I believe decisive strike should be usable twice per game
Hey there. Firstly, i would like to preface that i am a survivor main, meaning that my opinion may be biased. I do, however, play some killer, but not nearly as much.
Currently, i think DS is heading in the right direction. I think the previous DS was too strong and overall unhealthy. However, I'd like to suggest an idea for DS; what if it could be utilized twice per game? For example, let's say i hook a survivor. Eventually, they are unhooked and i down them again. Once i pick them up only to get DS, i understand that i no long have to fear DS due to its inactivity. What's stopping me from tunneling that person to death? However, with this new perk idea, i understand that if i hook the survivor for the second time, I will be punished if i tunnel this person again. Ultimately, the killer is faced with 3 choices once the DS survivor is unhooked for the second time. The first option is to down the DS survivor and slug them. This allows both party to play more strategically than just outright eliminating the survivor from the game. The second option is that the killer would pick up the survivor, knowing that they have DS. This will be the least popular option. Lastly, the killer can chose to chase the unhooking survivor, rather than tunneling the DS survivor, for the second time. This change will make DS truly an anti-tunneling perk, rather than just punishing the killer once for tunneling. What do you guys think? Too strong? Unnecessary? I'd like to hear your opinions.
Comments
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I don't think this is a good idea. I feel like many survivors would try to find ways to abuse this.
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Interesting. Would you happen to have an example or idea on how this can be abused. After all, this DS idea is entirely dependent on the killer's actions.
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agreed
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DS will work only you pick up them. So when you see one survivor has ds, you will not eat ds again. You can leave them slug or just do not tunnel.
And this buff will be good buff for DS. DS will work only when killer is tunnelling. So i hope devs buff it.
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Is this a generic answer to be against things or care to explain how you want to abuse something which takes you out of the game for 60 seconds if you want to keep it?
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It would be like old ds with people running right to the killer to peel the killer off another survivor if they made it 2 use.
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Hey remember that joke I made about how some people think that nerfing Decisive Strike to 30 seconds would have some people wanting it to be activated twice?
I feel like this thread skirts that pretty closely.
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I agree, but don't expect many others too. DS, getting a buff? Heresy!
I was always of the opinion that when DS got nerfed, (which it should have) that it should get buffed in it's anti-tunnel capabilities. I always preferred the "Timer stops while slugged or in chase" buff.
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Agreed
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I believe its unnecessary, the perk at the moment can still be used in an aggressive way and it still has a VERY strong effect at the end of the day.
Survivors also have many other perks to combat tunneling.
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Nope, DS is not strong perk. At least DS is not stopping me with taking 4K.
And also when i play survivor, i do not feel it is so effective.
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I play 50/50, killer/survivor (give or take). I rarely eat a DS, and I run it on every survivor build it's available on, for context.
I would welcome this change. It would definitely aid in the anti-tunneling aspect, and it still wouldn't affect the way I'd approach things from the killer aspect. I'm not sure how it could be abused from a survivor end, so I don't see an issue there. The issues with it being abused were removed with the last changes that were made.
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Ds is fine, its an anti tunnel perk but its no longer abusable, its power level in terms of anti tunnel are the same they don't need to be buffed for no reason use more perk slots
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There are multiple things you can do:
- Timer stops while being chased or slugged (which would be a true Anti-Tunnel Perk since you still get tunneled when you are chased off the Hook or slugged immediatly)
- Make it activate twice
- Increase the timer
- Remove Scratchmarks, Grunts of Pain and Blood for a few seconds after the stun to allow the Survivor to gain distance
I also hope that they buff DS at some point to make the Anti-Tunnel stronger, since Killers dont really give a ######### if they get hit by DS or not, if they eat it early, they can tunnel the Survivor out of the game after their second Hook.
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Apparently it's still strong enough to be in every ######### survivor build in Solo Queue. That's like saying BBQ needs to be buffed because the aura reading isn't strong enough.
DS really doesn't need to be stronger. It's fine where it is right now.
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That survivor would be wasting their time and jeopardizing their whole team. With two people in a chase, there is only of maximum of 2 others on gens, which isn't even garunteed. The body blocking DS player will get folded and the killer can continue chase with the other survivor or pressure gens.
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And there should be mandatory secondary objjectives for survivors to do. We all want things.
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I can maybe see this work only if 3 or more gens are up, but when the killer is down to two gens or less, lots of times, tunneling is the best option and they shouldn't be punished for choosing it. But even then, if the killer is against a team that knows how to loop well, they really don't have much of a choice but to tunnel/camp, especially if they're facing a coordinated swf.
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Based
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DS still has the exact same effect it had before its nerf, its just not stupidly strong and cant be abused. At the end of the day it is still a 5 second stun which allows the survivor to gain distance. And waste the killers time.
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Because it is basically the only Anti-Tunnel Perk which exists. Especially in Solo Queue I cannot really guarantee if that guy who unhooks me does it safely or if they even have BT.
It is not a good Anti-Tunnel Perk, but basically the only one. That is why it is taken.
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Did i said DS power changed lol? DS was weak before too but it was annoying because survivors were doing gens on your face. But it was never strong perk.
And yes it needs little buff. I agree with this topic.
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?
Did you mean "biased"? And did you realize I agreed with you?
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No, based is slang for, "This person is spitting facts." I'm saying that what you are conveying is a legitimate opinion.
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Ah -- gotcha. You have to forgive me -- I'm old, lol. Never heard the term before. 👍
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Lol all good
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Are you certain? Because there are a whole slew of other anti-tunnel perks out there. It's just not used as much because it isn't as powerful or as strong as Decisive Strike is.
Borrowed Time helps you get a free hit from the Killer while injured.
Off the Record/Lucky Break helps you get away from the Killer to hide and make sure you're not spotted.
Deliverance allows you to unhook yourself while the Killer is away.
Literally any Exhaustion perk that allows you to make a large distance from the Killer.
They are good, they help you from being tunneled. But they're not as useful as Decisive Strike could be. And the fact that the developers nerfed Decisive Strike so it doesn't work if you're working on anything shows that they realize how powerful this perk is, and wouldn't want to touch it, let alone buff it in the near future.
The reason Decisive Strike is useful is that 5 second stun. That allows you to make significant distance from the Killer. More than Lithe and Sprint Burst could. More than hiding with Off the Record or Iron Will could.
But that isn't necessarily going to help you get away from being tunneled by the Killer if he REALLY wants you dead. Buffing Decisive Strike already makes a powerful perk even more powerful and even more annoying.
Like I said before, I joked that people want to compensate nerfs with something else. And this is exactly what I mean.
A nerf is a nerf because whatever it nerfs was too powerful or too easily abusable by players. So they changed it so it isn't as easily abused.
For what it is, Decisive Strike is fine. It isn't going to stop a stubborn killer, but it would discourage Killers from picking you up too early or risk eating the stun. Either way, you're better off keeping it on if you're having trouble with Killers instantly coming back to your hook.
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In what world is a perk that can completely strip a killer of his pressure weak?
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Not really DS is the only anti-tunnel perk in the game at the moment honestly. I personally like in it's current form. I think 1 per match is acceptable. You can't say BT because it's not in your power.
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Decisive Strike doesn't need anymore changes.
It does its job. Its fine how it is. And there are many other Survivor and Killer perks that need buffs rather than Decisive.
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It will not strip a killer of his pressure weak, it will punish tunnelling. For now it is doing nothing. 5 second stun is not effective. But if they buff it for both hooks, DS will be better.
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It wont do anything if the survivor isnt experienced, DS isnt meant to hand feed you a free escape if the killer dares to look in your direction after youve been unhooked.
Its in a fine spot now
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Thank you for your opinion but it is not. DS is anti-tunnel perk. So it has to be more effective to punish tunnelling.
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I mean I don't see why not.
I rarely ever get DS activated against me, meaning it'll only work against tunnelers most of the time.
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Thats like saying "Pop is a gen regression perk, therefor it needs to regress gens more".
If a survivor is good, DS punishes a tunneling killer HARD. It shouldnt give bad survivors a free get out of jail free card. Or in this instance, 2 get out of jail free cards
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now that DS is fair and balanced, i dont have a problem with that idea
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Pop is good perk lol, what are you talking about. I am using on so many of my builds.
And DS is not free get out of jail card. It is here for punish tunneller killers. And i am not DS user, i love chase perks more. But this is not mean i will not say DS is weak because it is bad perk at moment.
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I know Pop is a good perk, so why would we change it? Its unnecessary. Just like how changing DS is unnecessary.
And exactly, its not a get out of jail free card yet thats what some people want it to be
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Pop does not need buff because it is good perk. But DS is bad perk. It is not effective and if you do anything you will lose it. So after both hooks it has to be active. It will be still weak but better than this version.
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You keep saying DS is a bad perk. Please explain why you think this
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Because i tried it with both roles enough time.
As survivor i felt it is weak perk because it never helped me againts tunnel. But i am not bad survivor, so DS just gave me breath time.
As killer survivors never escaped from me, even after DS stun. They still died. And i never felt to get punish by DS. It was like longer pallet stun.
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DS may seem like its not doing much on the users side. But every one else feels it. Say you use DS. Already you can gain around 16m of distance on the killer. And if the killer decides to chase that survivor and theyre experienced, that survivor can waste a whole lot of the killers time.
The survivor who had DS may not have escaped but think of the other survivors who had a golden opportunity to heal up, do gens, open a gate, etc.
DS wastes a tone of the killers time and at high level (not your average red rank game, im talking ACTUAL high level play) DS can be a game changer.
Just because you dont see use out of it, doesnt mean others arent affected by it
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It really comes down to whether or not Survivors and/or Killers believe that DS should guarantee that the killer MUST leave you alone after an unhook or be severely punished for it. Translation: Should survivors be guaranteed second chance for each of their unhooks?
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No. And let me point out why:
D.Strike stuns the killer for 5 seconds. At the moment, that's 20 seconds of stun if everyone brings it. In matches that can last around 5-6 minutes (Or 300-360 seconds).
Double that to 40 if everyone has it twice and oof!
Not to mention Killers will just slug once they eat the first D.Strike.
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0 times sounds better. <3
It's already a ridiculously strong perk.
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Decisive strike is very powerful. Waste a killer's time while he's chasing you, be guaranteed to escape if you manage to hit a skill check, and then waste the killer's time for as long as he chases you.
The perk gives you an extra chance, you as a survivor have to use your own skill to make that chance count. I think that is how it should be. I genuinely don't believe we should encourage perks that just allow extra chances like that in either side.
I think extra chances should be earned by good play. That's why No way out and Pop Goes the weasel are pretty good, and so is Will Make it. They reward you for doing things well, whereas DS just safeguards you from making mistakes or being outplayed.
Not to mention organized survivors do still know how to abuse it as it is and make extremely aggressive plays that disrupt the killer massively, because they know they're safeguarded by what's supposed to be an anti tunnel perk.
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Actually, there's quite a few anti-tunnel perks, but none are as reliable as DS.
- Second Wind
- Borrowed Time
- Off The Record
Second Wind requires a full heal, all 16 charges to activate, meaning any less and it won't activate. Upon the prerequisite, it has a 20 second timer, which is plenty of time for the killer to down you. Granted, Second Wind isn't meant to counter tunneling very well, its main purpose is efficiency.
Borrowed Time is strong, but you can't trust teammates to use it when they unhook you. Meaning if they don't have it, you're getting thrown back on the hook. Otherwise, it's pretty solid when your team has it equipped.
Off The Record doesn't counter tunneling in the slightest despite trying to hide your presence. It only works if the killer is soft tunneling you, which means they won't throw the game to tunnel you, but if they have the opportunity to tunnel you — they will do so.
Decisive Strike is reliable because it takes effect immediately after being unhooked. No prerequisites and you don't have to rely on your teammates. As a bonus, it wastes more time in general regardless if they slug you or eat the DS — BT doesn't waste as much time as DS. Moreover, the fact that DS exists in the perk pool makes the killer have to gamble on weather or not you are running it. Leading to some situations where killers avoid picking you up, meaning you can benefit from DS even when you're not running it.
This is why DS is so powerful, no wonder every survivor uses it. It does what it's supposed to do unlike other perks.
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Agreed. But as a trade-off, DS should not be able to activate in the endgame. Once EGC has started, DS would not activate upon being unhooked, and any already-active DS would be disabled.
I think now that it is strictly an anti-tunneling perk, there is no reason why it shouldn't be able to activate up to two times. In both cases you are still getting tunnelled. On the other hand, in the endgame the killer regularly has no choice but to tunnel in order to catch anyone anymore at all. DS is BS in that scenario.
For a more extensive rework on top of this, I think the DS timer should be reduced to 30 seconds - but if the survivor gets downed during those 30 seconds, DS remains activate until the survivor is either picked or healed up off the ground. 60 seconds is too much time for it to still be "tunnelling", but on the flipside slugging people out of their DS timer is BS, encouraging slugging on top of tunnelling is not really desirable. Also, healing onself should not disable DS. Only once fully healed should DS be disabled, not already when the survivor is merely attempting to heal.
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So you confirm my point?
You list two Perks which you declare as "not meant to counter tunneling very well" and "does not counter tunneling in the slightest" and another Perk which is out of the control of the respective Survivor, because a Teammate has to have it.
Let alone that conditions make Anti-Tunnel Perks pretty unattractive, it does not really help if I have to heal another Survivor for a full Healthstate if I get found first...
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Yeah, I'm supporting your point.
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