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Upcoming Legion Changes Discussion

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  • Condorloco_26
    Condorloco_26 Member Posts: 1,714

    @megdonalds said:
    I never play NC with doc and i never needed it. His tracking abilities are good enough, he never needed that minor change 1 year ago anyways. Stop being hypocritical about things that are pretty much irrelevant.

    I agree on not needing NC on Doc to find survivors. But how about Coulrophobia? I equip the perk honestly not even knowing if it affects the "snap out of it" action, but hoping it does LOL. In any case, now I know for sure it won't.

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @Wolf74 said:

    @Master said:
    SO the insane buff to BT stays, additionally they nerf doc.

    Im very dissapointed

    I had the very same thought.
    -We get a new still weak killer.
    -An old meta perk gets rebuffed.
    -A mediocre killer gets a nerf.
    Pretty good job so far. :sarcastic:

    After just 2 patches that slightly favored killer, the Devs go back to their regular survivor catering.

    As sad as it is, Ive already accepted that BHVR creates killers that I simply ignore.

    The other poitns though.... welp
    I might have some protest games as doc (ya know, survivors call that toxic doc)

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @megdonalds said:
    I never play NC with doc and i never needed it. His tracking abilities are good enough, he never needed that minor change 1 year ago anyways. Stop being hypocritical about things that are pretty much irrelevant.

    Doc has been weak before, there was litreally no reason to nerf him even further

  • Chuckyyo
    Chuckyyo Member Posts: 65

    @megdonalds said:
    I never play NC with doc and i never needed it. His tracking abilities are good enough, he never needed that minor change 1 year ago anyways. Stop being hypocritical about things that are pretty much irrelevant.

    It's more about the message this change sends. I also don't use Nurses on either Doc or Freddy, but there are some people that do. And it wasn't on anyones mind as a huge imbalance in that combination. People complained that Deep Wound isn't considered a healing action in that sense, and brought up Snap Out of It as an example. But instead of making Deep Wound better, they make everything else worse.

    Perfectly fine to leave Deep Wound as it is for now and to nerf things that need nerfing. But these changes were totally unnecessary. It's the polar opposite of what people were asking for with their feedback. That leaves a bitter taste.

  • megdonalds
    megdonalds Member Posts: 742

    @Master said:

    @megdonalds said:
    I never play NC with doc and i never needed it. His tracking abilities are good enough, he never needed that minor change 1 year ago anyways. Stop being hypocritical about things that are pretty much irrelevant.

    Doc has been weak before, there was litreally no reason to nerf him even further

    Wrong. Doc was only weak before his Cube. And if you mean "weak" regarding high ranks, then every killer is weak against tryhard survivors and SWF, except nurse imo.

  • Incarnate
    Incarnate Member Posts: 677

    @Claudette_Baguette - My thoughts on this... The devs are not very competent at balancing the game, and they show inability to understand what the community wants, especially when considering that they're doing the exact opposite of what the majority of the community members who've spend a great deal of time, energy and effort on the PTB, both testing it, providing feedback and suggestions on how to fix it. And what do they do? The exact opposite, and not only that they make unwarranted changes that hurt the balance for other killers.

    I don't think they care about balance, they care about making $$$$. They do not care about the community, they care about making $$$$. If they truly cared about the game and the community, they'd be doing more what the community wants than what they want.

  • G0odNess
    G0odNess Member Posts: 45
    edited December 2018

    snap out of it and wake up nerfed so that it seems that mend is ok, same as the locker buff to make it look like iron maiden has some use... All that without adressing:

    • that survivors will not heal because thats just a waste of time against legion
    • that mending stalls the game for an awesome 15 seconds
    • that legion still needs five ######### stabs to down someone
    • that a lot of perks dont work on legion (exposed/healing ones)
      PReTtY g00d Job SO FaR
      Don't know you but i was super excited for this new chapter, was gonna buy both killer skins and black metal jesus since i spend all my hoarded shards on matsuri, now... i'm not sure i'm going to bother :/
  • Bravo0413
    Bravo0413 Member Posts: 3,647
    itsDorkMagic said:

    Casual reminder that not buying the DLC is the most effective way to let the devs know how you feel about this weak killer. These changes are not enough, guys, try again.




    This /\..... the community should not settle for this mediocrity..... changes?... I don't see him functioning any better with a decent amount of perks? I don't see anything resolving DWE.... we know where this is heading, we've had problems with BT before

  • EldritchElise87
    EldritchElise87 Member Posts: 626

    I'm going to play Legion for a bit, get Discordance. But unless there is some real changes coming soon itll be someone I only run for meme builds and for trying to have fun. Its such a shame, I still have hope, especially with how they balanced Spirit post-release, I only hope they would rather introduce small tweaks gradually, and this is just the start.

    it totally makes sense to release killers weak and then buff rather than release them OP and then need to nerf, generally both sides hate nerfs, so I can understand the logic.

  • THEPH0NECOMPANY
    THEPH0NECOMPANY Member Posts: 2

    These changes are good to make Legion less annoying to play.

    However, Legion will still be really bad at actually killing people, worse than Freddy actually... at least he is decent with 2x blocks or class photo. All Legion will do is slow the game down, and that is very boring for both sides.

    Legion has a tricky power to balance and any changes should be well thought out as playing against them could end up being very un-fun. I recommend to the Legion development team that you involve McLean and ask for his advice on what to do with Legion, I trust that he will have a good way of balancing Legion.

    Personally, I will not be buying anything with the new chapter if it is released as is.

  • Wolf74
    Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959

    @Incarnate said:
    @Claudette_Baguette - My thoughts on this... The devs are not very competent at balancing the game, and they show inability to understand what the community wants, especially when considering that they're doing the exact opposite of what the majority of the community members who've spend a great deal of time, energy and effort on the PTB, both testing it, providing feedback and suggestions on how to fix it. And what do they do? The exact opposite, and not only that they make unwarranted changes that hurt the balance for other killers.

    I don't think they care about balance, they care about making $$$$. They do not care about the community, they care about making $$$$. If they truly cared about the game and the community, they'd be doing more what the community wants than what they want.

    Actually you are wrong… they exactly do what the "community" wants.
    But just the SURVIVOR side of the community.
    Survivor want "fun" killer, that do not act as threats to them and THEY get what they want.

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @megdonalds said:

    @Master said:

    @megdonalds said:
    I never play NC with doc and i never needed it. His tracking abilities are good enough, he never needed that minor change 1 year ago anyways. Stop being hypocritical about things that are pretty much irrelevant.

    Doc has been weak before, there was litreally no reason to nerf him even further

    Wrong. Doc was only weak before his Cube. And if you mean "weak" regarding high ranks, then every killer is weak against tryhard survivors and SWF, except nurse imo.

    Yeah I was talking about competent survivors of course because against potato random survivors at rank 20, every killer is op :wink:

  • Condorloco_26
    Condorloco_26 Member Posts: 1,714

    @Hail_to_the_King said:
    Wake Up, Mending, and Snap Out of It should be considered healing actions. 

    Ship has sailed.

  • Incarnate
    Incarnate Member Posts: 677

    @Wolf74 said:

    @Incarnate said:
    @Claudette_Baguette - My thoughts on this... The devs are not very competent at balancing the game, and they show inability to understand what the community wants, especially when considering that they're doing the exact opposite of what the majority of the community members who've spend a great deal of time, energy and effort on the PTB, both testing it, providing feedback and suggestions on how to fix it. And what do they do? The exact opposite, and not only that they make unwarranted changes that hurt the balance for other killers.

    I don't think they care about balance, they care about making $$$$. They do not care about the community, they care about making $$$$. If they truly cared about the game and the community, they'd be doing more what the community wants than what they want.

    Actually you are wrong… they exactly do what the "community" wants.
    But just the SURVIVOR side of the community.
    Survivor want "fun" killer, that do not act as threats to them and THEY get what they want.

    Well... I've participated in the PTBs and they clearly don't listen nor do the seem to care.
    ...and there is just one thing here that I think is rather important. Without a killer, there is no game, and who's going to play a killer who's NOT fun to play because of struggling down survivors, even survivors with No Mither.

    Futhermore, if they only listen one side, it will be very onesided, and guess what that will do? Kill the game in the long run. Why? This is competitive game, and if it strongly favors one side, guess what will happen? More people will play on the more favorable side. Why? Because a lot of people find winning to be fun.

    So if what you say is true, that they're favoring the survivors/victims more, then we have a very serious issue.
    Because thats like making rules in a sport thats favors one side. Even being a 4 vs 1 assymetrical competitive game, it still needs to be as balanced and fair as possible for BOTH sides - where making rules that favors one side would already make it UNFAIR and UNBALANCED for one side. See a problem? If they don't see a problem with that, then they have no business making a competitive game such as this.

  • Wolf74
    Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959

    @Incarnate said:

    @Wolf74 said:

    @Incarnate said:
    @Claudette_Baguette - My thoughts on this... The devs are not very competent at balancing the game, and they show inability to understand what the community wants, especially when considering that they're doing the exact opposite of what the majority of the community members who've spend a great deal of time, energy and effort on the PTB, both testing it, providing feedback and suggestions on how to fix it. And what do they do? The exact opposite, and not only that they make unwarranted changes that hurt the balance for other killers.

    I don't think they care about balance, they care about making $$$$. They do not care about the community, they care about making $$$$. If they truly cared about the game and the community, they'd be doing more what the community wants than what they want.

    Actually you are wrong… they exactly do what the "community" wants.
    But just the SURVIVOR side of the community.
    Survivor want "fun" killer, that do not act as threats to them and THEY get what they want.

    Well... I've participated in the PTBs and they clearly don't listen nor do the seem to care.
    ...and there is just one thing here that I think is rather important. Without a killer, there is no game, and who's going to play a killer who's NOT fun to play because of struggling down survivors, even survivors with No Mither.

    Futhermore, if they only listen one side, it will be very onesided, and guess what that will do? Kill the game in the long run. Why? This is competitive game, and if it strongly favors one side, guess what will happen? More people will play on the more favorable side. Why? Because a lot of people find winning to be fun.

    So if what you say is true, that they're favoring the survivors/victims more, then we have a very serious issue.
    Because thats like making rules in a sport thats favors one side. Even being a 4 vs 1 assymetrical competitive game, it still needs to be as balanced and fair as possible for BOTH sides - where making rules that favors one side would already make it UNFAIR and UNBALANCED for one side. See a problem? If they don't see a problem with that, then they have no business making a competitive game such as this.

    I am totally on your side on this.

  • Mister_Holdout
    Mister_Holdout Member Posts: 3,144

    Yep, I'm not impressed with these changes either. Oh well, it is what it is.

    This is the first time I'll be spending all my bp on the survivor first. I may not even touch the new killer for a while.

  • Raccoon
    Raccoon Member Posts: 7,693

    @ScottJund said:

    @The_Crusader said:

    @Raccoon said:

    @The_Crusader said:

    @Raccoon said:
    "While not in a chase, the Deep Wound timer will tick down – even while using the Mend action. As long as The Survivor continues to mend, the timer will not progress past 99% and will not go into the dying state."

    They almost made a viable change, but then they remembered that the game can be pretty spooky without someone holding your hand :3

    That is ridiculous. If mend ticked down fully while mending you'd be buggered. You'd have what, 20 seconds in which to get away from the killer and fully heal? and it takes 15 seconds to mend. So you'd have 5 seconds in which to run away and find a place to mend fully.

    Sounds like a well-thought out mechanic all around, sir/madam!

    (By that, I mean the general concept of Deep Wounds)

    Have an awesome :)

    I'm not going to disagree with that.

    A killer who can sprint at 120% speed and vault pallets.....yeah that's going to be an easy one to balance.

    See I still don't get that. Who cares that he can vault pallets? All he can do is just hit you and drain all his power while you lose a small chunk of a timer that doesn't even go down while he's chasing you. Its not like you can vault the pallet, cancel the power, and still hit the person - they're long gone on the other side at that point.

    Other side of the map...or pallet?

    JK, either works <3

  • ReneAensland
    ReneAensland Member Posts: 838

    lol still at 110% speed?

    ### off.
  • Alther_Primus
    Alther_Primus Member Posts: 158

    With the nerf to the Doc, the lack of a Freddy change, and the pathetic showing for Legion's changes, I think that solidifies everything: If I'm still playing next patch, I'm going to be either a Survivor, or I will Insidious camp with Bubba as a protest.

  • ReneAensland
    ReneAensland Member Posts: 838

    @Alther_Primus said:
    With the nerf to the Doc, the lack of a Freddy change, and the pathetic showing for Legion's changes, I think that solidifies everything: If I'm still playing next patch, I'm going to be either a Survivor, or I will Insidious camp with Bubba as a protest.

    Damn lol

  • Keene_Kills
    Keene_Kills Member Posts: 649

    @Alther_Primus said:
    With the nerf to the Doc, the lack of a Freddy change, and the pathetic showing for Legion's changes, I think that solidifies everything: If I'm still playing next patch, I'm going to be either a Survivor, or I will Insidious camp with Bubba as a protest.

    Agreed. Started back to mostly playing survivor side after a couple of days in the PTB, as anyone could see what a hot mess it was bringing to the game. If those "fixes" announced today are the state of what's going live, yeah, I'll stick to playing survivor when I do play. Not even a Santa Clown outfit could lull me over into the dumpster juice the devs are fully intent on pouring on the killer side with this joke of a chapter and its "balance." And when that gets boring from EZ mode, and the next patch continues to show they've created a killer and a new status that are both too delicate to ever fix or balance, I'll just play other games and float off like a fart in the wind. No sweat. And it would seem there are plenty who feel the same at this point. They can't say we didn't try to warn them with feedback in the PTB section and the survey, though.

  • Oblitiry
    Oblitiry Member Posts: 487
    They'll buff him more just like they buffed the spirit 3 times in a row. Things are easier to adjust once more people have their hands on the killer. 

    The more data they gather the better. And expecting them to just buff the ever living ######### out of him at his release is completely asinine. 

    They may even revert some changes that are too survivor sided. Patience and constructive level headed thinking is apparently non existent these days.
  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    ScottJund said:

    @The_Crusader said:

    @Raccoon said:

    @The_Crusader said:

    @Raccoon said:
    "While not in a chase, the Deep Wound timer will tick down – even while using the Mend action. As long as The Survivor continues to mend, the timer will not progress past 99% and will not go into the dying state."

    They almost made a viable change, but then they remembered that the game can be pretty spooky without someone holding your hand :3

    That is ridiculous. If mend ticked down fully while mending you'd be buggered. You'd have what, 20 seconds in which to get away from the killer and fully heal? and it takes 15 seconds to mend. So you'd have 5 seconds in which to run away and find a place to mend fully.

    Sounds like a well-thought out mechanic all around, sir/madam!

    (By that, I mean the general concept of Deep Wounds)

    Have an awesome :)

    I'm not going to disagree with that.

    A killer who can sprint at 120% speed and vault pallets.....yeah that's going to be an easy one to balance.

    See I still don't get that. Who cares that he can vault pallets? All he can do is just hit you and drain all his power while you lose a small chunk of a timer that doesn't even go down while he's chasing you. Its not like you can vault the pallet, cancel the power, and still hit the person - they're long gone on the other side at that point.

    That's the point. You introduce a character who can sprint and vault pallets and suddenly you have to put a cap on how much harm they can actually do which renders it useless. He'd be too strong if he could actually hit them properly so instead we get this.

    You'd think at that point the idea would have been scrapped. Instead they tried to make it fit and here we are...
  • HatCreature
    HatCreature Member Posts: 3,298

    The whole point of this Killer isn't to down people it is to waste their time with Mending therefore they don't do Gens. But of course, they didn't do a great job at fixing that because Deep Wounds will still be underpowered because it only takes like 10 seconds and BAM, yeah the timer goes down during that time but SO WHAT, it won't go down below 99%. The fix is an illusion of a fix, it sounds good but ultimately defeats itself, like ha ha you thought you were dying but it was a joke. Making Mend take longer or being affected by Sloppy Butcher would help, taking out the 99% safety measure would also help.

    Of course, none of that really matters when he can't catch up to people because he's slow and he still needs his power to do that but can't down people with his power so even if they fix his power to effectively distract people, he still can't catch up.

    I propose, what if when you go into Frenzy you have the option of pushing a secondary attack button that DOES NOT afflict Deep Wounds but a normal hit? Whether that person has Deep Wounds or not does not matter because you automatically lose your power like normal and get stunned because it counts as a normal hit. This way we can use our power to catch up and hit people OR inflict Deep Wounds when we see a group of people.

  • ScottJund
    ScottJund Member Posts: 1,115

    @HatCreature said:
    The whole point of this Killer isn't to down people

    That's the point of every killer in the game.

  • LordGlint
    LordGlint Member Posts: 8,314
    edited December 2018
    While getting rid of the double stun is HUGE IMO, I think the real irony is that they managed to (admitted super minor) Nerf Freddy again, lol.
  • BeanieEnthusiast
    BeanieEnthusiast Member Posts: 213
    Just make his ######### movement speed 115 and there, done! 
  • HatCreature
    HatCreature Member Posts: 3,298

    @ScottJund said:

    @HatCreature said:
    The whole point of this Killer isn't to down people

    That's the point of every killer in the game.

    The point of this killer in particular is to hit multiple people and distract them with an inconvenience, kind of like Pig and her traps is an inconvenience.

  • JoyfulLeader
    JoyfulLeader Member Posts: 571

    @BeanieEnthusiast said:
    Just make his [BAD WORD] movement speed 115 and there, done! 

    IKR, I don't get why not

  • LordGlint
    LordGlint Member Posts: 8,314
    HatCreature said:

    The whole point of this Killer isn't to down people it is to waste their time with Mending therefore they don't do Gens. But of course, they didn't do a great job at fixing that because Deep Wounds will still be underpowered because it only takes like 10 seconds and BAM, yeah the timer goes down during that time but SO WHAT, it won't go down below 99%. The fix is an illusion of a fix, it sounds good but ultimately defeats itself, like ha ha you thought you were dying but it was a joke. Making Mend take longer or being affected by Sloppy Butcher would help, taking out the 99% safety measure would also help.

    Of course, none of that really matters when he can't catch up to people because he's slow and he still needs his power to do that but can't down people with his power so even if they fix his power to effectively distract people, he still can't catch up.

    I propose, what if when you go into Frenzy you have the option of pushing a secondary attack button that DOES NOT afflict Deep Wounds but a normal hit? Whether that person has Deep Wounds or not does not matter because you automatically lose your power like normal and get stunned because it counts as a normal hit. This way we can use our power to catch up and hit people OR inflict Deep Wounds when we see a group of people.

    What would be the counter play to this as a survivor?
  • Volfawott
    Volfawott Member Posts: 3,893
    I was actually surprised reading these changes I assumed the double stun and the no noise for mending were bugs that were meant to be fixed anyway not notable changes. ( sorry Devs you're not getting any points for those two)

    I'll give them props for addressing the oversight with the vaults as I could see where they coming from but it was abused so I'm glad they changed it.

    Increasing the lunge range is something I thought you were going to do standard for all 110% Killers. (So again no points)

    Like the two first mending changes are great the last one suck and did nothing to help


  • Wolf74
    Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959
    edited December 2018

    @Claudette_Baguette said:
    THE LEGION CHANGES:

    • Reduced The Legion Feral Frenzy Vault distance

    To give The Legion a sense of speed when they vault, we had increased the distance coming out of the vault. Unfortunately, this meant that Survivors had a larger window to juke The Legion by going back through the same vault location. We have reduced the distance to tighten the gap and allow The Legion an opportunity to counter this.

    • Removed the double stun effect when hitting Survivors affected by Deep Wound.

    After hitting a Survivor affected by Deep Wound, The Legion will no longer play the weapon swipe animation. Instead, the attack will transition directly into the ‘fatigue’ state, before ending the power.

    • Legion lunge distance increased

    The Legion’s lunge was slightly too short compared to other Killers. It has been adjusted to match the standard speed curve off the base attack giving it a longer range.

    DEEP WOUND STATUS CHANGES:

    • Added a mending sound to Mend action

    The sound for mending was missing during the PTB. Now you will hear a Survivor mending nearby.

    • Added a progress reset to the Mend action

    If a Survivor has made progress towards mending their Deep Wound status and is hit again by a Feral Frenzy attack, the progression will reset.

    • The Deep Wound bleedout timer continues to progress during the Mend action

    While not in a chase, the Deep Wound timer will tick down – even while using the Mend action. As long as The Survivor continues to mend, the timer will not progress past 99% and will not go into the dying state.

    • Specific actions that are not considered ‘Healing’ actions, will no longer be affected by perks that refer to healing.

    Mend, Snap out of it, and Wake up, are no longer considered healing actions, and as such, will not be affected by perks that refer to healing.

    NOTE These changes will not be updated on the Player Test Build. They will, however, be available in the upcoming chapter release, Darkness Among Us. Let us know what you think!

    What do you think about those changes? Source: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/33730/the-legion-changes#latest

    The first 4 changes are basically FIXES.

    The next are just minor or better said neglectable changes.

    And the last is just hilarious, because it is just a nerf to a killer perk, that affects a mid tier killer (Doc) and 2 low tier killer (Freddy and Legion himself).
    So along the "fixes" to make Legion better, they just push in a nerf to killer that don't deserve one., but keep the big buff to a survivor perk making it completely "unfun" for the killer.

    But we already know, "fun" is only important for survivor.
    Killer should start learning to have fun playing some tag with the important player and enjoy their role as an entertainer.

  • se05239
    se05239 Member Posts: 3,919

    @Wolf74 said:

    @Incarnate said:
    @Claudette_Baguette - My thoughts on this... The devs are not very competent at balancing the game, and they show inability to understand what the community wants, especially when considering that they're doing the exact opposite of what the majority of the community members who've spend a great deal of time, energy and effort on the PTB, both testing it, providing feedback and suggestions on how to fix it. And what do they do? The exact opposite, and not only that they make unwarranted changes that hurt the balance for other killers.

    I don't think they care about balance, they care about making $$$$. They do not care about the community, they care about making $$$$. If they truly cared about the game and the community, they'd be doing more what the community wants than what they want.

    Actually you are wrong… they exactly do what the "community" wants.
    But just the SURVIVOR side of the community.
    Survivor want "fun" killer, that do not act as threats to them and THEY get what they want.

    Survivor fun have always been the priority. That's why we'll never get another Hillbilly or Nurse.
    Legion just shows that they rather just make some company for Freddy down there in F tier, as its more fun for survivors to have an easy time.

  • RSB
    RSB Member Posts: 2,258

    .>Intentionally release a weak, bugged killer in PTB
    .>"We want your opinion, it is PTB :====DDD"
    .>"Well, he is weak as hell, we propose X,Y and Z change"
    .>"Yeah, yeah, sure ;====DDD"
    .>End the PTB, and fix bugs you intentionally gave the killer, do not buff him
    .>Killer is still weak, but not bugged at least
    .>"See? We listen to our community, these are our well-thought and balanced changes ;====DDD"
    .> Survivors rejoice, they know what's going on, despite no one is talking openly about it, now they can cry about "killahz OP being buffed agun"
    .>Not biased players - "Well... That's better than nothing, I guess..."
    .> Devs - "Now go to the shop and buy ;===DDDDD"

    This worked for Clown and Spirit, but with Legion... Not anymore. You did the same scheme with said 2 killers, and now you try to do the same thing with Legion.

  • Wolf74
    Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959

    Maybe I buy him with shards… because, what else to do with them? :P

  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976
    It will greatly depend how loud mending actually is
    If it's loud enough Legion could be pretty strong as 9 times out of 10 you're dead the second you stop mending
  • Mercurial
    Mercurial Member Posts: 11

    Weakening the already weak Freddy and Doctor by making Wake Up and Snap Out Of It not healing actions and thus not visible to Nurse's calling. Kinda not what I had in mind when I suggested them to make Mending a full healing action with all healing action perks to it.

  • Volfawott
    Volfawott Member Posts: 3,893
    Claudette_Baguette said:

    @alivebydeadight said:
    2 things one, atleast they tried to buff legion and 2 @Claudette_Baguette just for you

    I laughed too much at this! :D

    You got a Dev to laugh her arse off just from reading your name lol I think you're safe.