Why is trickster so bad?
Seriously, it's like he was designed to be terrible. Every single game I play with him just goes horribly, because he has absolutely no presence.
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Idk who decided to make him have to slowly take out his knives like Huntress even though he has to hit 8 of them. Atleast make him a 115 if they're gonna do it, otherwise hes completely countered on high wall loops.
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I think it's because BHVR wanted to make Deathslinger archetype #3, that being a killer with great chase but who sucks in every other way, but they didn't include a great chase.
Or maybe they just tested Trickster at one waist-high loop, and said "yeah, this killer's good, ship it".
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Because he is stuck in a bad spot. If he gets a significant buff, it would make him to powerful. Or if they make him 115%. So he is stuck in the extreme, he is going to be the weakest killer in the game, which he currently is. Or if they buff him significantly he would be a top killer that a good portion of the player base would hate to go against. So best scenario is they make him at at least a mid-tier killer.
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He needs to be 115 and the laceration meter needs to go away. Survivors should have to pull the knives out
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I've been playing alot of him lately, using the Soda Can and USB add-ons he becomes pretty OK when you start to learn to aim better with your machine-gun-hands. The USB will become basekit soon which is nice, and some of his add-ons are getting changes so we'll just have to see how he goes. Im thinking his Sonic Speed Shoes and PepsiMax addons will be pretty meta from there.
But god is he slow. If I switch to a different killer I can REALLY feel the difference.
Editer Notes: Just wanted to say, I went from rank 9 - rank 4 just playing as him. And I'm a terrible killer.
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I like him, he is a good challenge to play as. But wow do I get some salt when people lose to him.
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Well, here's why he's bad:
- He has no real way to apply pressure to the map.
- He is required to stick to a single target at a time.
- He cannot change targets once he starts stacking Laceration or else he will lose resources with nothing to show for it.
- He is not good at handling high wall loops.
- He has no snowball potential whatsoever on account of Laceration.
- He can lose damage to a target easily if he loses track of them or they fail to present Line of Sight long enough to refresh the Laceration Decay timer.
- Due to Laceration Decay, Trickster does not have the capability to make long term plays, only short term. By short term, I mean immediate. If he goes 20+ seconds without hitting someone with his knife, all damage he has dealt with knives is gone.
- His build options are a bit more limited than others because he has a Lullaby. (ie: He cannot make stealth builds)
- Building off that last one, it's actually fairly hard to make a build that synergizes with his gameplay.
- Main Event cannot be stored and used as part of a plan, which makes it at best unreliable and at worst completely worthless.
- Main Event fires automatically, broadcasting his location and allowing Survivors to avoid it (and him) rather easily.
- Due to the single target issues listed above, he has no real method of applying pressure to a small group, and must instead pick one to pressure while the others can leave without consequence.
- Main Event, for what little it is worth, is penalized every time he smacks someone with his standard attack.
- Main Event deactivates his knives for a period after use, not allowing him to follow up and finish off any work he did with Main Event.
- On top of everything else, Trickster is a 4.4m/s killer, despite how weak his power is.
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No map pressure + Mediocre 1v1 + 110% ms = Possibly the worst killer in the entire game.
I would make 2 changes to him so he can at least be considered a playable killer. The first would be to make it so his main event doesn't expire if you don't use it. The second would be that the laceration meter doesn't decay naturally with time, instead, the survivors would have to manually remove the knives from their bodies. Of course, with more knives, this action will take longer to perform.
Currently, the devs are just giving him only slight buffs, but Trickster's case is so severe that he would need really beefy buffs to become viable.
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idk what you guys are smoking, his 1v1 is pretty oppressive i'd say even slightly too strong. His major issue is what allot of killers have , and that's having map pressure.
Main reason why someone like Wraith is doing well is because he can move around the map fast and apply pressure.
The only issue i can say that he has in a 1v1 is if you have came out of a chase and haven't reloaded, sometimes you need to go through 2 health states with knives. In those very specific scenario's is the only time the knives are not just super oppressive.
There are maps like Larry's or sometimes you can get in a rut in like The Game, Hawkins is kinda meh depending on RNG.
if you proxy camp you can do some insane plays with Main event, or even just with ur power easily one of the rare killers who can turn a trade in to a 2 down situation.
Its fine if you guys say trickster is weak, because a 4.4m killer with a poor map pressure is not a good mix, but u guys are smoking pure crack if you think his 1v1 is "mediocre"
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He's going to be a lot stronger if the buffs get through
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Looped him for 5 gens a couple of times. Yep he so oppressive that nearly every time out the few rare ones I seen, they always seem to lose the match by a 4 or 3 man escape. I only lost 3 matches to a trickster 😂, but he is a strong 1v1.
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Eh.
His strengths will be better but his weaknesses will be worse, and he has weaknesses for days.
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I don't see how they're buffs, honestly. It feels more like an adjustment.
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Trickster is going to be a killer that will need 2 sepperate entries on tierlist.
On his worst maps he's gonna be C-tier on his best maps high B might even be A
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I entirely disagree with that. Entirely.
It's a "buff" because it takes less hits to down, but every other aspect of him is essentially getting a nerf. So calling it an adjustment is completely fair. If he fails to injure before a Survivor loses line of sight, all of his work will basically get dropped and he'll have to waste time starting over.
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they also keep nerfing him.
during PTB trickblades dealt double damage and basically it took 8 hits to down instead of 16.
Even this was considered "weak" and yet it was nerfed after PTB
then he had a 24-32m lullaby and then they nerfed him again and made it 8-40m.
Now then they will buff him by making him down in 12 hits instead of 16 but if trickblades in ptb for 8 hits was considered weak I'm not sure how well he will be after "buffs"
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Uh I doubt any change would make him a top tier killer
he needs a full rework
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They also increased his lullaby volume.
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Why? He's already a worse huntress, why give survivors even more time to start holding W and getting a huge amount of distance?
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sounds like bad trickster, you might be from a region where all the tricksters are garbage. for example in my region i dont see any hillbilly's but presumably in Australian server there are plenty. but it makes sense that ur biased when the only thing you see is tricksters failing good on you. i have seen a way different picture.
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"but u guys are smoking pure crack if you think his 1v1 is "mediocre""
because of how weak his power is and because of how slow he is, literally almost every single high wall loop is considered infinite against him almost
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Hell if I know. I wanted to main him, but BHVR wants to keep him so weak I went back to Legion.
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the lullaby is the worst part about him and it makes no sense.
the most common argument I have ever seen supporting the lullaby is the fact his knives can travel across the map.
Welp good luck getting 16 hits longer than 20m with his terrible recoil and hundreds of obstacles getting in the way. They would have to be standing still but even then that's hard with the recoil.
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All of this just makes me think he was designed in a hurry, and with no consideration of how he would actually play before he was put onto the PTR.
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Not biased, read my first post on this thread. I literally said I feel that if they buff him greatly he would be too OP. Because I do understand it can be annoying to get hit for what seems for ever with knifes and if it was too be a low number of require knifes he would be top tier. And I looped pretty good tricksters. He is oppressive in the open and if you're running in a straight line, or trying to loop him in a short loop. But once you know how to loop high tiles, trickster ability is basically useless. And he essentially becomes a 110% killer. I'm the least biased person on this thread I speak fairly for both sides. And you do realize they said his kill-rate was the lowest. This is what they said on their latest developer update "Reviewing the data, The Trickster tends to fall on the lower end of the roster (even among the top few percent of Trickster players), so we feel comfortable making some improvements to him to bring him up a few spots". Basically his kill-rate is the lowest which is why is getting a buff.
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he's a literal copy and pasted huntress
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Yeah, something tells me most of his design time came from his actual design. Clearly not much thought went into his power.
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Everyone thought deathslinger was bad too. Not every killer is supposed to be a very easy guaranteed 4K, like Blight and Spirit, to name a few.
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I've faced several red rank tricksters who play him perfectly and dominate. I dont think he's as bad as everyone says its just few know how to play him at his best. Good thing he is getting buffed as everyone should have a fair chance to dominate as him but will that buff be enough? Who knows
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Well, the difference here is that trickster is actually terrible. You can't play windows or pallets like you can with slinger, and the lullaby is frankly unnecessary.
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He exists to be a very high-skill killer but doesn't have the same reward as Deathslinger or Billy or whomever else you want to name. He is very mechanically difficult for a relatively mediocre, but still very valuable (hard-capped chase times) reward.
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There should be balance so there is opportunity for both sides to win. Trickster is another legion, but with 60 knifes that are uncounterable in a deadzone.
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It's a good thing line of sight blockers are so plentiful then, huh? Even on coldwind, the corn will mess up your aim. And don't even get me started on indoor maps.
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They are saying Trickster is OP. Like every killer.
Sluzzy, you should like Trickster. He gives extra health states with Laceration. Surprised you're not demanding Laceration on every killer now. Huntress could have two she has to hit with to injure, meaning 4 total to down. She'd have to reload just to fully down someone. Legion could, uh... I don't know how to make Legion any weaker.
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i mean this is a game i played right now, they are obviously a SWF but iron works is an okay map for trickster. im not saying these guys are like super top tier players, or w/e but this is not an uncommon result. i do get games where i only get 2 kills or even games where i get one and its in the EGC. But the issue has never been 1v1. its that you are a 4.4 killer in a gigantic map, you lack map pressure. and a jungle gym is rough for almost every killer, if we are talking about just like a rock or stacked boxes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . When i play survivor against like some weird Russian one trick Tricksters there wasn't anything i could have done at all 1v1, and i've gotten destroyed on bad maps for trickster like Larry's .
Clown for example is bad even with 4.6m's XD because he also lacks map pressure, 1v1 for trickster is really good so like u for sure are playing against bad ones. Time will come when someone who actually knows how to play will be paired against you eventually and you'll see very quickly. The only thing i could think of is you having a tainted sample-size where you have for the most part seen bad ones, and have created this picture in your head that it can't be good.
DISCLAIMER: im not a Trickster expert i just have fun playing with him, and im not super practiced on him either. But i can clearly tell from my experience that in a 1v1 scenario he is very strong, however his map pressure is very weak and the 4.4m m/s makes it worse.
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The thing about trickster is that he will inevitably get a down on a survivor regardless of how well that survivor plays, in a pretty consistent time frame that really only varies by map rather than any individual player's skill.
Playing against a trickster is already not fun despite the fact that it's a bad killer. Knives are so spammy and skilless that it's both unsatisfying to play against and avoid despite him not being a strong killer.
Where as huntress is satisfying to outplay and dodge, the trickster is not at all while simultaneously being a much weaker killer.
I'm really not looking forward to the little "buff" they're giving him because they're just making the problem even worse. He still won't be good and he'll still be unfun to play against.
Although I disagree that he's the worst killer in the game. A killer who eliminates survivor skill cannot be the worst without being REALLY bad.
Trapper is probably the worst.
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The problem is that the power just isn't one that works for most games. Either you get a decent map and are able to spam blades effectively, or you're stuck on Lery's where you'll never get more than one hit on a survivor before they duck out of sight.
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Imo he needs either the laceration decay to go or straight up make him 115%. Preferably the first option. Reducing the number of knives to down doesn't solve his problem which is being a tunnel vision killer. There's almost no reason to drop a chase with Trickster because any knives you throw that didn't result in a health state go to the trash bin.
I would keep the number of knives to down at 8, maybe even nerf the USB addon, but in compensation get rid of laceration decay. This way you turn him from a mediocre 1v1 to a strategic 1v4 killer who can slowly build laceration across all survivors and prepare a snowball. It also adds up into the survivor gameplay: should I risk doing this gen in an open area or going for this unhook while I'm 2 knives away of being injured?
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That answers that.
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It's his speed coupled with a gigantic lullaby radius for some reason...when his power isnt that good to justify either.
Also the recoil and spread of knives is BS but i don't think that this is his biggest issue.
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except trickster IS bad
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I really love random people showing off 1 screenshot where they got 4k with trickster.
yes we know trickster can get 4k
but even BHVR said trickster has the lowest kill count even for top level players that have 5k hours.
So this 1 screenshot doesn't equal the average trickster
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My brother heard me playing with him while smoking. We don’t even play DBD religiously, but as a gamer you can see the flaws in a playable character. I like him personally. I love how colorful he is. He stands out amongst the killers because it shows you that humans can be monsters too. He’s a sadistic psychopath that goes on power trips due to his privileged position.
Trickster’s main issue is that he’s too FRIGGIN SLOW. Players always run to the high wall loops to juke/lose sight, and he’s too slow to do anything about this. Players will automatically KITE YOU THERE.
The ONLY way I’ve mitigated his speed flaw is by giving him PWYF, and Nemesis. Literally..! The idea is to find the obsession to increase his base speed, and then force players into becoming the obsession to maintain his increase as he injures with his basic attacks. With his speed boosts he can close the gaps in the spots he could not. Sometimes enough to push them into a bad area. If you don’t you make him faster. This way you hold onto all your knives for injured states, rescues, slugs, etc. You have 60 without add ons so it’s easy to chuck at then nonstop until they fall down after they’ve been hurt. It’s alright to expend the speed tokens because once they’re injured he doesn’t need to be fast. He needs his knives to down. Once Main Event is 1 knife away repeat the Nemesis process until survivors go for a save. Use the Main Event to knock the rescuer down. Leave the unhook 1 knife away (Wait out BT). If they DS you, that’s good. Start a chase. Get faster. Leave them be. If not tunnel, and kill them simply for DSing you. Since nothing will save them from your speed increases other than body blocks. When you passively tunnel players until death hook the others will almost always come to save said person, and when they’re doing this they aren’t doing gens. If done right you can psyche players out. Even then it’s really hard especially once players realize what you’re doing.
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i mean in that case why would i value your post XD , like ur just some random shmuck saying random wrong things. and i wouldn't be surprised since nurse had one of the lowest win rates when i saw statistics about winrates.
im not sure if you know what im talking about when i replied to someone specifically on a specific topic. Or you do know and you are not very smart. how are you inferring from "BHVR SAID HE HAS A LOW KILL COUNT" that he is not a strong and oppressive 1v1 killer? Both of these things can be true simultaneously.
The guy posted this and i quote "Looped him for 5 gens a couple of times. Yep he so oppressive that nearly every time out the few rare ones I seen, they always seem to lose the match by a 4 or 3 man escape. I only lost 3 matches to a trickster 😂, but he is a strong 1v1." he only lost 3 matches to a trickster yet i casually can show that i won a trickster game after replying to him. So in his entire DBD play time he has lost to 3 tricksters, and mocks the idea of trickster being strong 1v1. Not to mention he loops trickster for 5 gens couple of times. So not only the screenshot is in theme but also shows that what he is saying is a sample-size biased that i mention before. Definitely not random.
"So this 1 screenshot doesn't equal the average trickster"
Again it has nothing to do with an average Trickster and even so if you grade a characters strength based on what the average player can do then Nurse is by far the worst killer in game :smiley_face: a bad player can always get better.
As my original post and idea that i still stand behind that Trickster has map pressure issues that makes him a weak killer, his 1v1 is strong and oppressive. And homie don't jump in conversations you didn't read or dont understand.
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Throwing his knives does make you lose all his stacks; However, when you’re ready to down people with his knives you don’t need stacks anymore. Since they’re ranged attacks. He has so many by the time they’re injured you will certainly down them. As opposed to using maybe 20 just to injure them, then they become even sweatier or use the speed to reach a high wall. Or worse survivors come to body block knowing it consumes his knives! You simply need speed stacks to get first blood, close gaps, or push them out of those high wall loops. Even if you can’t he’s now fast enough to drop chase, and dash to wherever he needs to go. Using pallets on him will always give him speed to get them with just his bat. Plus the person you’re after will become Oblivious if they stun/blind you. So combined with the speed you can mind game a bit too.
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You’d be surprised. His problem is wasting all his knives just to down someone because he’s too god darn slow. Giving him that slight speed does mitigates that in the long run. His power is actually VERY situational. It isn’t meant to be spammed. That’s why his Main Event is useless. People haphazardly throw knives to hurt people not down them. You’re building up the power when it isn’t necessary. Whenever they’re hurt, rescuing, etc THEN you spam his 60 knives. Because it’ll more likely activate when you actually need it to.
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