured & loud the entire match or cleanse, risking a use of her Vile Purge that can hit you from far away. Not to mention, his infection gives you a Sprint Burst away, Plague's doesn't.

Main point is, Nemesis is a good killer with a power that just needs to be tweaked a little bit. Make his "infection" more threatening, his "tier 3" have more to it, and stop giving survivors a Sprint Burst away just because they get infected. If the devs go through with these 3 minor buffs, he'd be a high-tier killer. But just because he has problems from the get-go doesn't make him weak, as a lot of other killers don't have nearly the same amount of diversity in their power.

P.S. I've played a lot of matches against Nemesis and I cannot tell you how many times I've been forced off of a gen because of his zombies. Good Nemesis players also like to push survivors towards his zombies, so you best bet I got injured a few times by them. They thrive in indoor maps, but even in outdoor, they aren't as useless as you think.

My biggest issues with Nemesis are the zombies and him needing 3 attacks to down someone with his power.

His zombie being part of his "kit" makes it so the rest of his kit can't be too strong by itself. If his tentacle was stronger the zombies would probably be too much in theory but the zombies, as of now, are absolutely horrible. The only time the zombies are useful is if they randomly decide to walk into a loop where you're chasing a survivor or when they interrupt unhooking/gens.

All of those scenarios are quite rare while the second one can be easily countered by survivors because zombies get stuck on basically everything.

This plus the fact that 2 zombies on Red Forest are basically non existent. 2 Zombies are fine on maps like Treatment Theater. It's a small map and an in-door map. Zombies can't wander around too much without being rendered useless. On huge out-door maps like Red Forest there should be at least 3-4 Zombies imo. Especially given the low mobility of Nemesis. He can't just zoom around like Billy or Oni.

His tentacle requiring 3 hits AND giving the survivor a speed boost on the first hit is dumb. It should bei either one of those but not both. Especially given how many vaccines are available on the map it gets even worse. Imo there are too many. I find myself needing to re-infect survivors way too much. So his power, which should actually accelerate my kill speed slows me down more often than not.

Sure, I get Killer Instinct whenever someone vaccines but this actually doesn't do anything on Nemesis if we're honest. Nemesis already has decent information due to his zombies and he probably can't even get to the freshly vaccinated survivor because of his low mobility.

I think Nemesis would be a pretty good killer if the zombie count would be adjusted on map size and his tentacle hit would be slightly reworked to either always hurt survivors (so the infection basically just makes them vulnerable to zombies and make them louder due to puking) or to not grant the survivors a speed boost on the first hit.

I mean seriously... Hold W is super effective on DbD especially against Killers with low mobility (like Nemesis). Having to go through 2 Speed boosts before being able to down someone is ridiculous imo.

Using streamer and even more so the bigger ones as comparison is useful as looking at the pro league player in league of legends for their outplay with the exception that lol matches challenger player against each other and not everything down to gold. The argument this Streamer can do a 1000 4k streak holds no value when someone from the top 10/5% of the community gets matched against 70% of the rest.

Sounds like a gameplay error of you.

If you know it takes ages to catch up to a survivor holding w after a speedboost why are you chasing them?

Go after the ones who are working on gens instead and leave the survivor who's most likely sprinted to an area without generators for later

Chasing through injure speed boost is how most genrushes happen

(Different person here) For starters, to me Billy is A tier, so better than Nemesis. As long as you don't over use your chainsaw then itll never overheat and with IF he can gain momentum in a game fairly quickly. Add Whispers, BBQ and Ruin and you've got a killer that can pressure extremely well. Even without those perks his chase ability alone when used right aswell as his map traversing is arguably the best in the game.

As for Ghostface, he's an M1 killer that's power only let's him get early suprise hits. Ghostface wastes too much time trying to stalk usually so ends up being a weaker Wraith in a sense. His power is almost useless during chase as his red stain being hidden can be done with any killer by turning around. Nemesis has a ranged attack that over time not only makes most loops hard too loop (as he's ranged and destroys pallets at T2) but also his attack is quick and more forgiving as a survivor can run into it after the release animation.

Most Ghostfaces wont go for that stalk for three reasons (me included when I do play him).

Number one, Spinechill exists and is highly rated. Not every survivor uses it but its prevalent enough to not take the chance and instead walk sideways to the survivor, which leads me onto my second point, his cooldown.

Due to his high cooldown for his power if you dont land that sneaky first hit then you're in big trouble as you are now an M1 killer that needs two hits. And if you do get it back in chase, then you're after wasting so much time for that second hit.

Finally, like mentioned slightly above, he's an M1 killer. Even if you expose the survivor, you have very little to help you in the chase. And as long as that survivor is beside a good loop or two, you're unlikely to get that hit off unless they're poor at the game or you are using a 99 tactic which doesnt even work that well against great survivors.

A killer with a chase power will almost always be better than a killer with no chase power like GF.

His zombies are bad without the detection add on, and so is he without his mutation rate add on. Slap those two add ons on and if you can be precise, I don’t see many flaws in chase.

i just made a discussion about it, but they’ve got to make a slightly weaker version of the add on base kit, as well as the detection rate being added onto it. Remove sprint burst from infection or make it so that you can injure + infect at the initial hit, you have 3-4 changes that make him into a really strong killer.

He’s just mediocre without the add-ons, but just like we’ve seen in the past, all they probably need to do is integrate his two best add ons (said perks because I’m half asleep). into his base and there you go.

I’ve played 20-30 matches in red ranks, as well as maybe 10-15 as survivor against him. I did lose games, as I consider those 2ks. Out of the them let’s say 30, 5-6 were 2k’s. The rest were either 3k’s and 4K’s weren’t an infrequent scene either.