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The "buff" to Trickster is a joke
Sounds good to me that they reduce the knives needed to inflict a health status from 8 to 6, but wow...
In just 10 seconds it begins to decay, and on top of that they have increased the speed at which it decays. That in many loops that there are with high structures that don't allow the Trickster to hit with his knives is going to be very noticeable, because literally you are going to have to hit 100% with M1. 15 seconds would not seem bad to me, but 10 seems excessively little, and on top of that, added to the fact that it decays faster...
And not only that, now the Main Event is even more situational, they increase the time you can keep it without using it but it forces you to have HALF of your knives to use it (that is, you will have to recharge most of the time in a locker to use it, so forget about using it most of the time if you're on a chase and you've probably used up half your knives).
I don't understand why they have to apply buffs and nerfs to it. Not even keeping the decay meter for 20 seconds would get the Trickster to Tier C.
Seriously, do you think if you keep the decay meter as it's now you are going to create a Spirit 2.0? Lmao.
TL;DR: Now you only need to hit with 6 knives instead of 8, but the decay meter is nerfed considerably and the Main Event is even more situational. Literally he is going to stay in Tier D, it may approach Tier C, but considering that this is the second "buff" he receives, it seems absurd that they keep making joke changes.
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I still don't understand why Main Event isn't just a toggleable ability, like Oni's.
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I suppose I can't know until I actually try the "buffed" version but it sounds like my assumption on his development remains the same...
EDIT: To add a bit more of a discussion, I still just don't understand why his knives decay automatically period. Like...I'd get if the survivor could wipe them away with a "mending" type action but I can't think of a single killer where they can do some kind of damage to you and it just goes away on it's own without the survivor having to do something (go uninsane from Doc, Cleanse from Plague, Mend from Legion, etc).
Post edited by tippy2k2 on4 -
I feel like it is a blatant net nerf, but at the same time, he will probably feel more fun to play? No clue, I don't own him. They definitely nerfed more than they buffed, however.
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More fun? You are going to hit a survivor with 5 blades, you are going to enter a looping with high walls and in just 10 seconds the decay will begin. In fact, in another 10 seconds you will have lost 3 of those 5 blades that you have hit.
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Probably because they’re still being cautious about how potentially oppressive Main Event could be.
Using your example, if a survivor manages to make Oni miss, there’s a window of opportunity to try and get away. Main Event, when active at opportune times with few LoS blockers is completely relentless. I can see why they’re still being cautious.
That said, 30 seconds is a much larger window than (I think) many players realise. It seems short when read, but in game that’s a long time. I almost always feel like I get LOADS done, or travel far while Dark Devotion is active for example, but that’s also only 30 seconds.
I think the 30 second window will make Main Event much more flexible than what some are imagining.
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You're going to get the Main Event during a chase, and you probably can't use it in the middle of that chase because you'll have less than half your blades. Let's say you manage to take down the survivor, pick it up, hang it up, go to a locker to reload blades and be able to use the Main Event. More than 20 seconds have already passed in that process, probably even 30 seconds.
This "buff" sucks. It's the second "buff" that they do to him, and with the first buff they didn't even move him from Tier D. With this "buff" something tells me that he will continue there. Let them be as cautious as they want, but the months will go by and the Trickster will still be crap.
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USB was already arguably Trickster's strongest add-on, now it's DOUBLE base kit, and you think he hasn't been buffed enough? This thread is a joke.
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How about we test the changes, and then make conclusions.
Sure i’ve thrown around some guesses myself, but that’s based on my experience of knowing just how flexible half a minute in this game is.
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That it was one of the best Trickster addons doesn't make it a good killer. Even if they give it to him as a base kit, it isn't going to make him a good killer for the other nerfs I have mentioned, but hey, just look at the buff!
Your comment is a joke.
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The issue is that you still aren’t capable of choosing when to use it, so unless in those 30 seconds you find yourself in those rare,very situational moments in which Main Event is actually viable, you are still better just ignoring it unless you are very low on knives (and most of the time, is just better to reload).
If they are that worried that the ME could be oppressive, they could just increase the amount of knives necessary, like you had to land 60 or even 100 knives, but you get to activate it anytime you want. That would make way more useful than it is now or with the “buff”.
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You're misunderstanding that particular nerf to Main Event. It's not "You need 30 knives in your inventory to use it" it's "You need to land 30 knives to charge it instead of 20."
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Oh.
Well, although you honestly just opened my eyes, it's still a nerf, now you need to hit more times to activate it, and on top of it you only have it for 30 seconds. It still seems absurdly situational to me considering it's his power. It may be useful in certain situations, but not in many others, considering that in the end you are slower than survivors when using it.
This ""buff"" will continue to keep him in Tier D, perhaps touching Tier C.
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I did played Trickster a lot with his add-ons that reduces knives by 1 to explode the passive, and that was HUGE.
You need to know when to use knifes now, for example, if you see that a Survivor is going to break LoS and you'll take some time to get their vision again, don't lose your speed by winding up and throwing knives, wait for a better position.
So you need to be smart when to use your knives in all scenarios. And his buff is huge, most 90% of the time you will be able to explode the passive and even if you losed 1 because of 10 seconds, it still applies pressure to the Survivor being chased and after regaining LoS you'll probaly have the chance to land more of them.
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I can understand the concerns, though I personally disagree with them.
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these buffs fail to address any of his actual issues.
they literally just turned him more into a Deathslinger 2.0 with that ._.
his power doesnt need any straight up buffs! (okay no, it does - but only as a secondary aspect)
what his power needs is something to make it stand out! just give him the freaking trick blades (the ricochet add on) basekit already ;-;
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You just defined the Trickster problem, it takes too long to take down a survivor because of how difficult it is to hit them with the blades. Trickster is an incredibly nerfed Huntress.
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Camping is not powerful. Survivors can make it powerful by stopping all gen progression, but that's not the same thing. Camping is literally just the killer doing nothing for two full minutes.
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As a trickster main this really is nothing but a buff. If you are saying you are such a god that within 10 seconds I can't hit you with a knife at least once or spam 5 at you when you vault a window then yes it's a severe nerf. Being able to almost down a survivor when they just vault a pallet or window is great. 20 more seconds of Main Event as well is not something to scoff at. His ultra-rare that sucked now gives you your knives back on main event essentially removing the serious need to reload. With it needing 30 knives to get Main Event it seriously isn't that big of a deal he has 60 of them and potentially 85 of them, if I can't hit at least 30 of them, then yes Trickster is horrible, but you forget that his ability isn't exactly a massive issue if you miss like huntress, when she misses it's 1/5 gone if he misses one, he gets 59 more to go.
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You do realize that you can hit a survivor with 4 knives when they vault, right? Jesus.
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I think overall this will be a net buff for him but we'll see how fun it is to play. The knife requirement is interesting but I'll reserve judgment for now. The reduction of knives needed to remove a health state looks really good.
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Because for some reason bhvr REALLY hates trickster. I dont understand it either. Theyve been doing this for 5 years. They had to know this was going to be ######### 🤷♂️
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So, fun fact, Trickster already has things about his power that make him stand out when compared to Huntress.
- He's packing more potential injuries in his ammo pool and has easier time getting more. 7.5 is more than 5 and Trickster's ammo addons are brown and green respectively vs Huntress yellow and purple.
- At all points, a Trickster using his power is faster than a Huntress using her's.
- Trickster doesn't have to stop throwing knives when he gets his injury. It's somewhat common to get 3-4 knives into the Survivor you just injured as they run away.
- If Huntress fully charges her hatchets, Trickster can actually inflict injuries faster than she can. Huntress usually does so... in an area without cover, Trickster is more lethal than she is.
More fun facts... the change from 8 -> 6 knives for health state makes all of those strengths more pronounced.
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but... i never compared him to Huntress?
i compared him to Deathslinger, who is very similar to him - with the exception that he requires aim and cant just hold down M2 and is much stronger than Trickster, while playing essentially the same.
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Maybe 3 seconds for each blade in them. they could get down like mending but pick the knives out of them. I want my time as killer to not be wasted if I drop chase. I don't want to dedicate and be looped for a while, or not dedicate and have my time with that survivor wasted.
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this is very big buff to trickster. Trickster will have some of highest firepower in the game.
One of trickster's major strengths over any other killer is that he does not need to wipe his weapon after he takes hits and his throwing rate is extremely fast. he will just tear through health states like butter and you will deeply regret ever attempting to bodyblocking trickster.
he could A-tier but I am not sure about his add-on changes. only concern is fizz soda change. that add-on is pretty important to him currently. hopefully it doesn't hurt him too much.
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Most of what I said comparing Trickster to Huntress also apply to Trickster vs Deathslinger.
Bayond that, Deathslinger's play style very strongly resembles a glacier. He's going to run you over, but he's going to take his sweet time doing it since Shoot -> Reel -> Swing -> Wipe -> Reload is so slow. But... preventing a Deathslinger from hitting you is insanely hard. He's going to shoot you, he's going to hit you, he's going to down you... and you better hope your teammates are on gens while he does it cause you ain't getting out if you don't rush gens.
Trickster is honestly almost the opposite when compared to Deathslinger, especially after these changes. 12 knives to down is going to make it so if he finds you in a bad spot... you aren't getting away. He's going to down you faster than any killer that hasn't got an insta down. On the flip side though, in good spots, he won't be able to do much to you.
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so essentially what you're saying is that the main difference between the two is, that Trickster can down people in a deadzone much quicker than Deathslinger?
because i can guarantee you: on any loop that features LoS blockers (alias 99% of loops in this game) Deathslinger is going to down a Survivor faster than Trickster. hitting one shot and then reeling for 3 seconds is much quicker than hitting 8 (and even 6) shots, especially if the Survivor knows how to use LoS blockers to their advantage.
during all the time i played that man (and i played him a fair amount) i only ever got two hits with him where i actually thought "damn, i could not have done that as Deathslinger!"
he is so similar to Caleb it honestly hurts. i mean, they even share the exact same weaknesses!
i wouldnt mind it so much if he was a weaker Deathslinger, when at least they'd buff him to be a 4.6 m/s Killer, so he isnt as reliant on his knifes as he currently is - and he'd have better map pressure than Caleb and would play at least a bit different around loops.
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Dead zone or short loops... but yes. Also there's a lot more short loops in this game than you seem to realize. Badham is mostly all dead zones against Trickster unless you are inside one of its buildings. Those short car loops aren't going to do you a lick of good. Unlike Deathslinger, against buffed Trickster they won't be able to trade being healthy for getting to a building.
Beyond that... Deathslinger can't really do much if he's got multiple targets at the same time. In fact he doesn't want that even a little because Survivors can get on his chain and take his swing away from his intended target, also robbing him of getting Deep Wound. Trickster on the other hand... will be packing enough ammo to inflict 10 health states worth of damage and the fire rate to pull that off if the Survivors don't find cover. Even current Trickster can really drop the hammer against aggressive Survivors in ways that Deathslinger simply can't.
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even those loops feature LoS blockers that can be used to avoid further knifes.
im not saying he cant down people over those loops, all im saying is that he is much less effective at it than Caleb. Especially on short loops, the reeling time for Caleb is essentially nonexistant, meaning that he downs people even faster on those than he would around a jungle gym.
Beyond that... Deathslinger can't really do much if he's got multiple targets at the same time
funnily enough, the same can be said about Trickster, thanks to his passive laceration decay making any attempt at spreading the damage essentially worthless. at least Caleb forces them to go and mend somewhere / heal to avoid getting ambushed (another thing Trickster cant do thanks to his Lullaby and him having to hit 8 shots instead of the one Caleb needs).
also, and please be honest with me here, when have you ever cared about whether the guy you shot as Deathslinger got Deep Wounded or not? they take a hit for them? okay! then instead of landing one more shot on their mate to down them, i'll simply land one more shot on the bodyblocker to down them. chase wise its literally the exact same.
all in all, if my Killers only advantage over another Killer is that i can kill people quicker who are already hugely outpositioned (so something i have basically no control over) and would end up dying to anyone else anyway, then i really have to wonder if that is a power worth defending.
Thats essentially like saying old Leatherfaces power was fine because he could easily kill people who were in a huge deadzone / decided to unhook in his face.
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As a trickster main you would have to play trickster a lot differently especially with the decay change. Strong loops against him will be even stronger. Give trickster a power not a party trick
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We've also already seen how Main Event isn't great for camping. Even when spraying at a Survivor in front of you, they get the save off before they get injured since knives, last I checked, don't interrupt actions like hatchets and Slinger shots do. It's also possible that they manage to break LOS before the rescuer can be downed. It basically makes just M1ing with Trickster better than bothering with knives since it's literally the same amount of time taken.
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Exactly! This is why this buff was huge for him. How can you call this buff a joke when it cuts his chase time A LOT.
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The buff makes him weaker at strong loops and stronger at weak loops also stronger vs weak survivors and weaker vs strong survivors. Not sure it will balance out to be a net buff at all.
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Reducing the knifes from 8 to 6 is a huge buff. Anyone who plays him with the USB addon knows how it makes strong way stronger and they basically did even better. 30 seconds of Main Event means you'll probably actually have a situation you can actually use it.
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People are trippin. These changes are going to make him so lethal its going to be nuts. 12 blades to down and main event extension with add ons. You guys will see.
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The issue is that while its true he essentially has basekit USB, he also now has decay on a ridiculously short timer meaning he can no longer spread pressure (Which is vital to killer gameplay) or even take too long on any given injure state.
So yes, its a big buff but considering his other problems with his power it probably won't be that transformative. Making the situations where a ranged killer is going to down you down you even faster is sorta... already the entire problem with Trickster and why he isn't good. Huntress doesn't want to give up strong burst damage at loops to down someone extra fast if she catches a vault, she is already ridiculously good at that and the tradeoff doesn't make sense.
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Honestly I don't think it really matters. If you stayed 20 seconds without hitting a single knife and they started decaying you really shouldn't be commiting to this chase anyway. It's still going to take around 3 seconds to decay each knife and a good Trickster will either drop a chase he can't land consistent knives or just literally down the survivor.
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The difference between 30 seconds and 10 seconds is huge. The entire reason I think it may be an accidental nerf is because, realistically, you are right trickster SHOULDN'T see decay in a chase they are in at 20 seconds... but at 10... well...
Breaking a safe pallet literally takes 2.5 seconds. If the survivor then uses those 2.5 seconds to get distance and turn a corner, your now already decaying. In the time it would take a survivor to start decaying, a survivor now will have decayed 1/2 their laceration meter. This is huge, especially because of how easy it is to deny Trickster's ability to hit more than one knife at many tiles (Ex: Shack next to basically any standard loop). So now there are many situations where he legitimately is a 110 killer with no power, which was not the case before.
Most survivors are probably not going to learn trickster counterplay, but what this does is make trickster counterplay worse. So your going to get dumpstered extra hard in the matches that dumpster you. He is now even more of a 'newbie punisher' without many other upsides compared to other ranged killers, which is the opposite of what he needed.
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Plus the recent "fix" for Nemesis put invisible walls on boarded up windows etc so Trickster and Deathslinger can't shoot through them anymore.
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Honestly I'm happy with these changes. I honestly thought Melodious murder should be basekit to make him more viable. I think it should be good for the most part. Also while I don't understand why you can't hold Main event indefinitely 30 seconds is a huge buff from 10 seconds.
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Please can you tell me where did you heard that it will be 6 knives at base? I cannot believe they gonna do it because its literally CRAZY, Trickster is weak, but when she uses the addon to reduce required knives to 7 instead of 8... BOY thats broken AF, i cant even imagine 6 or 5 (with addon)!
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Read the Developer Update.
They're chaning the addon that reduces the amount of laceration needed.
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He desperately needs the following changes to become somewhat viable:
- Bouncy blades as basekit (he's called the TRICKSTER after all, where are the tricks?)
- Remove laceration decay, force survivors to pull out the knives via mending instead
- Allow Trickster to store his Main Event indefinitely (!)
Simply lowering the number of needed knifehits still won't make him playable if survivors keep hugging walls and waste his time on strong loops. He already excels at downing people in deadzones, this upcoming change merely cements that but it won't address his glaring weaknesses whatsoever.
The point of a rework should be to fix the most egregious issues, not to highlight them even more.
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Trickshots as Trickster is definitely the most fun aspect of him.
Sending yourself to The Game and just swinging your knives around is so much fun.
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Oh, also one more thing: he'll still have his awful 40m lullaby terror radius like Huntress despite being significantly worse than her. If he can't even sneak up to people just because his tune is audible so much sooner it'll rob him of his only opportunity to get some early hits in. Now he'll be absolutely forced to loop every single survivors he comes across.
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The whole killer is a joke
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i think your very much missing the point behind the change. trickster is going feel a lot closer to huntress and deathslinger because even though he needs hit 6 knives, he throws much faster than people give him credit for. A lot of your trickster matches i predict after this change goes through are going to be
Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding - health state loss(survivor get speed boost, put away knives). you walk up to them, Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding. down. Trickster will still retain his SMG playstyle(from killer point of view) but from survivor point of view, your basically going to be losing health states nearly instantly so for survivor, it will feel more like burst damage move. you won't notice decay at all because the meter will instantly fill up and if you aren't filling up the meter to chunk full health state, why are you even throwing knives in first place? Another aspect that is not written in patch notes is that because trickster needs less knives to down, he reloads less, so instead of reloading once per 2 downs, he will reload once every 3 downs(with proper aim). He will also be able to use his main event more effectively mid-chase and he will more easily be able to 99% his main event because of the math behind 1 injury and 2 downs being 30/30 knives.
Trickster will no longer be a bad killer anymore. he might even be difficult to escape and perhaps even more powerful than huntress/deathslinger if the player has really good aim. hopefully survivors do not call him boring after he becomes a threat.
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These buffs are a complete non-starter. I've been playing Trickster a lot in KYF settings against very good players.
Even at 6 knives, the only way he downs really good players consistently is by camping and forcing them into the open.
At 10 seconds for laceration decay, Trickster will be absolutely incapable of downing a high level player on most maps. It will not happen.
Scrap laceration decay. Let us hold Main Event.
The Main Event changes alone tell me they don't understand why Trickster is weak from a mechanical perspective. Main Event doesn't suck because of the activation time. It sucks because you're slow as molasses, so if a survivor simply goes around a corner, you can't ever get another angle to hit them for the duration of it. It could activate instantly and still be bad.
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They just made him more annoying to play against, that’s about it
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I feel the most blatant change was changing the knife laceration meter from 8 to 6. Rest of them are pretty nice for the most part but I still feel he's not going to be really fun to verse.
Granted I feel this is a good set of changes for him. I feel one of the bigger issues he has and always will have is switching targets and pressuring the map. For example mid chase someone can just block the knives being thrown and you pretty much end up being forced to switch to m1. This is especially obvious end game where you can't do anything without main event. This is why I feel main event shouldn't have a timer and maybe he should be able to do splash damage or something along those lines.
One of his issues was the time it took to down someone but the knives going from 8 to 6 is actually a big deal. It addresses the problem although I won't say it solves it. The other issue is he needs to hard focus a single target and can't really switch with his power. This is pretty much what will lose Trickster the game from experience.
At least BHVR is trying I am admittedly surprised Trickster got any changes at all.
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