Unpopular Opinion: NOED should not be nerfed/changed
Against most survivors, and even at the high level play team Oracle for example, everyone agrees that a killer MUST have some sort of game delay, or gen regression perk. Well, let's look at all of those perks that are classified as game delay/gen defense:
- Corrupt Intervention (Plague)
- Dead Man's Switch (Deathslinger) *also a bad perk
- Dying Light (Myers) *also a bad perk
- Eruption (Nemesis)
- Hex: Huntress Lullaby (Huntress) *also a bad perk
- Hex: Ruin (Hag)
- Oppression (Twins) *also a bad perk
- Overcharge (Doctor) *also a bad perk
- Pop Goes the Weasel (Clown)
- Surge (Demogorgon)
Now, if we only look at the good perks, you basically have:
- Corrupt Interention
- Eruption (Usually has to be paired with something else)
- Hex: Ruin
- Pop Goes the Weasel
- Surge
Do you see anything in common with all of these perks? They are all teachables. With the exception of Hex: Huntress Lullaby, which is an extremely terrible perk mind you. The rest of them require you to spend shards or money to access a killer. Then you must level that killer to 40, to get their teachables, then level the killer of your choice to get the perk you want.
There are no gen regression/defense/slowdown perks that exist as baseline perks. NOED is basically your only other option if you don't take some sort of gen defense.
Thus, if you want to nerf/change Hex: NOED, you first need to give a VIABLE gen defense perk as a baseline non-teachable to give people some sort of alternative.
Comments
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Noed isn't a slow down perk though.
It's the "At least i got one kill" type of perk.It's a trash perk.You get waay more value out of other perks.
P.S:I agree Demo is a pretty good Slowdown perk
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NOED should receive some changes IMO.
however, i think it is very important to point our that changes =/= nerf.
i want the Perk to be a very impactful one, but i also want it to feel more fair for both sides - i think its strength should be reliant on how many Dull Totems remain when the 5th gen pops.
the easiest way to do that would be to just make an addition to the perk stating that it lights up every remaining Dull Totem (= harder to get rid off if multiple totems remain), but i'd prefer them to completely rework it into something entirely different.
one of my favourite ideas is to essentially make it a Tombstone Perk that would require & consume Dull totems (after activation NOED totems ofc) to work.
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NOED is slowdown perk if survivors find it threatening enough to waste some time destroying bones. However, in a Sweat With Friends scenario, either they will have all bones destroyed due to communication or will let you have the 1K.
Either situation, you're going to depip.
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"There are no gen regression/defense/slowdown perks that exist as baseline perks. NOED is basically your only other option if you don't take some sort of gen defense."
The main option on defending gens is your own skills playing the game, not perks. NOED is a perk that rewards killers that are being trashed by survivors, in a normal MMR game on where you get trashed by your opponent, you de-rank, period, you don't get a magical "life savior" to make a comeback out of nowhere, like this Hex.
This Hex should work like other perks in a way that rewards skills, the most basic way should be that the totem only lights up when certain conditions or objectives are met by the killer, example:
-Hook x amount of survivors.
-Successfully hit survivors x amount of times.
-Chase survivors x amount seconds.
The list on how devs could make this perk better goes on and on. Right now the perk is only good for making new killers get less frustrated with their first matches and that's it. If you get survivors that do bones, the Hex will be off in seconds after the match starts, so you'll get way more value out of other vanilla perks that come with the game by default.
But honestly this is a well known topic, that is constantly popping in this forum, meanwhile most killer/survivors mains that don't complain about this kind of stuff, only hope that the new upcoming MMR system fix the inconsistency on skills.
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Imo it should be changed to be consistently dependable. It's a high risk low pay off reward perk.
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I think noed is fine as is as long as exhaustion perks exist. If you want to remove one, remove the other.
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How does sprint burst or dead hard reward skill exactly?
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As the others have said, NOED secures kills but rarely slows the game down. Survivors, especially solos, are more likely to abandon their teammates unless you can snowball. I only think it should be reworked so it can be more versatile because, without Blood Warden, it's pretty mundane and braindead. I respect your opinion though. It's really not that big of a deal if I die to NOED.
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I wrote and quote:
"This Hex should work like other perks in a way that rewards skills"
I've never said that all the perks in the game reward skills, there's plenty of killer/survivors perks that are straight up base improvements, so I don't get the purpose of the question.
But about those two perks. They don't, and that's the whole point, is an ability style perk, to make survivors last longer. And being this a Hunter/Prey game on where the prey needs to have alternatives, is more than necessary. In this case Dead hard and Sprint burst exist to give a chance to survivors. Other wise bloodlust will end all persecutions eventually, especially on certain maps on where loops suck.
Now, just trying to interpret here, so tell me if I'm wrong, but with the question that you just made, it almost seems like self pityness because you are having a hard time with people calling you out for using NOED, just don't fall for that.
It's a perk, if it is in the game, then, use it, play the way you want. With the salt aside, at the end of the day, nobody cares about it, the perk will keep being the way it is.
In my last 40 survivors matches in red ranks, I haven't encountered a single NOED, and as killer main, the answers is more than obvious, it doesn't worth it. If you get trashed and yo do a comeback at the end because of NOED, even killing everyone, will most of the time not give you a pip in rank 2-1. So the perk is bad, and if someone does a magical comeback with it after getting trashed, then survivors are as bad as the killer using it for not cleaning bones. Just a bad mechanic overall, nothing more nothing less, most people want to change it to make it fun for both parties, because is just one of "those" perks, not because it's unfair.
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NOED is an absolutely terrible perk that only helps you win if survivors try to cleanse all 5 totems. Otherwise, it's just a free kill that helps you feel better about your loss.
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It won’t be an unpopular opinion on here. In the reaL world, yes. Noed rewards killers who didn’t play well all game, and in a big way. I see why killers on green to brown might need it but there’s no excuse at high ranks.
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I never said it was a slowdown perk. It is a punishment on survivors for not doing totems. So if they don't do totems (slow the game down) then you get to activate it and punish them.
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NOED is actually surprisingly good in the right hands. It's gotten its rep as "trash killer" perk because its mostly used by bad players (whether just new or simply just suck) to get the kill they cant otherwise. However, on someone who's actually planning around it, NOED becomes very, very deadly. Demo + NOED + Infectious + Distressing + STBFL = Wiping survivors in 15 seconds in the endgame.
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TL;DR but I agree that NOED should not be changed/nerfed.
I don't use it as killer lately and I don't face it as survivor lately neither but I like the way NOED is. It seems to me a both sides fair perk.
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I agree
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It should stay the same, it can be turned off...
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lol, i just realized i listed "Demogorgon" as a good perk instead of surge.
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Good killers don't need NOED.
The issue with NOED is that it's a genuinely unfair perk. It's not broken, it's just braindead. Doing bones is a waste of time when I could be holding M1 on gens instead. Plus, they might not even have it.
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As a solo survivor main, i think noed is fine. It doing anything depends on the survivors doing nothing (except gens, and the occasional unhook).
Also, i think it is an option for an endgame perk. Noed with blood warden, remember me and others should be a thing. I mean, the killer played most of the game without perks in that scenario, on the chance to be op in the end and crush all hopes. Why not?
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I used to think noed was no big deal, but today I had a match, solo queue, where I ran the killer the whole time and the rest of the team was super gen efficient. I got 2 hooked in the process, and one other survivor got 1 hooked. Long story short, noed hits. This guy got a 3k out of it, because I won't leave a teammate behind on the hook and neither would another of the random. That is bs to completely lose and get a 3k
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funny how you just assume that that is a unpopulair opinion.
I take it you base that on seeing many threads start about it needing a nerf and we ignore the many people replying its fine?
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That's the point they might have it but you can normally tell by the skill of the killer if they have noed or not.
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I've had plenty of games where I've done all 5 totems, people moan about noed, they know how to stop it but just ignore totems. I say if survivors aren't trying to stop noed then leave it as is
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You have to be efficient and manage your exhaustion to get good value out of sprint burst, and you gotta time your dead hard.
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The threat of NOED is similar to the threat of survivors having things like DS and BT. You don't know until you do. Killers basically have to assume a survivor who gets rescued has BT, or that someone recently unhooked has DS, because you don't know for sure.
Why can't survivors just always assume noed and do bones?
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I mean, yeah. NOED is a powerful perk (when it works), but with the new small game and the new jill perk totems are gonna be gone fast, especially in SWF.
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NOED is not even that great of a perk I see no reason to change it.
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So the skill comes in after and how you use the exhaustion perk.
Noed the skill is being able to know where people are and get the first hit quickly. Its not like its an auto 4k
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The purpose of the question was to highlight that noed is comparable to exhaustion perks directly, and that those perks dont require you to jump through hoops in order to use them. They are the same thing. Exhaustion perks increase the length of chases, noed decreases the length of chases but only during end game.
I agree its not a particularly good perk, i just dont see any problem with it as long as exhaustion perks exist. Id be fine deleting both, but its unfair to delete/change 1 and not the other
No, i rarely use noed and when i do its part of an endgame build, ive played long enough to know better than to listen to survivor complaints.
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Its not a loss if the killer gets a 3k. Your goal as survivor is to escape, not complete the gens
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Never occurred to me to use infectios and distressing with it before, ill have to try that. Thanks
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It is though, it’s a guaranteed kill for the killer, they just have to get a hit
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Theres a lot of things that can happen where the killer doesnt get a kill. All bones could have been broken befire end game, noed could be broken during end game before the killer gets a hit, the killer could hook someone, noed gets broken, survivors get the save and leave, the killer only gets 1 kill (still a loss). At no point does having noed guarantee a victory, its not like all the survivors get nuked once the last gen pops 😂
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It isn't though.
The killer is probably going to camp the hook, if they do, go look for the totem. Yeah sometimes the totem spawns on top of the killer there and you are out of luck, better luck next time.
If the killer doesn't camp the hook, go for the rescue.
You could also just do bones during the match. This game is balanced around the idea that survivors do secondary objectives, search chests, cleanse totems. This is evidenced by the fact that it takes 80 seconds to a gen, and if a survivor just holds w (no pallets, no looping), it will take a killer 48 seconds to down them. Factor in picking them up and finding a hook and the other 3 survivors just finished 3 gens in your first chase. The game is not balanced around slamming gens as fast and hard as possible.
Killers already assume survivors have many perks. We assume someone has DS and don't pick up the guy that just got unhooked, we assume someone has BT so we don't hit the unhooked guy. Why is it so hard for survivors to just assume NOED and do bones?
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NOED is fine. It forces survivors to do bones or be punished. It should be buffed IMO
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But sometimes it feels really disgusting and unfair compared to Devour Hope to be honest.
Least change I hope is exposed icon to be lit (if killer has NOED) when all generators are done.
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Noed is actually fine.
It punishes M1 survivors which in my experience are the majority. They don't want to adapt to circumstances (working on bones), they just want devs to fix their lazyness so they can keep pressing M1.
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