Keys ..keys everywhere

A mori has the power to shape the game, which is something a key cannot do.

An old mori could come into play very soon, usually due to tunneling someone of the hook. That turned a game, designed to be 4v1, into a 3v1 before it would normaly happen, often before more than one or maybe two gens were done, thus changing the game dynamic in favor of the killer. From the moment of its use, the mori itself determined the outcome of the game in most cases, turning a game into a 3 or 4kill that without it might not have been happening.

Now look at the 2 extreme cases of a key, a 1 and a 4 key escape.

For a 1 escape to happen, all other survivors have been dead already, so up to the point the key actually comes into play, it was a normal play, and afterwards, its just over.

the same is true for a 4 escape (outside of a few rare cases where killers have and endgame build around blood warden and such), the key only comes into play after a normal game, when all gens are done, and the game is close to its end anyway.

Unlike a mori, the key didnt change the games here in any way.

The only part where a key can change the game is a 2 and 3 people escape. But again, the key doesnt shape these games, because gens still need to be done, so even in those cases (at least 4 gens done and one player dead or at least 3 gens done and 2 survivors dead) the game is further progessed normaly than it would be when an old mori was involved. Also, keys dont have the power to turn a lost game into a win, they just allow you to escape while still losing.

Thats why i dont think they are comparable. Old mori would best be compared with old brand new part, where (at least so i have heard, i didnt play back then) you could basicly skip doing gens and derailing it the same way.

Also, we know keys only account for about 3% of escapes, but i would bet that old moris accounted for a higher kill rate than that.

So summit: Old moris shaped games early on by forcing it into a state it didnt belong to, while keys only do something in the end when most of the game is already done.

No. Franklins got nerfed so it no longer removes the item from play after it's been "STOP THAT"d out of someones hand.

In my opinion, while moris needed to change, they overdid it, since yes, moris are basicly useless, outside of maybe avoiding a ds of flashlight save.

But before the nerf, whenever someone asked for one, the response was "but what about keys", and thus people though it might be an adequate compatision, which i hopefully showed why its not.

One problem with the mori change was never adressed though, the fact that some killers needed them to keep up with swf.

But then, in this regards, keys are a little similar, because between Dcs, suicides and tunneling killers, solo survivors need a reason to keep going when the first survivor is out due to one of that reasons, and to me, hatch and keys are that reason.

"often before more than one or maybe two gens were done"

I disagree, the first chase usually results in 3 gens done unless you got potatoes.

"Now look at the 2 extreme cases of a key"

Lets look at a middle example since that's more realistic than extremes. Lets say you want a 3 man key escape, you just need to do 1 more. Hell you could 3 gen yourself and get out with your 2 teammates. 3 man escape is a win.

"keys dont have the power to turn a lost game into a win"

Again, 3 people out is a win, when it could have otherwise not been. So I disagree with this as well. Even if it doesn't force a win it can force a tie at 3 gens done, which are pretty much guaranteed to the survivors. Again, unless they're potatoes.

"the game is further progessed normaly than it would be when an old mori was involved."

Involved maybe, but the problem isn't necessarily when the item/offering started effecting the game, its the "ok I'm doing well, I killed a survivor, I got a 3 gen, 2 of the others are on death hook -screen fades to black, results screen pops up- annnnd I lost." the same way before it was "ok we're doing well, thats just second hook, aaaaaand there's a mori."

"the key doesnt shape these games, because gens still need to be done"

And chases still need to be won by the killer twice for each mori, one to hook, one to mori. Keys can definitely shape the game, your priority becomes to kill the key holder, not just go after any survivor because if you let the key holder live they'll just get 3 man win early before the killer gets much use out of their main power point of 1-2 gens. Even then it doesn't do much because someone else can just pick it up.

"you could basicly skip doing gens and derailing it the same way."

Yeah like skipping the last 1-2 gens to force a win or tie, like a key does.

"while keys only do something in the end when most of the game is already done."

In any game with competent survivors, most of the game takes place around 1-2 gens. When can you use a key to force an outcome that's not the killer winning when they could have? At 1-2 gens. Again, the problem is it can just change what could have easily been a win into a loss or a tie.

Keys don't really have any counter the same way mori's didn't. Except now Mori's are trash and keys are still strong as ever, scratch that, stronger with the Franklins and Mori nerf as there's nothing to do about them. Was a mori nerf needed? Yes! But we also needed a key nerf that we never got.

wdym killers usually have to tunnel if they dont get a decent early game i rarely see killers camping or tunneling

and the post is exaggerating every second or third game but fr i see more keys than noed users in red ranks

noed is really only used in green ranks and below

Please tell me you dodge it. These people don't deserve a game.

Even weirder, they dodged me, in lobby, 3 separate times that screenshot is of the 3rd time I found them, they left shortly after

If they are scared to face a blight while they have 3 keys and a map idk what they wouldn't be scared of

Its funny that baby survivor mains are crying about spirit having no counterplay, but when something from their side has no counterplay it is fine 🤔.

Reminds me of the time when they straight up told us 2 months in advance they were gonna nerf instaheals, those matches were miserable as every survivor would bring them to the game.

There is a tome challenge where you need to escape with an ultra rare object and I ly keys and maps have those, so it might be just that.

I have morals. I try my best to 12 hook and not camp where possible. I like being fair and not running someone out of the game early. The moment I see a key gamer in my lobby is when I put my morals in a chest and say, "I'll be back for you later" as I load into the match.

Now I'm not saying I'm gonna tunnel vision and camp them to death. That's just not optimal play. What I am saying is I will not go out of my way to avoid doing those things. If you are in my way then so be it. If you bring the key your kindness privileges have been revoked

the things you just mentioned actually have counters. Camping killers=do gens. NOED=do totems. Keys have literally no counter now. Your only hope is that they’re all dog and are able to slug them all which is rarely the case. The fact people still cry about noed is baffling

noed gives killers undeserved kills so people will always be upset about as long as it rewards bad killers