When are the devs gonna get rid of NOED?
Comments
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There's more to the game than just gens. I mean, are gens really that fun? Sitting there and holding M1 for 80 seconds at a time? Is that the only thing you want to focus on? Gens? Totems give you something else to do. Totems are the devs' attempt at a secondary objective, they didn't put totems on the map so survivors would just ignore them, they're there to slow down the match. Survivors have the option to ignore totems and rush through gens denying the killer time but at the risk of NOED, or slow down and do totems to avoid NOED but give the killer more time during the match. Once the exit gates are open the killer is much less of a threat, but NOED makes him dangerous again. A survivor hasn't escaped until they've gone through that gate and past the entity blocker. Until then, the game is still afoot.
I'm not saying NOED's fun to go against. As a solo survivor, I hate cleansing four totems and dying to NOED, it sucks. But NOED is the counter to Adrenaline, a perk I see used much more often than NOED, and survivors can deactivate NOED before it ever comes into play. Adrenaline is one of the things that gives survivors the impetus to rush through gens, because they know when the last one pops they'll get an automatic heal, so there's NOED to slow down gen progress, or survivors don't slow down and NOED activates and counters their insta-heal.
I'm not a fan of Adrenaline. If the devs get rid of both Adrenaline and NOED, I'm for it. But it's both or neither.
In the meantime, the devs just released a perk to help survivors find and quickly cleanse all five totems. Or there's Detective's Hunch. Or hey, Small Game even has a totem counter now, which is a huge buff for solo survivors.
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If you don't wanna cleanse all totems then here's what you can do.
Step 1: Open an exit gate
Step 2: Escape
If these steps are too much or you don't want do that here's what you can do.
Step 1: unequip a perk
Step 2: Equip Detective Hunche's or Small Game
If any of these steps are unclear or you don't wanna do them, your part of the problem.
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If the devs got rid of NOED(reworked or nerfed), in what way would they change it so there's still a threat to not cleansing totems?
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Do bones and quit gen rushing😛
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When are devs gonna address comms?
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90% of the time you handicap yourself with 3 active perks.
Not sure why survivors hate noed so much it's actually a handicap on killers and has a possibility of never activating.
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Easy, use counterforce, detectives hunch, or small game
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Imagine complaining about NoeD in 2021.
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A reward on one side is also a punishment on another killers do usually put in just as much risk as they get out reward from noed, as long as you only focus on the reward of one side you are leaving out 3/4ths of the argument in favor of making a specific point that is no longer counterbalanced by its other factors and claiming that specific point makes something unfair since now its a biased argument
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It doesn't reward bad killers, it punishes survivors who slam gens without doing the totems.
Killers always assume someone has DS and doesn't tunnel. If a survivor unhooks, you always assume they have BT. Why can't survivors assume the killer has NOED and just do the bones?
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As a killer main I never use Noed. I would be completely fine with it being removed. However if they were to remove Noed to compensate I would love it if they removed dead hard.
That's a perk that also rewards bad game play. You make a mistake you won't make it to that loop. Press E and you win.
I feel its the same as Noed. At least Noed can be stopped by cleansing totems. Dead Hard not so much.
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The problem with removing NoED is that it's a threat, even if the Killer does not run it; Survivors don't know if he has it or not, and have to do or not do bones, in a risk vs reward system.
Do they risk ignoring bones & pop gens, only to get NoED at the end?
Or do they risk wasting time doing bones, only to learn that they could have genrushed after the fact?
You remove NoED and that risk is gone; Survivors can genrush all day long because they KNOW NoED no longer exists.
Removing it changes the game in more ways than just 'NoED can't be used'.
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They'll remove it when people stop making threads about it ;)
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Well that's just how everyone wants to play now on both sides. I don't know what to say players just want the match over with as quick as possible. NOed is just something you'll have to deal with if your whole team is dead before 1 gen is done there's no point in breaking totems, but if gens are getting done you should start looking for totems. There are perks to help find them remember where they spawn at, and look for them on your adventures😀
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I really don't understand the hate about noed.
the killer is playing with 3 perks for 95% of the match essentially handicapping themselves
majority of the time the game ends before noed activates.
survivors can do bones to totally counter noed.
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NOED gets nerfed everytime they add a new anti-totem perk in the game.
small game now has a totem counter even.
the problem is survivors want to use Dead hard, DS, Iron will and unbreakable so they have no room for a anti-totem perk and when you tell them to do bones they will keep telling you they aren't wasting their time with that.
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Nope.
Survivors needa stop complaining about Noed,
Yall can counter it WAAAAY before the game starts,
Don't wanna hear it,
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NOED is one of the easiest Insta-Down abilities to counter in the game. It is a huge gamble for the Killer to run it (or not of the Survivors are lazy and won't do Bones). The DEV have given you SO MANY tools to find and kill Totems efficiently that it isn't even funny. If it isn't apparent by now, let me spell it out for you, they are not going to get rid of NOED. They have given you everything you need to do it yourself.
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its an unfair perk and we all know it
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No, it isn't. I don't have the time or patience to write you an essay on it, but I could. The Perk is perfectly fair, probably one of the most balanced in the game. It is simply reviled because it plays on weakness of Players who do not want to do ANYTHING other than Generators. It is one of those things that is entirely in the hands of the Survivors; they decide if it goes off or not. You know when it is going to trigger, you know how to turn it back off. You know how to stop it. You have entire game where the Killer is playing one Perk down on the BET that you will be lazy. Get the program and do your secondary objectives.
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I think NOED should only give a speed boost. I respect your opinion but i dont think its fair.
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Noed was made when Killers were in such a bad spot.
Compared to now, with all the regressions perks and optimizations we got, Noed feels outdated.
It is an overkill perk for new survivors and soloQ, because there is no incentive to do totems.
Look at the tutorials. You've seen a totem or something talking about hex perks ? Nope.
Totems are NOT a secondary objective. Stop with that narrative.
Totems are a simple way to counter powerful hex perks, and thats all.
If a killer applies pressure on a team of 4 SoloQ survivors, guess what ? You dont have the time to do totems / search all around the map for totems.
Noed is a relic from the past, and needs to be reworked.
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Nope, I didn't read it. ;)
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Noed is directly comparable to exhaustion perks, exhaustion perks typically increase a chase by about 15 seconds, and noed reduces the cgase by about 15 seconds.
The difference is noed can be invalidated by doing bones. Youre trading end game chase time for during game gen time when you do that. Which is why the best play is to ignore it. Do gens, if the killer has noed, let them have their 1k and leave.
If you want to get rid of nied then you also need to ditch exhaustion perks. I dont see either happening personally
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Totems were added specifically to be a secondary objective, and noed gives incentive for survivors to do that objective.
If the killer is running noed, they gave up a perk slot for it. So they have less room for all those other perks you hate, theres also a high chance theyre running another end game perk too like blood warden, neaning theyre playing the whole match with 2 perks.
Every valid argument you can make about noed can be applied to exhaustion perks
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If you play Spirit & Hag without using their power (for both 110% with 24m TR). You will find Spirit is easier than Hag. Just by standing and Survivors will make stupid move themselves.
Noed is the same, because of its existence, survivors will always pay times to cleanse dull totems (not all of them, but you know when 2-3 survivors cleanse a totem each, they save you like Half a Gen time eventhough you dont have Noed.
If Noed is removed, no one ever touch dull totem. And Gen rush become more powerful because they know they risk nothing.
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Sprint burst too, youre just extending the chase by running straight. Lithe, balanced landing, all of them except maybe head on. Its all the same as noed
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I'd be fine with noed if they gave solo survivors a totem counter basekit.
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Run small game, its a great perk 🤷♂️
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Or, hear me out, I shouldnt have to use a perk in solo when I'm already in disadvantage when swf gets it for free.
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The game isnt balanced around swf, its balanced around solo. Its why killers have such a hard time dealing with swfs. Using "swf gets it for free" isnt an argument because swf gets a lot of thibgs for free. Shoukd you be able to see all of trappers traps? Shoukd a hex totem become visible to all survivors as soon as 1 sees it? Should you be able to see the killers aura at almost all times.
Obviously the answer is no. Run small game or ignore noed altogether and just leave if the kilker has it.
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Are bad killers get bailed out by NOED, or are they not getting kills while the gens are up because they're short a perk or two? It's not always clear cut. Even if NOED does go off, the killer should only get one survivor at most if the survivors play it well. Works both ways.
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The Killer had to use a Perk slot for the Noed? The problems with SWF (which are many) are irrelevant here. And I manage to cleanse an average of three Totems a game without using a Perk at all.
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1) No. It's not a secondary objective. It serve no purpose except cleansing Hex and activate some survivor perks.
2) I dont care what the killer runs. My point is Noed is unfair against SoloQ and low elo players. Noed + BW is a meme and has nothing to do with the Noed complaints.
3) Comparing Noed and Exhaustion perks is a "killer vs survivor" mentality nonsense. Both require balance, yes. But they wont be treated the same since they have totally different purpose.
You guys have to stop with this "if noed is gone, we must take dead hard in our fall". It's stupid and doesnt serve balance.
You guys should suggest solutions instead.
Example : Make noed a non-Hex token perk, 2 hooks = 1 token. Each token grants a one shot once doors are alimented.
This would reduce the frustration caused to survivors since killer would have to work to get it (devour hope mentality), and that would avoid for killer to have a blank slot if totems are cleansed.
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On Freddy i sometimes like to run noed + blood warden + stbfl + bbq. Im a pretty good killer, not god tier but certainly not bad. In my experience there are games where i 4k befire the last gen pops, i was always going to win thise games, there are games where 2 survivirs are dead when the last gen pops, i woukd have won those games easily with 2 more perks.
Then there are games where all 4 are still alive when the last gen pops. This is where it gets interesting, some of those i for sure woukd have lost and unless the survivors are really silly bloid warden and noed do nothing but get me a 1k. Some of them woukd have been really close/good matches where a single mistake by eitger side coukd push the game.
RARELY does noed + blood warden net me a 4k if all 4 survivors are still when the last gen pops, but those moments are funny which is the reason to run this build.
My take away is RARELY is noed + bloodwarden the determining factor in the outcome of the game. It probably FEELS unfair to the survivors in those situations, but i only had 2 perks all game 🤷♂️
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1) They are a secondary objective if the killer decides to make them a secondary objective. Since noed exists it behooves you to assume he has it unless you can figure out what his buikd is and do bones
2) exhaustion perks are unfair against low rank killers that have no idea how to counter them
3) they dont have different effects though. Exhaustion perks extend chases, noed reduces chases when its active or slows down gens if survivors cleanse all bones (giving the killer more of a chance to deal with all the exhaustion perks).
I really dont though, exhaustion perks and noed have the same effect on the game, if you want one gone then be happy to have both gone. Personally, id be fine if noed and all exhaustion perks were gone
You dont have to earn your exhaustion perk, you simply tap a button and the chase is extended 15 secs. Why does the killer have to earn tokens to use noed?
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If you are playing in a SWF, cleanse the totems.
if you are playing solo, just get out or take one for the team, aka eat the noed and die so your randoms can get out.
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cleanse the totems is that ez
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the problem is cleansing the totems takes so much time.
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If you dont want to cleanse totems just it Takes too long then dont complain about noed
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I feel like this conversation is going to nowhere, but I'll do a last try. After that, I'll let you to your convinctions.
1) The killer doesnt make totems a secondary objective. Once again, totems are here to make Hex perks available, and some survivor perks aswell. Secondary objectives dont exist in this game. I guess we can say some killer powers are an objective by itself, like reversed beartraps or plague fountains. But totems definitely are not this type of objective. Totems are not a secondary objective because you think Noed provides this feeling.
2) Agreed, dead hard for distance is an abuse, for example. But comparing it to Noed, once again, is a nonsense. Make a different thread if you want to talk about that.
3) Thats what I say. Noed and exhaustion perks are different subjects. If you want to talk about chase time reduction, noed is not a candidate. Talk about stbfl, yes. But the purpose of noed is not to reduce chasing time. It's to one shot at the end of the trial with no pre-requis.
"You dont have to earn your exhaustion perk"...
I dont say killer has to earn token to use Noed. It was a balance suggestion. Dont put words into my mouth. It may not be optimal, maybe. But it opens a debate, compared to the "killer good survivor bad" (or the contrary) cliche of discussion we find on this forum.
The idea is to find a solution to make the game balanced. Plus, exhaustion perks are limited and situational. 3 second speed or dead hard, require 45-60 seconds recovery. Once you know which survivor is running which perk in the trial, it's the killer job to play around it. A low rank killer wont notice the Meg havin 3sec sprint. It's not that impactful. The killers have powers anf their brain to counter that. Dead hard for distance, once again, questionable.
But it has nothing to do with Noed. Noed is a subject by itself and has no point of comparison into the killer or survivor loadout.
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1) NOED is a hex perk 😬
2) its not nonsense. One extends the chase by 15 seconds the other reduces chase by 15 seconds. I dont need to start a new thread, these things are related like it or not
3) They really arent, theyre two sides of the same coin, you ignoring that doesnt change it
You offered a balance suggestion, and i asked why you think its ok for noed to have to be earned but not your exhaustion perk. Nobidy put words in your mouth, its what you said.
Noed and exhaustion perks DO balance eachother out, thats literally my point. You get to extend chase by 15 secs, i get to reduce chase by 15 seconds. Thats called balance. Noed is also limited and situational (just like exhaustion perks). Its not just a 3 second speed up, its erasing a mistake and dropping a pallet which leads to another pallet or vault. It takes about 15 seconds to get a hit, dead hard extends that abput another 15 seconds
Survivirs have have perks and their brain to coubter noed (see how this keeps happening? I told you, theres nothing you can say about noed that cant be said about exhaustion perks).
You can keep saying noed and exhaustion arent relatable, doesnt change the fact that they absolutely are
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Bruh the devs do sometimes dumb ######### but most of the new perks are all awsome, fun and very creative, its not their fault if you are not smart enough to see that and use them.
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As I said, this discussion with you goes to nowhere. Since my first post you just copy past what I say by changing the narrative to your advantage. Changing a "do" to a "dont".
No thanks. Have fun with your discussion running in circle.
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Nevah!
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Changing a do to a dont?
There is no narrative, i pointed out a reality to you and instead of either accepting that reality or explaining how its not a reality you stuck your fingers in your ears 🤷♂️
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Lmao, there's 4 surviors and for sure all of them at least once will see a totem in a game even by accident. So it is 4 totems now out of 5, if you don't like to cleanse totems then accept the risk of the NOED
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Either break the 5 totems or break the one totem after it activates. If you suck at finding totems bring a map or perk for it, learn the spots, then take it off once you do if you don't want to run them anymore (you can still keep it for efficiency reasons).
Small game and Detectives Hunch work fine as well as the new Jill perk.
I haven't had a problem with NoED in a very long time, although I'm usually the dedicated totem hunter in my group since I know the spots fairly well. Learn the spots, its not hard to counter and the killer plays the vast majority of the game with one less perk.
The survivors have 16 perks between them, they can easily give up 1 for a totem perk to counter 1, potentially more, of the killers 4 perks.
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NOED is fine. It only punishes lazy survivors that are to busy doing gens.
/thread
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One other thing to add: NOED isn't even something that needs to be pre-cleansed. If the killer has NOED, leave or don't. Assess the risk of looking for the totem and saving vs simply leaving.
So often people frame this as "killer got 2 or 3 extra kills because NOED". That's....insanely bad survivor play if that's the case. You're greeding gates when you shouldn't be, greeding the last gen, not spacing correctly, going for saves you shouldn't go for, etc. Sitting there and tanking a hit on the gate is a really dumb play if you don't know whether or not the killer has NOED.
Survivors need to stop blaming perks for their poor game sense. NOED should be 1 extra down/kill max. Maybe 2 if they get lucky and down someone near both gates. If the killer downs a survivor and patrols to the nearest gate and sees you trying to open it at 50%, that's on you. Not NOED.
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