Who else would rather have old ruin?
I hate the new ruin with a burning passion and there's a reason like half of the killers use it especially with undying. I want to be able to go back to a time where I can actually let go of a generator to unhook someone and not have it regress back to 0%. All it took was getting good at great skill checks and then it wasn't that big of a deal. The rework was definitely a buff and I would trade having to get only great skill checks for multiple gens regressing in my face any day.
Undying has only exacerbated the issue and just made 2 buffed ruin totems.
Return to old Hex: Ruin!!!
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nah old hex ruin was not very good against experienced players, while new players had no chance, and anyways i like newer ruin, it takes the killer skill to keep survivor off gens , while old ruin was based on the survivor skill on skillchecks...
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I honestly wouldn't call standing near a gen and having it regress at the fastest speed possible very skillful...
It's literally the least amount of pressure a killer can exert on survivors and gets massive results.
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I don't want the gen tapping times back.
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if they stand next to one gen to let it regress, just do a different gen, a killer doing this will only work out for this if 1). there are not enough survivor alive or 2). if there is a three gen
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Aight now imagine old ruin with Undying
:')
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People refuse to admit it was a buff.
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The problem is that it's just passive regression. If a killer ends up hooking just 1 person, that means 1 person has to let go of a gen to get the unhook and if the killer quickly finds another chase that's 2 gens regressing. All you have to do as a killer is just play the game normally and get huge results.
And then there's the fact that you actually have to stop doing gens (regressing) to run around the map to find and break the totem, and if they have undying you have to do it twice! It's just massive pressure on survivors just for a perk slot (and two if you want undying).
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This lol
You're insane if you want old Ruin back over new. As someone who can reliably hit greats that perk may as well not have existed.
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Yes, ontop of all the BS new players have to deal with
Old ruin really needs to make an appearance... /s
Also, not like Undying exists or anything else...
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They reworked it because the kill rate was too high with it. Everybody complained so they finally "nerfed" it. They even confirmed that the kill rate got lower when they reworked it and that's basically only because the newer players didn't have to deal with it.
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True, but I still consider new Ruin way stronger as it can actually affect good players now. As the other guy said, the fact that its based on the killers abilities now and not hoping the survivors are bad is much better.
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Well I agree that it should be based off of the killer's abilities I don't feel that the new ruin does that at all. You can literally just play the game normally, hook people and get chases quickly and it does so much work on it's own. It's way too passive for a huge reward.
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It's an easily destroyable hex perk though. It's what most hexes should be. A strong perk that has the capability to be removed from play.
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first off, there are multiple perks, and maps to find totems... Detectives, Counterforce, Rookie, Small Game, Object of obsession and Distortion(since you are talking about undying) … and multiple perks to increase cleansing speed... Counterforce (again), Leader, Object of obsession(again),Resilience, Spine Chill... and one perk to counter ruin while its still up... Repressed alliance... after all this and the fact that killers need to rely on slowdown perks most of the time.. there is no reason new ruin isn't better
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So I now need to modify all of my builds and my play style just to counter 1 perk? That doesn't seem fair at all. and I agree that the meta shouldn't be based around regression because regression is just boring to use and play against, but I feel that new ruin is too far. I don't understand why people had such a problem with hitting great skill checks, I get it for newer players but if you had any amount of time in this game and couldn't hit greats the problem is not ruin.
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It's also based completely on RNG and the spawn. Sometimes it spawns in an impossible to find location. There are also ways to influence it staying up longer like hooking somebody near it and camping both a person on a hook and your totem.
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okay then the same thought the other way around, why should killers have to bring perks like stridor to block ur iron will, blood echo for ur deadhead, regressing perks for all ur repair speeds... ??? almost every perk counter another perk in some way and that's how it should be... no perk should have no counter.
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Those aren't really comparable because you can counter Iron Will by just using your eyes and tracking by line of sight, blood, and scratch marks, and you can counter Dead Hard by waiting it out or pressuring them to dead zones. You can't use your skill to counter Ruin, the second you let go of a gen it starts regressing and there's nothing in your power you can do except for running around the map and hopefully finding it before it does too much damage. You can counter any survivor perk by just using your skill as a killer without the use of perks but it's not the other way around with survivor.
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you defiantly CAN you ur skill to counter ruin, your skill on finding totems ( like a killer skill to track a player) looping a killer so they have no time to chase people off gens, grouping together so you one can hop off without the regress.... please name some killer perks that cant be countered..
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If matchmaking worked, as survivor I would want the old version and it's not even close, Undying or not. You could just power through that one. It only mattered when you got people who couldn't hit skill checks (so, basically every trial sigh). That's why I mentioned matchmaking.
As killer, new Ruin is probably a lot stronger on fast killers, especially because it pairs up so well with Tinkerer.
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Not if the killer just decides to leave you and go pressure gens. There also is no skill to finding totems if it's a completely random spawn especially on maps like Lery's that is so huge and complicated it's impossible to look in every nook and cranny. The killer is the force that drives the flow of the game and they can always just ignore you to get use out of their perks.
And to your other question how do you counter something like Pop Goes The Weasel with your skill alone? If a killer wants to pop your gen they will do it with or without your consent.
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Yes this is exactly what I think.
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Ew no. If you had teammates who couldn't or wouldn't do gens with ruin up and it was in a good spot the killer could go on 4 minute chases and still win anyway. And now it'd be paired with undying as well. And pop, which would synergise with it again.
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Yes, Pop working with it would be the biggest drawback for sure.
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Not really. For me, I preferred old Ruin over new Ruin, I was able to hit great Skill Checks like 8 or 9 times out of 10. The progression was still slower (because there was no Bonus Progression for hitting the greats and I did not hit all Greats), but at least a Gen cannot regress from almost finished to 0 with old Ruin.
However, old Ruin was a terrible designed Perk. It did not do that much against good Survivors but was very frustrating for new Survivors. Also, it was effortless Slowdown, the Killer just got the Slowdown for equipping a Perk. While the current Slowdown-Perks are also not really a pinnacle of Skill, the Killer at least has to do something to make them work, as little as it is.
Also, old Ruin and Undying would be really annoying. Let alone that the synergy with PGTW would be back and I dont really want to play against Killers who use Ruin/Undying/PGTW.
Ruin and PGTW was already annoying enough and I can imagine for less experienced Survivors, it was simply killing the fun - you struggle with hitting Greats and then the Killers comes around and kicks away the little progress you had.
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alright sure, some perks like this have no counter stridor included(I think that's passive)... ill give you that, but its the same way on the other side no I believe there are survivor perks that cant be countered?
and also if you have seen the disgusting spawns of totems you would know the rng usually works against the killer.
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I’ve felt exactly the same for a long time. Someone goes down and gets hooked. Staying on the gen is the wrong decision. Getting off of the gen to rescue is also the wrong decision. I hate current Ruin.
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Just to debunk the last statement of any survivor perk, yeah I can totally counter distortion by my skill of not running aura reading (just don't being such overgeneralized and blown up arguments 😑)
Edit: Also sorry but I can't 😂eyes as counter to iron will. That sound just like a good counter against all stealth or undetectable from the killer side.
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I hear that a lot but in my experience as a survivor and killer I don't agree with it. The spawns may not be the greatest but ruin + undying has such a huge use rate for a reason. Just in general I do wayyy better in my games when I use ruin + undying VS. the games where I use no/poor regression perks like surge. Sure the spawns can be bad but it's always worth it to use ruin (albeit with something else like undying or pop). If the spawns really were that bad nobody would use ruin and everybody would think it would be terrible.
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It does give the option of becoming a new perk, in some sort of nerfed form.
The thinking behind this is having both old and new Ruin together would be too much. Maybe as a perk where the killer can set it up on specific generators, or it activates on all gens for a limited time (a perk with a cool down, or a perk which activates as a Hex when 4 gens are left, maybe?).
I'd be happy having both around, were the above to be the case.
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undying used so much because of the terrible spawns, if the spawns werent terrible new undying wouldnt be used as much with ruin as it is now, tho i think the undying change was a buff to stack hexes.
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and i am agreeing on some maps have way 2 hard to find spots, but on MOST maps the totems spawn are way to easy to find
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I mean if you want to get technical about it you can hook survivors 3 times and then Distortion is completely countered.
Also you injured them when they were healthy... right? How could it be possible that you were able to hit somebody that wasn't moaning constantly? I don't think it's possible. It's totally not like a healthy survivor is literally just a survivor with Iron Will and not bleeding.
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Yes old ruin was worse against newer player than skilled ones but it also functioned as a filter for the matchmaking.
You aren't good enough to hit greats more than half the time? Sorry you simply don't belong at the top of the rank ladder.
In times of old ruin, the bell curve of survivor player base in terms of skill and it peak wasn't shoved over 50% into red ranks where they clearly don't belong.
Admitting there was non in that regard for killer but killer pipping is already harder than survivor given they don't even have the option of boosting via swf (coms or not).
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Well this turned into a debate about spawns which is not my original point and I agree that there should be less RNG in general, good spawns or bad spawns should just become more consistent which I think you would agree with.
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That comment was just to tell you that "line of sight" against iron will is one of the most ridiculous forms of "counter" that I ever heard. Just like a killers best counter against healing is hitting them again -.- that's not a counter in my book but logic born from the basic gameplay. A counter is something like the mentioned distortion against aura reading or dropping a key against old Franklin's.
And just fyi I am one of those killers that go for 8 hooks before killing anyone to be "fair" and "fun" for the survivor so i leave freshly unhooked survivor and if they have iron will and hide in alcove or behind stuff, your proposed counter does nothing.
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well they do go in hand to hand but i think there should be less rng, atleast on how hard or easy they are to find, but spawns should be random still
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My point was that you are able to counter Iron Will in the same way as you can still injure a healthy person very easily, by just using your skill as a killer and your other senses. Footsteps, scratch marks, and blood is still a thing.
Why I originally said this is because I was making a point about how a killer can basically counter every survivor perk by using their skill whereas a survivor can't counter something like Pop Goes The Weasel with skill alone. The killer will just pop your gen with or without your consent.
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Old ruin was even more egregious than old mettle of man
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I would love to have Old Ruin back.
It was a very good perk, which added skill to Skill Checks and helped slow the game down...just a little bit.
Also, its synergy with Pop was sweet!
Not in the slightest. Ruin lasted for roughly 3 years, while MoM lasted for what? 1 week?
There is a very big difference between the 2.
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Exactly, that’s 3 years new players were being gatekeeped from the game
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3 years of new players learning Skill Checks in the best possible manner while learning the importance of cleansing Totems.
Old Ruin was extremely healthy to the game.
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Free wins for killers at low ranks is healthy?
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Since when was Ruin a free win? It was, mostly, RNG. Get a bad totem spawn and you are screwed, even on low ranks. Besides, you wouldn't see Ruin on your very first trials unless matchmaking was weird or the killer was a Hag.
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Tbh I do kinda miss old ruin skillchecks, back when it was an actual skill check, but maybe that's nostalgia talking. I definitely hate playing against new Ruin a lot more though just because it can make matches slow to a ######### crawl and it turns into "who can stay awake the longest".
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Same, my friend. Same.
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As a vet, I just miss the hard skill checks. I actually had to try when doing a gen. But new players couldn't handle it, so it had to be changed.
Maybe they could add occasional red skill checks as a base mechanic.
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Isnt that a skill in itself tho? Being able to land great skill checks is what separated good survivors from the bad. Again why are we cantering to rank 20's they're brand new at the game they're gonna have no chance no matter what perks the killer is using. Kicking survivors off gens isnt...that hard? its legit just walk around that gen for a bit and boom its regressing. That's like saying Corrupt takes skill to keep survivors off the only 3 remaining gens.
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old Ruin was a thoroughly flawed Perk, design wise.
it not only was 100% RNG reliant, it also punished new players for being new and had pretty much no effect on good ones.
it is for the better for this games health they reworked it.
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