Next killer rework or buff

I cant say any of the killers are in a good position right now. Without perks receiving attention. If the perk is slightly buffed. It CAN become much too powerful and really be overwhelming to mid-tier and starter ranks. While in Red ranks where players are skillfully experienced. It won't make much sense to NOT buff a bunch of perks or even switch mechanics to the game.

I'm still trying to make a case that BBQ and Chili is too strong in Mid tiers and in Top tiers it is a perk that serves ZERO purpose. While at the same time. I am wanting distortion to have ZERO required tokens.

Then when it comes to all of the hexes they have. Hex are ONLY dynamic at mid-tier and lower rank play. Which I would like to see something different DONE with them. The abilities are really cool. But they are under-utilized.

While I would rather see perks like FIRE UP and Brutal strength to receive major buffs :)

Myers max. individual stalking should reset everytime Tier 3 ends.

Also an option to go back to tier 1 by pressing Ctrl.

Trickster as he just kinda exists with no real purpose nor is he that much of a threat.

It would also set a actual standard that BHVR would actually rework characters when needed instead of waiting for years of killers being bad/badly made before they actually decide to fix them.

Clown T_T

The fact that he doesn't even show up on the list of options in the poll just shows how little people care about the character. Clown needs some serious love, not the useless yellow bottles that do nothing- a real doctor level rework.

That is just so incredibly wrong on multiple levels. Clown has been consistently the worst or bottom 3 for years now, the only character that I actually think is comparable is Trickster.

Trapper has his own problems but the ways to solve them are much more easily identifiable and are much quicker fixes than what I expect Clown, Trickster, or Legion needs which are likely looking at some level of full scale reworks.

Legion like Clown has really never been in a good position power or fun factor wise, but I would still argue in a better position than clown because he does have the map mobility to move around the map quickly and Deep Wounds still serves as a stalling mechanic that forces survivors off generators for a small amount of time, however small that amount of time may be.

As for Myers its frankly a joke that anyone would put him as low as these other killers. The rest I can see as debatable, Myers is most definitely not in the same circumstance as anybody else that you listed. He might be on the weaker end of killers but definitely not bottom tier in the gutter with the rest of these, I would say that's a combination of an overexaggeration of the weaker aspects of his power and an overlooking / underselling of the stronger ones.

As I've said before: Clown is a one-note chase killer with very little substance to his kit who isn't even all that powerful in his chases since he's hard countered by many pallet loops (afterpiece tonic has zero impact on dropping or vaulting a pallet). But this little summary doesn't even do half the justice of the issues, many of which he shares with the trickster because they've got the same design philosophy, chase killers without a shred of map mobility or map pressure and the problem stems from the fact that their chase tools at their absolute worst are both ineffective throughout many chases in a trial. Which leaves them to operate as M1 killers. The difference is Trickster's knives actually do "damage" while the Clown's toxic gas does absolutely nothing and can be more or less completely ignored if you're by a pallet and you'll only be mildly inconvenienced by if you're by a window. "Nurse tier" my butt.

Myers is most likely to get the rework treatment with the Halloween relicense.

If he was in a great spot his play rates wouldn't be as abysmal as they are. His poor standing compared to the rest of the killer cast is reflected in how little he is played / how poor his pick rate is.

And I don't mean to doubt your experience as a Clown main (though I will say I have met very few people that actually main Clown which adds a layer of doubt) I will say there is a difference between being able to play a killer well and that killer actually being in a healthy spot balance wise. It is a very important distinction to be made when gauging the overall effectiveness of a killer and the fact remains there's very little reason to choose Clown as opposed to any other killers that have chase oriented kits.

Unless you like the character himself, which I myself do which is why I want to see the Clown improved and put into better standing- and I would think someone that actually does main the character would understand that and not try to work against the effort to do so.

There's very little to no nuance within his kit, there aren't really many opportunities to grow as a Clown player as far as skill goes and it's not all that interesting or compelling to go against as far as survivor play goes. You drop pallets early, you leave loops early, and you hold W as far as you can in an effort to waste time for your teammates to gen. rush which he can do nothing about since Clown is intended to focus on the 1 v 1 rather than the 1 v 4. That isn't interesting counterplay and in fact that works on every killer so it's not like this counterplay is very specific to the clown himself and that's a key issue with his overall power. There's frankly not enough substance to make it all that fun or interesting at the current moment and I'd like to see him given a secondary ability such as the "Fun Time Gas Traps" which I've mentioned time and time again rather than the useless lemon scented gas.

Which by the way, I fail to see how a 10% speed boost "counters" the hold w meta. 10% is not that significant of a speed boost and you can do the math to prove this. A survivor that's 20 meters away and continues to run at 4 meters per second it would take you a whole 19 seconds to catch up. Here's the math, Clown moving at 5m/s (125% movement speed, which is the 115% mov. speed at base + the 10% from the gas) and a survivor moving at 4m/s + 20. Clown: 5(18 seconds) = 90 meters distance covered. Survivor: 4(18 seconds) + 20 = 92 meters. We'll chalk up the last 2 meters that the clown is lagging behind what he can make up for with a lunge.

Here's the thing though, that math only works if the Clown's movement speed was a consistent 125% which it isn't. The movement speed wears off after only 5 seconds, and then it's back down to 115 so you can assume it would take even longer to catch up to said survivor. And that's not even considering the limited capacity of bottles he has before he needs to reload again which slows him down.

Again, just because X, Y, or Z persons can play the Clown well just like any other killers on the list- Trapper, Trickster, Pig, Legion, whoever, does not necessarily translate to that killer actually being in good standing. There are a lot of issues with Clown that could be resolved in unique and interesting ways that could make the killer far more compelling than the low standard most people currently hold him to. Which I guess also extends to Clown mains themselves now.

Because up until maybe the Twins and Trickster she's arguably the most horribly designed killer in the game with the next most passive ability in third place after pre-rework Doctor and Freddy with very little opportunity to express skill on either side.

(Which to contextualize, is one of the core central tenants of Dead By Daylight: Passive is not fun, and historically we've seen many changes made to powers, perks, and other mechanics to enforce this design philosophy, the aforementioned full scale reworks to Doctor and Freddy but also to perks like Object of Obsession which used to provide constant information at all points during a match.)

To clarify- I did not say she was weak nor did I ever make the claim that she is overpowered, I said she is poorly designed and I use those words very specifically.

You can use predrop W to your advantage. Delicious pallets. Plus you can actually counterloop predropped pallets anyway. Also, I'm sure you haven't played Clown enough. If you don't think the antidotes counter W meta, you need to try it out, it does a lot more than you think.

People don't play him that much because he's not the most powerful killer, he's on the lower end of mid-tier killers. That's why people play the stronger killers like Spirit, Freddy, Twins, maybe Oni, etc... (Hag is underplayed because she takes a bit more skill than the others, other than Oni, and isn't fun to play as for others).

Perhaps "great spot" was an exaggeration because that was my thought, but I would say he's in a fine spot.

Even then you can counter W with the antidotes. Nothing else to say here.

Anyways, I have advice.

When you're in a chase, use the antidotes to catch up to them and get that free hit. If they make it to the pallet, force them to loop it, and if it's a loop you can deal with, you should be able to hit them.

There are no limits to using the antidotes and tonics at the same time, the reload time is quite short so you should be able to gain them quickly. You can fake reloads as well.

There's my advice.

If you think he needs another rework, then we'll have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, he's in a fine spot, and there are other killers that need to be prioritized.

You can't just say "you can counter W with antidotes" when I've literally got the math up there for you to re-read. You're basically reaffirming or restating a claim without providing supporting evidence, that does nothing in the broader conversation.

I'll say again that I believe there are more than enough issues with the character to warrant prioritization, many of which I've listed out and many more I didn't quite touch upon fully if at all, but fair enough. I won't patronize someone who will agree to disagree.

Try what?

EDIT: if you're talking about the implied list- you still haven't even properly addressed the criticisms and points I've already raised. So I don't know why I would give you the opportunity to move on when you didn't really respond to what I've already said. The cocky "oh believe me" is very much out of place here since you haven't really actually written a response.

Dude, the burden of proof rests entirely on you to prove that to me. That's your shtick not mine.

Although again, I believe I was fairly comprehensive in my initial response to such a preposterous idea.

Keep it simple: If a single Play with your food stack can make a difference on the occasion you have it, a similar effect that you can activate almost anytime will be more, if not the same no?

It's a matter of how you use them. Don't place them where survivors can utilize them and paired with a well placed purple bottle, loops don't exist. Pallet drops are even more forced on clown than before if it was even possible.

Also, I tend to throw them directly at survivors doing the W strat. Better than corralling in some occasions.

PWYF is barely used because of how hard it is to get and keep tokens, especially the time it'll waste.

You clearly don't understand what I was saying and assuming you think PWYF is bad when you get stacks, you prob won't understand why these are good.

Meh, find someone new if you won't take the time to practice placement of both bottles.

Again, focusing on my personal experience rather than the actual argument itself, which I guess is apparently indefensible since you're not willing to defend it. Your passive aggressive insults are nothing more than an ad hominem.

You act as if I'm the only one that holds this opinion, I can most certainly tell you that you are the minority when it comes to opinions on the strength of the yellow bottles. They aren't good. They're uninspired, they don't add a significant nuance to how Clown is played (especially since you can play him and never use the yellow bottles at all unlike many killers who rely just as much or nearly as much on their secondary ability as their primary, like Doctor's Static Blast, Pig's RBT's, Demogorgon's Portals) and I will reaffirm they barely have an impact on chases. Again, I refer you to the math I've already posted:

"10% is not that significant of a speed boost and you can do the math to prove this. A survivor that's 20 meters away and continues to run at 4 meters per second it would take you a whole 18 seconds to catch up. Here's the math, Clown moving at 5m/s (125% movement speed, which is the 115% mov. speed at base + the 10% from the gas) and a survivor moving at 4m/s + 20. Clown: 5(18 seconds) = 90 meters distance covered. Survivor: 4(18 seconds) + 20 = 92 meters. We'll chalk up the last 2 meters that the clown is lagging behind what he can make up for with a lunge.

Here's the thing though, that math only works if the Clown's movement speed was a consistent 125% which it isn't. The movement speed wears off after only 5 seconds, and then it's back down to 115 so you can assume it would take even longer to catch up to said survivor. And that's not even considering the limited capacity of bottles he has before he needs to reload again which slows him down."

Scott's words about the ability when it was first introduced on the PTB are no less true today than they were then.

I don't know why you continued anyway, since I was under the assumption that we had agreed to disagree. But ok

Playing trapper is not fun anymore, if you play against experienced survivors his traps are just not powerful enough.

Crouching isn't hard it's just really, really, really boring. I would rather do literally anything else than crouch all game. Besides, teammates can be stupid, the amount of times I crouch walk to unhook a survivor just for another survivor to run over and trigger a trap is too much for my liking. So even if I crouch, that still doesn't mean my team will and everyone still dies even if I play good.