Tunnel
Dear Devs,
please do something against these Killers, who tunnel me and the other Survivors... its so annoying.. i lose so many Rank Needles cause of those Killers.... it is really unfair...
Comments
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wow, first game after a day pause.... and first Killer tunnel me instant.... pls Devs change something
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I couldn't agree more with this!! The camping and tunneling is out of control. I feel its a way to cheat. I've been trying to lower my rank and its been so hard due to all the camping and tunneling they do. The Dev's don't realize when Killers do this it causes us to lose a pip. Its already hard as it is to defend yourself against a killer with pallets not going down and everything. It boggles my mind that they camp and tunnel because they have so many good perks and they can easily get you down without having to tunnel and camp you.
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It's true that camping and tunnelling are very strong these last weeks, don't know why.
The current DS should be basekit, and the perk DS would improve the stun or the duration of the timer
I may be a killer main, and I hated the old DS more than anything, but now killers feel that less and less people run DS, and play around it
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No, DS should never be basekit. Imagine a new 4 perk meta with basekit DS. That would be beyond OP.
And increasing the stun, when it's already multiplied by 4 Survivors?
Camping and tunneling are tactics. Same as genrushing, hiding, flashlight saves, and t-bagging to get the Killer's attention. You don't get to decide how Killers play simply because you dislike losing. 🤷♂️
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Man stop xD current DS isn't meta at all, it has none usefulness now, it just barely prevents tunnelling. You can't do anything that will develop the game, it is not a problem anymore, saying the opposite is nonsense
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Don't worry my friend, it seems to be a lower ranks discussion above. They can't understand how it would be OP to have a DS basekit.
However, I agree that even if these are "legit tactics" (tunnel and camping), they are also fun breaking tactics and don't encourage to earn new skills. I agree that something should be done against HEAVY camping and Heavy tunneling because it takes time to find a lobby, then if you are unlucky enough to get caught at the begining of the trial, being camped and tunneled makes DC'ing legit IMO, anyway you wouldn't get more than 3000 BP after this trial cuz you did legit nothing but got camped...
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I feel I'm included by what you're saying, I'm a rank 1 Nurse since 2020, I know what I'm talking about.
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Hey Nurse main. Nurse would handle DS basekit, but not normal killers. Nurse wouldn't care about basekit DS, because she is really good at slugging.
And based on your comments, you don't play killers. You may get carried by Nurse to rank 1, but that's all.
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Imagine FIVE second-chance perks (4 perks + Basekit DS) per Survivor, for 4 Survivors.
That's TWENTY second chances, per match. In matches that rarely go over 6-7 minutes.
If you can't see why that's OP, then I am going to call 'fibbage' on you being a rank 1 Nurse. Anyone looking at the whole picture can see why 4 perks plus DS would be OP, nevermind somehow adding a longer stun for each Survivor to screw a Killer with.
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Well, I thought once that current DS should also be basekit, but under certain conditions.
Just imagine that in a world that would happen: DS becomes basekit... We now know we could all equip BT to piss the killer off even more, Head on to hide in lockers, once killer knows you got DS active he will wait at the locker, but the surv can stun him... you know where I want to lead you? It could be an abused mechanic, so the tunneled surv could win a lot of time for his team to make gens while being tunneled without being scared of get caught too soon.
I think the toxicity of camping/tunneling would be transfered to the survivors to be as toxic as a camper/tunneler.
So yes we need something against camping and tunneling, but that's why the debate is opened about a long time now. We havent found a real solution. Also as the devs say camping and tunneling are legit strategies (what I absolutely disagree) I'm afraid it is not about to happen soon sadly.
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There's a huge difference between these things. A killer camping and tunneling is not fun for anyone involved - the target player doesn't get to play the game and the other survivors to get to either. BHVR's solution of "just do gens and make the killer lose" is boring. I want killer interaction, I want to play the game. Camping prevents interaction and actual gameplay. It's anti-fun and is essentially 1 player taking the game hostage.
I want to be clear here: the vast majority of people are not complaining about it because they lose. It's because they don't have nay fun and they get very few points. Even if a killer facecamps the first person they hook and survivors just stick on gens, he will easily get 10k+ points minimum while that survivor likely has less than 5k. How is that at all fair? What options did that survivor have, just run the killer for longer? They have literally no options to get themselves out of the situation.
Are you seriously trying to compare your small list of things to that? Hiding is a tactic; some people just suck at running and this is their option. There are tons of abilities and perks to get around it. Even if you don't successfully find them, hiding properly usually wastes a lot of time and helps the killer - it's like the joke of self-care being a killer perk. If they are hiding they aren't doing any objectives.
Flashlight saves...just have slight awareness and look in a safe direction. They are not an issue and 100% in your power to control.
Teabagging does not affect gameplay at all. Zero effect. That's all mental and is your problem to handle.
Genrushing...sigh. I play killer plenty and I know the frustration of gens going super fast. I think small tweaks to slow down the start of the game would be nice. However, I have a very hard time sympathizing with killers complaining about survivors literally doing their primary objective. They are supposed to do gens and do them as fast as they can to escape. And don't say campers are doing that. Their primary objective is to kill people, not stand by the hook doing nothing. Either way, as a killer you have options around this - there are a lot of perks or killers abilities slow things down.
I've won plenty of games where 3 gens popped shortly after the first chase ended. I've seen many killers with 0 kills still outscore every survivor. There is literally nothing survivors can do to completely take away the ability of the killer to play the game like camping/tunneling can for the target player. Nothing. Evn your terrifying "genrush" still lets you play. You may lose and lose fast, but you still get to play, not sit there for 2 mins, lose and get no points.
And for what it's worth, I think DS basekit is laughable and a horrible idea, but wouldn't mind a small basekit BT (like 2-3s). If you're not facecamping it's not an issue. That's very easy to wait out too, but gives the poor hooked survivor at least a small chance to not simply be farmed.
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No thanks. Tunneling is a necessary evil of this game. There are scenarios where killers absolutely need to tunnel to secure a kill. It needs to stay, I'm afraid.
And let's not make DS base-kit, we'll be playing with fire for the balance of this game. I'm down with making DS usable twice in one trial but making it unusable during the endgame when the last gen is done, but you get the point.
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Late game I can sometimes see some arguments, but if you do it early you're just a miserable person.
How do you justify literally ruining the experience for that one player? I'd argue it also does for the others since they have no killer interaction, but there's no argument against the target player.
I don't understand how the devs can see such a common thing that literally completely ruins the game experience for one person and be completely OK with that. "You played our game and someone else purposely made it an awful experience and it was 100% out of your control? Great, that's intended! Please keep playing our game for more chances to not get to play the game."
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In the end, it's really just a game, and there's nothing wrong with playing the game the way you want.
Is it unfun? Yeah, definitely. But as long as the tunneler enjoys it, I guess.
I don't know how we would stop tunneling without making anything worse.
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I'm not carried, I mastered her and know how to play her, it's not only point and blink for the win, and even with that, I manage survivors resources for them.
Anyway, go for the rescuer if you don't want to get DS'd. That's all. BT isn't a problem.
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There are enough strategies to counter this there's teamplay, perks, and map to counter this strategy. Yes it's boring but legitimate.
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Agreed DS shouldn't be base kit and no perk should be base kit.
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I couldn't agree more with all of this. There are so many perks that Killers have they they legit don't need to camp or tunnel someone.
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Well, I agree there is difference between those things. There is also big difference, if tunnel / camp is versus SWF or soloq. Camp versus soloq will usually result in everyone dead. Camp / tunnel versus SWF should not be issue, if you know how to deal with it.
I have seen a lot of survivors hiding somewhere and then crying, because I killed only survivor I could find. I had kill with 3-hooks, but I really didn't find anyone else. Survivors usually don't understand what is tunneling. Just because you kill someone fast, doesn't have to mean that it is tunneling, when that team don't try to protect that survivor at all.
When I play survivor I don't mind getting down, if I am not on dead hook just so killer don't kill someone else or at least take protective hits. If you mind campers, always use at least two players with BT in your team or just use it yourself all the time. In my experience face camping from start is super rare, I have experience it only few time and they were just trolling with Insidious. Killers usually camp when all gens are done, which in my opinion is understandable, because that hooked survivor is their only objective they can defend at that point.
But as I said there is big difference between soloq and SWF. SWF have no right to complain here, because there is lot of things they can do about it. Buff to soloq in my opinion is needed and survivors should get more information about others.
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Just be good enough at looping that the killer doesn't chase you. As a killer the way to winning isn't by 1v1'ing the strongest survivor on the team, its by removing the weakest link. Which I presume is why you are specifically being tunneled, the killer has judged you to be adequately below them in skill enough to be targeted out of the game.
If you are having problems with this I would suggest Kate's Windows of Opportunity which will give you 1) Beginner levels of map sense and understanding of pallet/window spawn locations. 2) Intermediate levels of chaining structures/pallets/windows together. and 3) At high skill levels it allows you to know what resources are left when playing solo queue.
When I play survivor solo I actually run a build of Bond, Windows, Alert, and Detective's Hunch. All the information allows you to make the correct choice at the correct moment, relieving the need for second chance perks entirely. Although, lowkey, Borrowed Time is super nice and sometimes I sub out Detective's for it if you like going for the super safe unhooks.
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Damn, I always wondered why some of my team-mates get tunneled so much and this is actually valid reason. I never thought of that...
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killers have no right to complain about survivors gen rushing when they tunnel through decisive, bt, and protection hits. Some killers even just say get better at the game, with this being said, killers should be good enough to go after good survivors or charge through strong loops. killers should get better.
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What if I tell you then most killers tunnel, because gens are done too fast?
So by your logic, survivors have no right to complain about killers tunneling when they gen rush.
If you think that killers should go after best survivor and commit even on strong loops, then you are really bad killer, because this is best way how to lose game. So you don't want killers to get better, because you want them to make bad decisions so you escape more.
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Ehh kindred basekit with no killer aura reading would be fair
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Going after good survivors at loops they can chain together or just a good structure will lead to the killer losing which is why people go after the weakest since 1 they need to go after their team mate and you can catch them in the open allowing an easier hit or even a down and 2 the hooked survivor isn't on a gen so your less likely to be gen rushed
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Yeah, why should killers get "bettter" when they can just play smart instead...
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Will Be ok only if nerf genrush too.
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Isn't playing smarter a form of getting better?
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Thing is, what most killers do is play smarter. Don't waste time on strong loops with stronger players, try find weak links and force better players into dead zones. What Joey suggested is get good enough, that you will be able to down even best survivor on strongest loop, which is just dumb, because that will never work and only lose you games.
One of the most important skills that killers need to develop is to know when to commit to chase and when is time to go for someone else. A lot of bad killers commit on chases they shouldn't, which waste a lot of time and then cry that survivors are gen rushing them.
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There is no single action, perk, or game plan more effective than immediately tunneling 1 survivor to death as early as possible in order to control gen speeds. The only remotely effective gen defense perks are ruin, and corrupt intervention. All others are so worthless you might as well use perks to end the 1v1 faster/more efficiently than bother using them.
So really, killers acting the way they do is a product of gen speeds, not the other way around as you are trying to suggest.
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I didn't read all comments as I usually would before I posted but it's after 2 am, so meh posting without reading.
I feel like this is the thing the developers need to address the MOST in-game, is the "toxic/cheap tactics" that killers and survivors in the game do, however, I highly doubt developers ever do anything because I believe they enjoy the chaos of it all.
The reason why killers tunnel(T), camp(C) and slug(S) is because the game is super survivor sided and players behind the killers want to win. The player has a choice in how they play, so there at fault for it but the developers are the main ones to blame. Devs need to close the gap between survivors and killers, until they do, TCS will never go away.
Survivors have 5 gens + open an exit, the killer has 4 survivors to attack, down, hook x 3, so 9 things to do per survivor and 36 in total. 1 gen can easily be done within the time a killer can get 1 hook, it's completely unbalanced. Survivors already have 4 vs. 1, developers need to either increase what survivors have to do or decrease what the killer has to do.
Let's be real though, survivors can be toxic and use cheap tactics as well, flashlights at pallets, deliberately setting off alerts by going back n forth over pallets or other methods, t-bagging, offerings to increase the distance between hooks + sabotaging + body blocking.
There appears to be a big divide between survivor players and killer players, one side argues for their side but doesn't seem like many argue for both sides, so highly doubt it will ever be resolved.
End of the day, all these cheap ways to play I listed in the post is part of the game as the ability to do them is there, so technically there not doing anything wrong but it does lessen the fun a lot, this is a big reason why people have a love/hate relationship with DBD I think, certainly is in my case.
What I would say to killers is you are not meant to win, deal with it and have fun trying. Although personally think 2 kills is a draw, 3+ kills is a win for the killer.
What I would say to survivor players is, you already have a 4-1 advantage, do you really need to use flashlights/flashbangs to survive or t-bag, no you don't and remember there is a real person behind the killer who looking to have fun as well.
Just my opinion but I don't think this thread or my post or any post will change anything, only the devs can fix this.
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