General Discussions
General Discussions
So Twins got shadow-nerfed. AGAIN.
Take a look at these three addon descriptions.
All three of these addons have two things in common.
- They only work while Victor is charging a pounce.
- Said requisite was NOT THERE BEFORE.
All three of these addons used to work when Victor was idle and you were controlling Charlotte. Now they've been changed so that they only work when Victor is charging a pounce.
This is a hard nerf to these addons that make them literally, genuinely, absolutely pointless. Soured Milk and Madeleine's Glove were really good because Victor's Killer Instinct was determined by the range of his shrieks, similar to Doctor's static blast—if a Survivor could hear Victor, Charlotte could see them. So louder Victor = more tracking. Now, though? The addons actively hurt Victor by making it harder to charge a long-range pounce without being heard, or making it more obvious he's charging a pounce mid-chase. As for Drop of Perfume? Already a low-tier addon, but now it truly serves no purpose. After all, what's the point of making Survivors Oblivious when you're PLAYING AS VICTOR?
These are stupid, senseless nerfs that completely gut three entire addons. And once again, it was a Twins change that BHVR did not, in ANY BLEEDING CAPACITY, mention or tell to anyone in any way. This is the fourth, count 'em, FOURTH shadow-change to Twins since 4.7.0 and the THIRD shadow-nerf.
I get people don't like playing against Twins, but I haven't seen a Killer get this surreptitiously changed in the entirety of DBD. Even when they nerfed Pig 37 separate times, they had the integrity to tell us it happened. This is just ridiculous.
EDIT: Cat's Eye also has a new description. It used to be "Victor's shrieks stop when Pounce is fully charged." Now the description says "After fully charging Pounce, Victor roams silently."
Comments
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Fingers crossed they made these changes so my friend and I can co-op play Twins. Otherwise, bad addon reworks. Really really bad.
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Yeah I'm feeling gaslit cause this wasn't mentioned in the patch notes at all from what I can tell, and it's a significant change in the text of the addons.
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That bhrv for you they dont even know how to do a patch
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👍️
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My, mostly unsubstantiated, guess is that Twins have a very high kill rate statistically, and the balance team is desperately doing random nerfs because they don't understand why the kill rate is so high.
Said kill rate being high is because:
1. They probably have the lowest pickrate of all killers by a long shot, and are very difficult to learn and play, and so most Twins players will be people who have stuck with the Twins and as such are good at them. Such as Dowsey. I'd be genuinely willing to bet that his winstreak matches alone have made up at least a quarter of all Twins games.
2. Twins are difficult to play against for solos, like Hag and Freddy. They do have counterplay, but very few people actually know and use it. Not only that, but since nobody plays the Twins, survivors have not developed experience in playing against them. Remember when Bubba got reworked and nobody knew how to play against him, and people said he was an S tier killer? The same is happening for Twins, except they are played much, much less than Bubba.
This is why they do things like run away from a Victor who missed a pounce or downed somebody, and run in towards hooks without crouching to check if Victor is there.
3. Twins are very good at camping and slugging, and this often overwhelms solo players. Plus, people tend to suicide against Twins a lot, pretty much winning the game for them.
The only nerfs the Twins need is to increase Victor's respawn time by about 4 seconds, and to make it so that Victor gets destroyed if he's in very close proximity to a hook with a survivor on it. Aside from that, they could use some buffs, honestly. Mainly to their tag-team aspect - they are strong killers, but could be so much better for the game with some tweaks to let Victor do anything other than slugging. Using him as a sentry is a bit of waste considering survivors can just crouch up and kick him, and he's not applying any pressure during this.
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I never use those addons since there are much better ones, but it begs the question why would they nerf them to begin with?
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The reason Twins has a high kill rate is because the few people who play them play them like they're practicing for a comp tournament. They play Twins incredibly basic but since, like you said, people don't understand how to counter Twins and don't like going against sweats, those people just give up.
Also I'm just throwing it out there, Dowsey sucks at Twins. Seriously. He has terrible positioning with Charlotte, over-relies on Victor, sucks at mapwide pressure, and misses pounces frequently. He plays Twins like a clunkier hit-and-run Wraith and as a Twins main it physically hurts to watch.
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I'd disagree, personally. Twins have more than one playstyle, and his method of applying as much map pressure as possible is much more fun for both sides than just getting everybody injured with Sloppy Butcher as Charlotte before mass slugging with Victor. Plus, mass slugging doesn't work that well if survivors have a brain and group up in pairs, or kick Victor after he downs someone.
I don't know. I like playing Twins as a macro, big brain thinking killer rather than "injury woman and nae nae baby". Again, though, much like Plague they have multiple playstyles. I'll admit I slug if I have to, but I never go for anything higher than 3 man slugs unless the team has really annoyed me.
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Im gettin real tired of my babies being nerfed
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In the same time, BHVR and transparency...
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Is it just a text change or did the effect of the addons actually get changed?
We've had past instances of BHVR accidentally putting out text changes to addons before a killer got reworked. Also Franklin's got changed on RE chapters and the text for the perk wasn't changed immediately. BHVR is very bad at keeping text accurate.
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That's the thing. That whole "hit with Charlotte, down with Victor" thing that most Twins players do? Dowsey does that exact thing, only he just doesn't use Charlotte. I admit I don't tune into his streams frequently because I hate his personality and clickbait content, but when I see a Twins video of his pop into my YouTube feed, 99% of the time it's him instantly unbinding Victor when he finds someone and then flailing about uselessly as Charlotte waiting for Victor to come back when he either lands a pounce or misses it and gets kicked. It's so sad that people think THAT'S top-tier Twins gameplay. It's not only NOT top-tier Twins gameplay, it's actual bottom-of-the-barrel, I-don't-actually-understand-Twins gameplay.
And regarding slugging not working, you said so yourself: Most Survivors don't know how to counter Victor, which means it works quite well most of the time.
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I think people not liking to play against the Twins is beside the point.
This is ridiculous that they think there aren't players who are going to notice these nerfs.
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I swear, BHVR hates these guys.
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What even is the point of these addons anyway?
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I just noticed this. However, the only add-ons I play are forest stew and Madeline's scarf. I am also a twins main and my kill ratio is very high. I dont seem to be bothered by this because all in all people dont understand twins and how they work only because she's are very rare killer. But, I do see your point.
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I feel like they're going the opposite direction to where add-ons needs to go.
This is just Freddy's add-ons again. The options for good add-ons are becoming more and more limited for the killer.
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The question, to me, is what do these changes accomplish? The Drop of Perfume in particular.
These effects benefit Charlotte, since I understand that Victor's grunts and screams are the area of effect for the Killer Instinct that you get while controlling Charlotte and it's only while controlling Charlotte you have a Terror Radiusto be Oblivious to, but the effects are only available when Victor is charging a pounce, which can only be done while controlling Victor.
Are they possibly prepping to make Victor AI controlled like Nemesis' zombies? Or possibly giving the Twins co-op capability like @Steel_Eyed is suggesting?
Not really on- topic but speaking for myself I've been wanting to try Twins more and am trying to find ways to play without over-relying on slugging, like using Victor more for slowdown or detection (the latter in particular is useful to me since tracking is a personal weak point)
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Someone should test this to see if only the description was changed, or the actual effect as well.
It's a weird change, because as it stands the new verions of the add-ons would do exactly nothing. Victor can't see killer's instinct. It might be that this is a an accidentally leaked add-on description for changes that will come to the Twins power as well.
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how the ######### would they work while he is in a pounce?
That makes zero sense so you get a fraction of a second of increased killer instinct when you switch from victor to charlotte but only during a successful pounce?
WWHAT?
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Right. The only way these work is if Victor is able to attack when you're not controlling him. That's why I'm wondering if they're thinking of giving Victor some AI capability. Or even both, where whichever twin you aren't controlling becomes a bot.
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Killer instinct does not trigger WHILE playing as victor so how are these add-ons even remotely useful now?
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then the nerf should come AFTER they add ai.
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Yes, but that would mean assuming the devs deserve more credit than they've been known for.
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Drop of Perfume is useless because what's the point of making surivors oblivious when Charlotte is Undetectable when idle? Devs please.
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This makes me assume that they're actually getting a rework, why in gods name would you need oblivious on victor for current twins?
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YES PLEASE BlessRNG
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The most unfun killer in the game got another nerf? I don't see the problem here.
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UPDATE
I tested the addons with a friend. Their effect is the same as before. The description is incorrect. This means that this is most likely a case of party bottle Clown where they accidentally leaked some addons for a Twins update.
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Grateful for the changes, but not announcing the changes is #########
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Grateful???
These addons are basically useless.
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I mean one of the quotes on the anniversary loading screen is Almo talking about the potential synergy with huntress' purple add-on that gives 15 seconds of undetectable after reloading.
You know huntress, that killer where you always have a pretty good idea when she's in the area anyway...
So no I'm not surprised the balance team decided making survivors oblivious while charging a Victor pounce is an interesting and useful add-on.
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Ai victor soon i hope
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Itll let her sneak up on you easier, unless you hide when in lullaby range
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Just completely rework them. At this point I frankly have no sympathy for the twins as they are awful to go against and to play for most people
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If they make Victor AI I'm never playing Twins again.
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Same, honestly. Removes such a massive component of their skill cap if they just become an M1 killer with a stronger, single zombie.
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Victor is a power as I found out requesting info about cosmetics for him. So that will never ever happen.
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Ah yes the "Balance Team" in all their wisdom strikes again.
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Maybe in theory, but she's not going to catch you completely off guard anyway and 15 seconds isn't that long. I've gone against a huntress with it on lerys (bad map for her, a better map for the add-on) and it didn't achieve anything, it was just slightly confusing
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honestly tho, they probably have stats saying that she is killing too much like The Pig and now they are giving the twins the same treatment.
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People don't like playing against twins?
Correction: people play against twins?
...
Since their chapter dropped, I've gotten the Twins 3, count em, THREE times.
Each time has been a blast, but jesus, NOBODY plays twins.
Sucks a killer no one plays it getting shadow-nerfed. I'm desperate for more Twins games.
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Another Twins nerf? Ugh-
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That's my guess, though maybe not AI Victor so much as AI Twins. Whichever one you're not controlling becomes a bot. Less effective to still give incentive to switch between them, but a way to add pressure and really make it feel like it's 2 opponents instead of one.
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Oh wow. I didn’t notice this until you pointed it out.
These are very, very strange changes. It’s not like Soured Milk or Madeleines Glove were too strong.
And Drop of Perfume went from pretty good to more pointless than Haemorrhage.
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For what it's worth I just used a Custom game to check and, despite the definition changes, it doesn't seem like their in-game effects are different.
Drop of Perfume still inflicts Oblivious when Victor is Idle vs pouncing.
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@MandyTalk can this be forwarded on?
Drop of Perfume is essentially an add on without a function now.
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Agreed
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I did some digging. The addons are functionally the same. The descriptions however are very different.
This is also true for Cat's Eye. The description now says "When Pounce is fully charged, Victor roams silently."
I think this is a party bottle situation.
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Just start shadow buffing the twins instead, thanks.
Make Charlotte being asleep still emit a terror radius so I can use unnerving presence :^)
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