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Can we stop acting like tunneling and bully squads aren't a problem?
Not every killer is a tunneling pos, but the ones that are ruin a significant time investment for other players. It's what 5mins min to get a game, 1min to load in, and then 2mins to watch your guy die on first hook because Bubba here slugs all rescue. This is mainly a low rank problem, as green and beyond gets the other issue.
Bully squads. I do enjoy having my max brightness screen boosted to 100 whith a massive white light every 30secs. It's vry fun to have my eyes ache from a swf group coordinating to just make my day terrible. It's the same time investment issue as the campers.
I'm don't have solutions to these problems, but can we stop pretending they don't exist. Every single thread devolves into "that's not real," or "you're just entitled" posts.
For reference I'm a killer main, and not good. I have to sweat hard to break into green ranks, let alone red.
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I got called a tunneler and a camper yesterday as Nemesis when I hooked someone with 1 gen left and someone left scratches all over the place behind him. I checked and couldn't find the survivor but took almost 30 seconds. Started to walk away and boom, an unhook. I chased the new guy then after the match was over, I was being berated even after letting the last guy have gate out of kindness, for "camping and tunneling". You can't win.
Post edited by AVoiceOfReason on14 -
This is so true, but sadly most people on this forum are killer mains and they defend tunneling and camping as if there life depended on it. It makes me sad that they see it as a fair tactic. They have gotten used to it so much that they cannot play without doing such things.
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Well, if you fix one of those problems, I'm sure the other will be resolved, too.
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Not every killer main is like that though. I like to bring up points of fairness for both sides.
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Well I have to thank you for that, not many killers like you are left in this game sadly.
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Also, sometimes getting someone out of the game after being left with 1-2 gens is a must if you want even a chance at winning. 2 survivors on a gen plus 2 alive is a guaranteed loss. Even 3 left is bad because 2 are still on the last gens while the 3rd is being chased. You can't always just be nice and kind if you want to win. I don't support camping and tunneling at the beginning of a match but when there is 2 gens left with 3-4 people alive, you gotta tunnel someone out.
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I'm a killer main and I'm not like that. But that doesn't mean it's not a problem. It's a massive problem in low ranks.
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Don't fall for the fallacy that centrism is the same as being unbiased, though.
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Alright, first off, the Devs themselves have stated and reinforced that tunneling and camping are both viable strategies.
Are they nice? No.
Are they effective? Depends on the situation.
Are they fair? About as fair as bully/depip squads, but much easier to coordinate.
Look on the other side:
BMing? Perfectly legal, but a dick move.
Genrushing? Effective, but a bit rude from a Killer PoV.
Depip squads? Fair game, but also a dick move.
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Correct.
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I wasn’t implying that the OP’s point was invalid. Just commenting on the perceived attitude of killer mains on this forum.
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True. I’m not going to pretend I don’t have my bias. Just like my thoughts on Hag.
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Not real? I don't see people denying its existence.
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For me, I don't care about how much tunneling someone wants to do. I care about what resources there are to counter tunneling. Currently you have to purchase Laurie in order to get an option, or rely on someone to have Borrowed Time in order to somewhat counter it.
There should be built in options for survivors who are constantly being sought after every unhook. Outside of a perk. That is my take on Tunneling.
As for "Bully" Squads. I think that word gets thrown around here much like Tunneling is. If you wanna talk about certain killers lacking in their kits for optimal play, because they get screwed over when they get a map with amazing set ups, then yeah l understand how the survivors may have the upper hand there and the devs may need to look at each individual killer.
I don't think anyone doesn't understand that they "exist", it's just the way some members of this community present them that is a problem. They do it in a form of a rant (which is fine) but then what they are saying has no substance when it comes to solutions to said problem, so it almost becomes a meme? (for lack of a better term).
It's the same thing with Camping, I always hear one side saying "Camping needs to be addressed immediately"... and the other side's response: "Well they tried something and it didn't work because survivors abused it". It's almost like I can quote it word for word at this point. First of all (again) provide solutions to said problem, and for the other group... so they tried something? Ok good. They can try something else. It's not like there aren't a number of iterations to balance that take place in a game, it is how balancing games works. They don't just stick to one idea.
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I can tell that ranks 1 camps/tunnel af too XD
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Your right. I don't think I have ever seen anyone one this forum, the subreddit, or twitter ever call into question the tactics you've described. This is a shame smh my head
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I repeat again what I have written many times: styles of play are not the problem! the problem is toxic players! DS got nerfed because certain survivors abused it! camping is wrong when it's toxic: you can't complain if a killer is on the last hook when the gates are open! he defends the one killing of him! now i want to joke: 1) swf shouldn't communicate while playing. 2) 1 shot killers should never camp hooks. 3) we have no reason to complain if we lose! we must learn to understand when a behavior is toxic or when we are scarce! 4) we can't complain about camping if we unhook our companion after a second it has been hung up! what should the killer do? it is obvious that he is close to the hook, he should give a shot because you are in a hurry? 5) permanently ban those balls that hit the hanging survivor! or we make a collection to send them to a good psychiatrist!
for clarity: I only survived game!
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Don't wanna get tunneled? Wait more than 5 seconds before unhooking. Don't want to see camping? Don't be obvious when going for the unhook and don't loop the killer next to the hook. So many times survivors cause the "tunneling" and "camping" by not being patient.
Also, as stated by AVoiceOfReason earlier the difference in pressure when you have three compared to four survivors left with only one or two generators left is immense. So, sadly sometimes someone just has to go to make up for the map design and/or split survivor spawns.
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Getting tunneled out of the game or facecamped til death should give at least a safety pip.
Bully squads will exist as long as survivors don't fear the killer's presence. If you can loop, there's nothing to fear and you can go annoy the killer.
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Riiiiiight... most of 20-80 player base is killer mains....
Beyond FAQs and mods (specially with the recent autoban "disscussion") repeatedly stating it's a valid way to play, and not reportable, watch any competitive DBD and you'll be amazed how much of that is "camping" and "tunelling". Like you'll litterally hear the shoutcasters go "the correct play here would be to tunell X aaaaand he's doing it, well played".
The game is quite literally not balanced around 12 hooks vs survivors with actual squishy bits between their ears and not things that make whirring noises. I recently did one of the tome challanges "Hook the obsession 15 times" so .... NOT wanting to do it 5-10 games i used a meme Nurse build, with no slowdown, Furtive Chase, Nemesis, Make Your Choice, Blood Warden. No slowdown, only ever going for the unhooker (the obsession).... and it's freekin Nurse. Now i'm not a GodNurse but i'm better than average i'd say so chases certainly wern't 2 minutes long "Hold W" fests. I was getting 0-1K for those games.... 0-1K and 8-9 hooks mind you....
Bully squads on the other hand i LOVE. It's such a big advantage as killer to know people are chasing you around, body blocking, trying to go for unsafe heals, flashlight saves.... and NOT doing gens. Most arn't nearly as smart as they think they are tbh. Hell if i see a lobby with 1-2 flashlights, i'm happy, if i see a lobby with 3-4 flashlights ow boy.... that's when the Lightborn, Agitation, Starstruck build comes out <3
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I've been tunneled since the patch Tuesday and I've lost damn near over 10 pips just today with this #########. Its getting old I rock the meta and it still doesn't help #########. Bad thing is they do it at 5 gens. Last game I was actively looked for just for a guarenteed kill no one else was hooked.
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I feel you man, went from rank 1 to rank 5 in about 2 days. You really can’t do anything when the killer is tunneling.
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As a killer main and as someone who gets tunneled frequently as survivor, there absolutely needs to be built-in measures against tunneling and camping.
I don't like being tunneled, so I avoid doing it as Killer. When I do it unintentionally, I leave the survivor slugged, so they still have a chance to play. Tunneling feels cheap and unfair, so I call it out when I see it only to be met with statements like "It's your fault for making the stupid decision to be unhooked." or "You were the only one nearby.", or "Why should I play how survivors want me to play?" etc.
There's a myriad of excuses for tunneling and none of them are ever justified unless it's two gens, two survivors. Even in a situation where you're at 2 gens with 4 healthy survivors, it's still not okay to tunnel. It's still unfairly removing someone from the game because you lack pressure.
It is more efficient to go after the injured survivor, but if they've been off the hook for no less than 5 seconds, you're not really giving them a fair chance.
Sure, you can do what you have to in order to secure that 4k, but just know that tunneling your way there doesn't make you a better killer in terms of skill, and it really shows when you play against efficient survivors who capitalize on your tunneling.
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Maybe they should add in a borrowed time effect standard and give Bill a new perk?
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So you don't tunnel even if you can't find any other survivor than unhooked one?
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Don't wrap every killer on this forum up into 1 bag as if we're all the same.
You have baby killers, and you have veterans. Any veteran killer will tell you camping is suboptimal because you basically throw away gen pressure for 1 guy. Its not worth it, and its embarrassing to veteran killer mains to even be lumped into the same camp as our baby killers. They are babies...they will learn eventually. Doesn't help when BHVR creates killers like the twins whos entire kit capitalizes on said tactics. But it is what it is.
Question for you though, have you ever tried some self reflection to think about the flaws from your own fellow survivor mains or do you only focus on the imaginary opposition made up by this game?
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Nope. I patrol gens if I can't find a different survivor.
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I know every killer doesn’t do it, that’s why I said MOST PEOPLE.
And yes I actually have reflected about the flaws of survivor mains. And then I realized that survivors can’t do anything to take the killer hostage such as placing them on a hook and standing in front of it for 2 minutes, wasting their time and not letting them get bloodpoints or do challenges.
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100% this. It makes me happy that there still is a small percentage of killers that can actually have fun and not sweat the entire game and ruin others gaming experince.
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You can change game but you can't change how people behave in multiplayer games.
Even if you somehow managed to get rid of tunneling and bully swf (which you simply can't), people would find other ways of being rude and obnoxious to the other players.
Best thing to do is make matchmaking better, so bully squads get very good and experienced killers only who can deal with it, and killers who rely only on tunneling to meet good survivors that will punish that playstyle and win anyways.
However there are really good players on both sides who do this sometimes just because its fun for them or they like to mine salt from endgame chat, and there is no way to do anything about it imo
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