I am sick of "Press E to outplay"
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I doubt they will nerf DH.
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Why?
They nerfed DS, BT, BL, MoM?
Could easily nerf DH. Just make it not work 50% of the time.
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why? just tell/show me what the counter is.
also, not on pc.
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Well
DS - Was total bullshit since it's concept and for years the most broken perk in the whole game
BT - Well it got buffed / nerfed and again, the original concept was again, broken perk that people abused to rush the killer and killer could do nothing about it (hello end game)
MoM - Original version ... no comment...
BL - It got nerfed / buffed (no sound is pretty good) and I think it got nerfed thanks to maps like Hadoffield where there can be still infinite loop there, how amazing (or almost a infinite).
But DH on it's own dosn't sound like a broken perk(?) so I more doubt they will not nerf it.
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it isn't equivalent.
other exhaustion perks get used right away or early on. you can't hold on to sprint burst or lithe without sacrificing something else in return. meaning you, as a killer, only wasted a bit of time before seeing the exhaust perk in action. upon which you decide if you have the time to continue chasing the survivor or not.
dead hard on the other hand, is only used after 2 chases. 1 chase for the first health stage, and then the second one. meaning at that point you already invested a lot of time on downing this survivor.
this is why they are not equivalent. and why at high ranks you see 4 dead hards and not 4 sprint bursts
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Bummer. I fear this is complicated more then a direct answer: Bait out dead hard by imitating m1s (janky movement, faking abilities/pressing M2).
If the killer has to deal with the consequences of a dead hard and lost, it was probably the culmination of many mistakes. Not DH.
Learn tiles. Learn the respective killers ability. Learn to read a survivor.
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you can't bait dead hard for distance.
either they are in range for an attack and would have dead harded anyway. or they aren't in range and wouldn't dead hard anyway.
what you are asking for... is for the survivor to screw up their dead hard.
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What I am saying is if a killer is blaming a loss on a DH, they are not shining a light on errors in other parts of their game play. Not chasing well in general can exacerbate the effect of an exhaustion perk.
If it takes a killer fifty seconds to get a hit on average, I could see how a DH is really harmful to their already porous gameplay.
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the issue is, dead harding for distance has no counters.
both can play perfectly, that is still the case.
if your counter is "win the game despite it", you don't have a counter.
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And bloodlust? You don’t need to press any key to win it. This not make you sick too?
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Using this logic, use at a distance, how do you counter any exhaustion perk?
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Mfw dead hard is meant to be used in an aggressive playstyle to help your team escape the killer's clutches, but people think its for distance.
Just another perk being abused. Nothing new here. Best you can do is learn to live with it, because I don't see it getting changed.
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The places you can bait it out isnt what the person is frustrated with. Its when you outplay the survivor and tgey just delete their mistake with E, OR when they use it for distance. Its a truly ignoring perk.
Honestly just delete all exhaustion perks and noed. Neither are good for the game imo.
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But then the pallet is gone sooner and i can either continue chasing you or move onto someone else sooner. The key word here is sooner
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Then the pallets are gone sooner. SOONER. How is this difficult to understand?
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not "at a distance" FOR distance.
and as I said in another reply...
it isn't equivalent.
other exhaustion perks get used right away or early on. you can't hold on to sprint burst or lithe without sacrificing something else in return. meaning you, as a killer, only wasted a bit of time before seeing the exhaust perk in action. upon which you decide if you have the time to continue chasing the survivor or not.
dead hard on the other hand, is only used after 2 chases. 1 chase for the first health stage, and then the second one. meaning at that point you already invested a lot of time on downing this survivor.
this is why they are not equivalent. and why at high ranks you see 4 dead hards and not 4 sprint bursts
and, when someone said how sprint burst is worse than dead hard for the killer...
I'll never get these... sprint burst is very easy to deal with.
As in, if you can counter it because you are using one of the many killers with some sort of a speed boost, counter it. (Billy, wraith, nurse, oni, blight, legion, spirit, twins(victor), to a smaller degree clown and bubba, also freddy and demo depending on where they can teleport)
If you are a killer with traps set up to deal with it, sb means nothing. (Trapper and hag, technically twins if you have one of the brothers there, also zombies.)
If you have some slowdown that applies to the one with sprint burst, use it. (Clown, freddy, hag with slowdown traps)
If you are a ranged killer, hit the shot.(huntress, deathslinger, corrupted plague)
If you have stealth, use it well. (Ghostface, pig, demo, wraith, anyone with a stealth perk)
Meaning what? Michael, doctor, pyramid head, trickster and nemesis that don't have something on their basekit to deal with sb on the spot?
Well, at least you know right away to go for someone else, instead of wasting time on someone just so they can press a button and reset the last chase.
Edit: oh yeah... this all disregarding any killer can just equip mindbreaker.
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Just wait the DH, if you wait you dont get tricked by it, you just get tricked if its used to get to a pallet.
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For those of us who only play DBD on console can you please explain what the keys you push do. I am completely lost on what people are talking about like holding M1 etc
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you can't bait dead hard for distance.
m1 is the regular action button. does gens on survivors, attacks on killer.
e is X on playstation and A on xbox. the default dead hard button
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Agree 100%. It's especially frustrating on killers with ranged attacks, namely PH in my case, since you can make a perfect read and still not hit them because they pressed the skill button. I at least respect Sprint Burst since people can be creative and 99 to avoid a hit, plus there's the downside of not being able to sprint without using it.
It's even worse against Trapper, since they can completely negate a trap and force you to pick it up or go around.
I can see 3 ways to make it less annoying.
- Remove the I-frames so it's solely used for gaining distance
- Remove the dash forward and keep the I-frames
- Keep it as is, but remove the ability to use windows/pallets for 1.5-2s after using it
Personally, I would go with option 3 since it keeps the perk powerful while adding a downside.
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Dead Hard is basically survivor's noed, just a perk that helps you when you play poorly.
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then press "W to outplay" rather than "M1 to fall for it"...
- if you get that one extra loop by pressing E then you really just got an additional 4 seconds of chase, which is not very much.
- if you consider "I failed but got saved by E" as a problem, check how often you can counter dead hard by just waiting and how less of value a single extra loop is and how often the "fail corrected" scenario actually is a thing compared to the weak dead hard scenarios
- escpecially compare that to "drop to outplay" or "vault to outplay" and how easy it is to get way more than 4 seconds of extended chases with these perks
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That and noed are the ultimate killer crutch
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Idk it seems they are just looking for something to blame their failures on. I dont even use DH in any of my matches and killer still cant get hits good in so....i am still not convinced DH is the actual problem here.
But, if you want to remove DH sure, but then i want the killers lunge attacks also gone to make it fair, then i wont need a perk for ditance if the killer cant lunge at me from meters away.
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Yawn - this again?
As a killer I LOVE going against DH users - much more so than Sprint Burst or Lithe.
As a survivor I have used DH MAYBE 5 matches in my approx 1700 hours as survivor (Approx 1800 hours as killer).
I love when survivors use Fail Hard. :)
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Sprint burst ist not really more annoying than DH, it feels way better to face SB than DH.
Dh has no counterplay AT all in certain situations, especially in loops.
It boggles my mind how so many survivors think it has when it really has not. Its also not just "4 extra seconds". Simply a lie, that anybody who played this game for more than 100 hours should realise, but well i am used to that.
Of all exhaustion perks this is the worst designed. The existence of stronger perks is also no justification for a perk beeing completely broken. This argument is nonsense. "Press W to outplay" does not exist.
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The lunge isnt remotely comparable 😂 what i said is remove all exhaustion perks AND noed.
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Saying "Press E to outplay" sounds clever, until you realize we're all playing a video game and that anything you do to outplay the other side is literally pressing a button or some buttons.
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They also go DeAd HaRd will save you... and then scoff or sigh when they see the E button get played.
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That one extra loop leads to a pallet that in turn resets the chase and their stuff up.
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You'd rather play a pallet to pallet drop simulator? Be my guess
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Thats what happens now though, what are you talking about 😂 were talking using dead hard to get an extra loop. Its still going from pallet to pallet with the occasional TL
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I've lost count on how many chases I've won because the survivor ran DH and got greedy about it. Most survivors don't even know how to use properly anyway.
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Yeah sure the occassional survivor gets greedy.
Most survivors YOU FACE dont know how to use it properly. Its stupid rare for me to run into a survivor that messes it up.
Theres 2 situations that get brought up constantly and for good reason:
1). You out play a survivor at a loop, they press the button and are able to then make it to a pallet or vault, depending on the survivir and area this can extend a chase 15 seconds or more which is HUGE in red ranks.
2) They use it for distance to get to a vault or pallet, same issue as before.
15 seconds doesnt sound like a lot, but if 3 survivors are working gens it amoubts to 45 seconds of generator time (15 x 3). Pop doesnt even delete that. And thats just 1 dead hard, imagine if there are 4 of them. And its not single use, so if you leave the dead harder they will get to use it again.
ON TOP OF ALL OF THAT the dead hard users think this makes them goid at the game. It doesnt.
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yeah, and without dead hard, you get the same result but 4 seconds earlier. u read the 3 dead hard scenarios I mentioned? where only one of them is really strong?
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I would love for them to instantly drop shack pallet but DH makes it so they don't need to. Even better when you outplay them and make them stuff up at the window but one press of a button and they make it to safety anyway.
The perk allows survivors to greed extra time out of already overpowered loops increasing the chance that you as a killer may make a mistake and reset the loop.
There is no point arguing though. The evidence is everywhere that this game is made for survivors because they shell out the most cash. The only times killers get qol updates is when their numbers drop too low as was admitted to by the devs in a livestream just before the Decisive strike nerf.
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Next time they will solve some high quality chemistry problems before using dead hard instead of pressing E.
Jokes aside, dead hard is easy to bait it really is, if they are using that on loop to reset it or being greedy one more time, this means you've been already outplayed and they used dead hard for bonus to get their extra reward for outplaying you, because you didn't do well and caught them on the loopies.
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Sure we can adress this perk, if camping and tunneling are also addressed. Survivors run perks like this because killer want to only tunnel and camp.
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While I am against Dead Hard (mostly because it's "Press E to freeze console killers in place for 2 seconds), I find it funny that Sprint Burst has been brought up so many times and people say just counter it with Mindbreaker, yet no one's saying just counter Dead Hard with Unrelenting.
With Tentacle Strike locking my game up when I pull it out, I have been playing an M1 Nemesis using Save the Best for Last and Unrelenting, and found Unrelenting to make short work of Dead Hard (and juking).
Plus, you can use Unrelenting for distance while dropping since the recovery is quick.
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I have a different build on each of my survivors. Of the 27 builds, only two of them use Dead Hard:
Basement Rescue Specialist with Borrowed, Deliverance, Dead Hard, and Decisive (specialized for basement rescues while mitigating the loss of hook-trading);
It's Not Deliverance, It's Digiorno with Up the Ante, Slippery Meat, Dead Hard, and Second Wind (tricks the killer into thinking I'm broken for 90s from Deliverance and then need to heal up after, when I'll actually be healthy in 30s; most convincing on Adam, and if the killer isn't paying attention to how many tries it takes to unhook myself)
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No camping or tunneling at red ranks: 3 hooks, barely. Survivors just want free escapes.
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if you remove all exhaustion perks you have to get rid of the lunge and reduce the killer speed slightly else there is no way a survivor can get away.
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I play this game without exhaustion perks all the time and do quite well, as do a ton of other people. NOED and exhaustion perks are 2 sides of the same coin. You trying to lump other stuff in there doesnt work
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You just basically summed up NOED
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How do you counter Sprint Burst for Distance?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
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sprint burst doesn't waste your time. you see it, and change targets. dead hard wastes the time of 2 chases.
also, this is very unrelated.
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And i am sick with use stridor with spirit to outplay.
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Its occasionaly gonna be used for distance, 8/10 times when someone uses DH its used for making the killer swing because they cant make to the pallet. And its also a perk to make the chase some seconds longer. Im not tryng to defend DH, its a broke perk but your arguments cant convince me.
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Correlation does not imply causation
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