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How would you change keys
If keys are changed to no longer be usable for hatches, how would you change them so they are still as significant to the game as toolboxes, flashlights and medkits.
I thought an interesting idea would be to allow keys to give the survivor the ability to teleport from one locker to another, similar to Freddy's gen teleporting. Green Key gives you 1 charge, Purple gives you 2 charges and Red gives you 3 charges.
I think it would give some interesting opportunities for survivors and allow keys to be as significant as toolboxes, medkits and flashlights.
Comments
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I'd keep the ability to unlock the hatch, but it would be UNLOCKING the hatch, not in instant escape. Give the hatch an unlocking charge that takes time to complete, based on the number of gens that are remaining, plus a base.
So if it appears at 3 gens, it would take say, 32 seconds to unlock. 2 gens, 22s, 1 gen, 12s, and then when all gens are repaired, it's the minimum 2s unlock time. And like totems it would reset if you let go.
I really don't mind hatch escapes when all the gens are completed or it's the last remaining survivor. It's those 2-3 gen escapes with 2-3 survivors getting out at once that is the bane on any killers life, as you're too preoccupied with defending gens to have time to scout out and defend the hatch too.
Or... just flat out stop the hatch spawning when gens are still there to be repaired.
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i got a key rework idea that doesnt involve hatch
the idea is the key can call upon the entity too open breakable walls for insert amount of time and every time will take insert amount of charges, depending on the rarity and add ons it can increase the time that the breakable wall is open
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Disable them completely until the Devs figure out what they want to do to them.
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Too complicated, just make hatch appear after 5 gens are done (and when only 1 surivor remains) = FIXED perfectly.
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Make them use 5 charges to open hatch, full purple key, 5 seconds to open it. Only the person with the key can escape, no matter red or purple as red has more charges to it. Once the person has escaped the hatch closes but does not start end game collapse. The hatch can reopen as normal with last survivor.
Also you can't find them in chests anymore, if they keep this then the killer should be able to stumble upon a mori.
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Keys should be able to knock down boarded up doors.
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Removing the key or nerfing the key so it's pretty much removed, invalidates 1/4 of the survivor blood-web. The key should be repurposed so it has an effect on the match similar to flashlights, Toolboxes and Medkits.
Also if the key has anything to do with hatches, the killer players are going to belly-ache so hard that they might rupture a spleen.
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No, the keys should be as useful as mories are since that's their equivalent, not other items. No reasonable killer would care if keys opened hatch once all gens are finished since that only bypasses 20s of exit gate opeaning which is already undefendable.
And keys would still be good if you team has lost, you're last alive and killer closed hatch. You'd still get 1 free escape at a point where it's reasonable.
They would still have a lot of uses with change like this (arguable more then other items even) but wouldn't be bypassing main objective in unhealthy way anymore.
And the best part, all devs have to do is change single number of gens from whatever it is now to 5 on the hatch spawn condition (like they did to mories, iri heads etc).
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I like the locker idea. I think the aura reading it has is good, but honestly I'd like to see a talisman or something else to take that style of item use and even expand upon it.
I think keys could be used to lock or unlock things quickly. They could be used to halt repair progress for a little bit, or to instantly unlock a chest, or even to lock some lockers for a limited time! Imagine running around locking some lockers, and Huntress or Trickster come to reload, and they can't access the locker. Or maybe your buddy(or perhaps just yourself) jumps into a locker and the Killer knows they are there, you lock the locker and they can't access it for 30 seconds or something. The player inside cannot move out but they have a safe 30 seconds to prepare.
That's the whole point of this thread though, innit?
"How Would You Change Keys"
Kind of self explanatory there. You're too stuck in the mindset of "keys MUST = hatch" that you can't comprehend them being used as something else. Think outside the box or stop investing time you clearly don't care about into this discussion.
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1st off, Moris offer the killer the ability to use the kill animation. So Mories have another use besides directly affecting the game. They also allow killers to not need to last hook a survivor. Worried about DS, Mori. Worried you can't make it to a hook from the exit gate, Mori.
2nd Keys are not the survivor equivalent of killer Moris. So we can throw that argument out the window. Killers and survivors don't have anything that is equivalent.
3rd If Keys no longer open hatches or are so useless that no survivor in their right mind would use them, then survivors would need a buff of some sort to get the 2 kill/2 survive ratios balanced out.
Reworking keys so that they are still meaningful in the match is the best option.
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Make it so opening the hatch takes charges and has an unlocking animation that takes like 10 seconds or something. (I just found out today that you could have no charges on a key and you can still use it to escape through the hatch, if an item has no charges it should be useless no matter what said item is)
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Every time I see people say the key should take a certain amount of time to unlock the hatch I just facepalm laugh at how bad of a suggestion that is. Do people not realize that killers find the hatch first before survivors do way more often? Do they not realize that all they'd have to do is proxy camp it while keeping an eye on the doors? I swear I honestly believe there are people that play this game that literally think survivors should never escape or have the absolute most difficult way in doing so.
Keys should not be nerfed. Keys are conditional. If you let survivors meet those conditions thats your fault and they deserve to use it.
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Delete them so I can stop hearing people whine about them.
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keys are getting reworked, hopefully destroyed cause they alter the match like old moris did.
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Thats one way to get people who play keys sabotaged and bullied in matches. No one would trust anyone with the key if this happened. I swear survivors escaping the trial is like the most offensive thing to people who play killer it feels like.
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Remove them. Instead think of the game without them and ask "should keys be introduced?" I'd say no.
If you need to keep em.. remove the hatch opening function and replace them with with Cursed Lamps, Voodoo Dolls, or Emblems of the Entity or some kind of magical trinket that makes sense in-universe. The aura reading with a very limited charge is an interesting concept, one that only works are stupidly rare add-ons.
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all I'd do is slightly increase aura reading time for green keys, e.g. 20 seconds (from 10).
Make it so the purple key only allows one survivor to escape, and the hatch closes behind them (not causing EGC)
reduce red key aura reading from 30 to 6 or 7 seconds. make it so the hatch is only open for as many seconds of aura reading are remaining on the key, with a minimum of 1 second for it to open the hatch at all.
That way franklins work against it again, you can still get coordinated escapes for the achievement but theyll be less likely with purple keys essentially being a 1 person use.
Maybe change the addons to be a bit more adventurous? reduce the liklihood of getting keys in chests or make it so the hoarder perk restricts items found in chests to rare or lower. (that way ppl would actually run it with a real use instead of memes).
or maybe even make a new mechanic for the hatch to spawn rather than complete x generators. not sure what tho
EDIT: also make the unlock animation for the hatch like 5 seconds or something, and killers can grab them whilst in this animation.
EDIT 2: or the hatch disappears during EGC / after its been kicked closed
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@Terra92 I am making a change to them, one that balances them out from beiing broken annoying item into something that has uses but isn't OP like before while NOT scrapping entire mechaninc out of the game.
Ideas of full rework are all nice and dandy but anyone who thinks that devs will EVER, make a full rework of functional item that in their stats doesn't show any harmful data, is naive. I'm keeping it real.
@Munqaxus Most of the time, moring takes longer then actually taking a survivor to a hook unless it's miles away which is rare (also doesn't trigger hook perks) so by themselfs, they often affect killer's gameplay more negatively then positively. With perks, it's double crossed sword, you don't get hit by DS they might not even have but you also don't get to use pop etc.
They would still open the hatch but only after gens are done, allowing to bypass gates and also in a situation of last survivor alive which is the fair way to handle hatch opening. Most survivors already use keys in a way that they wait for others to die or if they die by chance they just take 100% guaranteed hatch. The only scenarios that wouldn't happen anymore is the the abuse to let 3 survivors escape for free after their mate died and they 3 genned themselfs.
All the ideas to rework keys are nice but not realistic, devs won't scrap whole functional mechanic of hatch opening just because. It just need some small tweaks to be balanced out.
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And if they are changed to do anything different than to allow survivors who meet the conditions required to use keys currently then I honestly think a lot of survivor mains will be moving on or playing the game a lot less. Keys are not a problem. Killers get all these anti gen perks and yet still complain about generators which are REQUIRED to allow keys the chance to even be used. Doors often spawn so close that if you're the last survivor there is no point in even trying to open the door let alone find the hatch which by the way is probably going to be closed the very moment it opens when the third survivor dies (which is complete and total BS by the way that they can even do that).
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I have said this a million times and I'll keep saying it until the day they get changed.
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- You can't use them once depleted, if u use blood amber to see the killer for example and exhausted the key
- 4-5 second time to open the hatch, enough so you don't open the hatch in the killer's face & enough time for two basic attack without STBL to down you.
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Yea I'd feel pretty bad for that last survivor who still needs to finish repairing 1-2 generators because someone with a purple key hatched out if this were the case.
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Yeah idk why gates spawn so close like that it's way too easy for ranged killers.
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but if he were the last survivor, the hatch would spawn would it not?
EDIT: actually, this raises a good point. 2 people could just find the hatch, 1 escape with purple key and 1 escape when it opens natturally afterwards. hmm
maybe after the purple key survivor escapes, EGC starts? im not too sure
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I haven't played in a key in forever. I used to do it all the time because I found it to be a fun and risky way to play. Half the time I'd die before I even get to use it. In most situations there are going to be dead survivors before the key is even able to be used and if they're not, then the killer let all 5 gens get done in which case the survivors found the hatch before you did and also all realized someone had the key if they aren't swf. Keys are more conditional than people think. And again, its that one match that a survivor escapes with a key that offends killers the most and creates this narrative of keys are bad. Can survivors just play the game without everything being taken from us please?
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This is the better and plausible idea. Its not so much that keys are a problem it's that hatch spawns and promotes survivors to ignore completing gens. Its easier and faster to change how the hatch spawns vs waiting till keys and their addons are reworked.
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Make it so that whenever a Survivor goes up to the hatch and attempts to open it they hear a key breaking sound then instantly get sacrificed to the Entity.
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This is how I would change keys
1st there is only 1 key that can open hatch now the skeleton key, it can also no longer be found in chests and has a specific model in lobby to distinguish it from other keys its usage time is decreased to 10 seconds of use
2nd you can no longer quick switch to skeleton key in lobby, keys will be locked in at 30 seconds to prevent shenanigan's
3rd hatch is now opened with a 10 second animation, progress resets upon being hit or stopping the interaction, hatch closes behind a survivor as they jump through it
4th, change the other 2 keys and key addons, broken key now has 20 seconds of duration with a basekit 20 meter survivor aura reading (without channeling) and dull key now has 30 seconds of duration with a basekit 20 meter survivor aura reading (without channeling)
(the without channeling effects still work if the key has no durability you just need to hold the key to get the effect, all effects work with open handed basekit and addon ones)
5th addons changed to as follows
Prayer rope, extends the basekit aura reading by 4 meters
Prayer beads, adds 15 seconds of use to the key
Scratched pearl, extends the basekit aura reading by 8 meters
Eroded token, While channeling see the auras of injured survivors and they see your aura, if this is the only channeling addon increase efficiency by 50% (item lasts 50% longer)
Gold Token, Whenever you are hooked all survivors see each others auras from 10 seconds and the closest healthy survivors aura is highlighted white they gain a 25% increase to heal speed for 20 seconds if they white highlighted survivor unhooks you
Wedding ring, Whenever a teammate is hooked all survivors see each others auras from 10 seconds and the closest healthy survivors aura is highlighted white they gain a 25% increase to heal speed for 20 seconds if they unhook the survivor
Milky Glass, Removes channeling abilities with key, Whenever your aura would be shown to the killer block it and remove 1/3 of key durability
Blood Amber, (maintains current effect)
All effects that affect other survivors have a pop up in the bottom right of the screen (like kindred or other perks) so that survivors affected know they are being affected
Keys are now a powerful aura reading tool that can block your aura, see the killers aura, or help coordinate teams with kindred like effects and speed increases for utilizing them, hatch escapes from a chest are no more and keys in lobby now have a clear sign if they are for hatch or if they are just for auras so killers can ease off survivors who like to bring broken keys
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The problem isnt really them being used on hatches its that it ends the game prematurely.
Only the person with the key can use it to escape. It never appears in chests. Ever. Thats it.
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No just stick to my idea and change the hatch spawn conditions to 5 gens done or one survivor left, or if not we can delete them from the game.
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Unsure, but one thing I would do is make it so there is a clear visual difference between green keys and purple/iri keys. That way the key add-ons could be used and not be a threat to killers for escaping through hatch. One way could be change 'broken keys' into a different object that uses the same add-ons, perhaps like a 'keychain'. Same idea as the green key but visually different.
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Thats your opinion. I like my idea better 🤷♂️
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actually I think both of our ideas are good that I can't decide which is better.
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My thinking with mine is it offers an interesting choice to the person with the key. Theres one gen left. One persons dead. You see the hatch but if you leave your teamates are stuck trying to do the gen themselves. Or, you stay and try and help them. It also means you have to decide what to do when the killer has franklins, if you hide it and another survivor finds it, youre not getting that escape.
Whatever is done they have to be removed from chests. Plunderers is legit broken.
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I would make moris how they used to be and then it would be fine. Cause moris and keys balanced each other.
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I would make it so only the key holder could use a key to escape through the hatch.
I would make it so that if used - the key is gone - getting rid of Milky Glass addon.
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If you use a key it screws over your teammates, that's how it should be. It should be a last ditch effort to stay alive, not a 4 man escape.
How would survivors like it if the killer had an add on that says 'when the hatch spawns, you can mori survivors'. It's exactly the same and survivor mains would be up in arms about it if this happened. Why should survivors get a 2, 3 or 4 man escape, if the games gone badly.
Survivors cry about, and try to nerf, no-ed but keys are exactly the same. They get to 2 gens but their team has been looping terribly and two are dead, no matter if it was fair play or tunneling. Why should the person without a key get to escape? If a killer plays badly survivors say no-ed rewarded the killers bad plays if he gets a sacrifice or 2. Keys do exactly that, reward survivors for having a bad match.
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Why should the person without a key get to escape? Because they're a team and are trying to survive together. Also in the entirety I have played this game with nearly 1,400 hours played I think I have seen all 4 survivors escape by the hatch probably 5 times. Its usually just 1 or a couple when the odds have become very dire for the survivors and the only real chance they have is to find the hatch in time.
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Keys don't need a change.
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Probably turn the key into an offering instead of an item. The hatch appears only when 1 survivor is left or all gens are done. If all gens are done, and a key offering has been cast, the key will randomly spawn in a chest (whether opened or not) and then can be used to escape.
A notificate can be made when the key is used, and the hatch takes overall 10 seconds to open. Its timer does not go down if the process is interrupted.
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Unlocking a hatch only works if generators complete or it's endgame collapse. That's the change they need. You don't get to skip your objective.
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I made a forum post about this exact topic. Maybe give it a read and comment your opinions about it
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/245536/key-rework-idea#latest
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I'd make them be used for opening/replacing breakable walls. You'd do a short animation where you stick the key into the wall/open doorway and twist, removing or replacing the wall. Each use would use up a large amount of charges.
I'd also replace hatch with a final chase. Once one survivor remains, EGC starts (grey timer until chase) and both sides will see each other's auras for a little while (not affected by perks/Undetectable). Pallets would be reset depending on how many gens were done.
Once the chase begins, the EGC timer would from grey to orange, and the survivor will have to avoid the killer until the timer reaches the half-way mark, at which point the Entity will open the gates and the survivor will see the auras of them and have to escape. Once the timer reaches about 20%, the survivor would gain Haste and Endurance for a short time. If the survivor escapes, they'd get bonus BP. If the killer catches them, they would be able to mori them and gain bonus BP as well.
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Same can be said for old moris.
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I would change them so that they blow up in the survivor's face and kills them upon use.
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Honestly, I think Keys have been left the way they are because Kill rate is so high.
But, with all the whining about it, BHVR might actually change it.
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There is no comparison to how game changing old moris were compared to keys. The old moris were so powerful it was like the killer having a 2nd power to use in the match. Keys were still conditional. I still had to complete ever so many gens even when my team was being slaughtered around me. In fact it was hardly worth playing unless you did have a key against the old moris and even still you didn't always make it.
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Once they’re depleted, you can’t open hatch.
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And so were old moris. You needed to find, chase, loop, and hook somebody once, then do it again to get any effect. That's still conditional. Different than keys, but still conditional.
You do realize it's a 4v1, right? You don't need to pound out gens, you can simply loop, or hide in a corner, and let your team do the work, and still teabag on a hatch and escape.
'Do people not realize that killers find the hatch first before survivors do way more often?'
Where is your evidence of this claim? Your experience alone is not a blanket statement for the entire game.
'Do they not realize that all they'd have to do is proxy camp it while keeping an eye on the doors?'
So, they have to guard gates that could pop on opposite sides of the map, and a hatch? You make that sound like it's easy, especially on larger maps, or M1 killers. And would it matter? This scenario comes down to a 1v1. Of course the killer is in the power role here. If the killer closed the hatch and just needs to watch the gates, then the EGC has started, so why would you be entitled to a key escape? You try and win, or you try and die.
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As said by many others, just make it so the hatch itself only spawns once all the gens are done or a single survivor is left (in which case is spawns + opens like usual). Stops keys from getting around 3gens, stops people from waiting for others to die so they can key out before the gens are done/everyone else is dead. No changes to how it works beyond that, once the hatch has spawned the key opens it for 10 seconds or whatever, and anyone that gets to it can escape through it.
And oh, make the hatch-opening ability exclusive to only the Skeleton Key. Give the Broken Key and Dull Key a rusty, bent/broken kinda model, while the skeleton key has a visible silver/chrome look to it. Give the Dull Key the high charge count of the Skeleton Key, so it's the go-to key for aura reading related usage, while the Skeleton Key has just 5 charges - it's for opening the hatch and that's it, unless you put a +charge add-on on it.
I'm certain that as long as keys can open the hatch in any way some won't be happy with any changes they make. But I'm sorry to say, they're just gonna be unhappy. I can't see the entire concept of keys opening the hatch being removed, ever.
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