Any Ideas how to buff the Nightmare?
The title says it all.
Comments
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no more wake up from selfcare
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- change time to take them to fall asleep from 7 secs to 4 secs OR make it so that during those 7 seconds the survivor cant do any actions, except for dropping a pallet and jumping through windows. so no rescues, no healing no doing gens.
- make it so that self care failled skill checks cant wake you up
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Make him visible at all times.
Make him able to hit awake survivors.
He would still be able to put survivors to sleep
24 meter terror radius.
Heartbeat sounds when not asleep.
Lullaby when asleep, non directional, without sound increase if he's close to make it harder to read.
Make Freddy to "Blink" and disappear sporadically from the survivor's prospective when in dream mode, especially if the survivor stays asleep for an extended period of time.
Remove his Aura reading ability out of heartbeat.4 -
Definitely survivors should not be able to perform any actions during dream transition.
Make dream transition faster without addons.
Maybe a possibility to pull of survivors from the Hatch or when they are opening a gate?2 -
Skillchecks won't wake up a survivor if at least 1 survivor is awake, if all are asleep then 1 can wake up, but since Freddy can see aura's remove his aura reading and make it an add-on that way Freddy can't see people who are asleep and can't wake up and kill them easily because it's way too easy to wake up and with Freddy seeing auras and they can't wake up would make Freddy OP.
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Reduce dream transition time and allow Freddy to grab survivors off unhooking/hatch/exit gate while they are in the dream transition state.0
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@Runiver said:
Make him visible at all times.This completely changes the killer though. His whole thing is being invisible unless you are asleep. It'd be like if you took chainsaw away from Billy.
What I would like as a Freddy main:
1. Hitting a survivor with Dream Demon knocks them out of whatever action they were doing for 1-2 seconds. This lets you stop people from healing, doing gens, or totems right in your face since you can force them off and encourages them to treat transition like the start of a chase instead of just a free 7 seconds they can do anything they want. It'd also make range add-ons more valuable since you can use it as a sort of long range semi-defense to stop gens or totems.
2. Terror radius affecting perks should work with the lullaby, except anything that changes the size. Stuff like Unnerving only work in dream state, at which point it's not even worth having. However I don't think you should be able to shrink/grow his lullaby because that would be incredibly unfair. But anything that triggers due to TR should be affected by lullaby. This is also a slight buff to survivors against Freddy because their TR perks will work better too.
3. Make it easier to see in Dream World FOR EVERYONE. Freddy suffers most obviously because he is always there, but it sucks as survivor too because you can't see #########. It's impossible to find people. I can get decreasing visibility some, but remove the excess fog and tone down the grey filter.
4. Make it so only successful checks wake you up. I get the idea that if you purposely fail something that's technically good for the killer, but at the end of the day failing a gen or heal won't set you back that much and it's SO EASY because you just do an action and mash the button. I think that landing a normal skill check should wake you but register as a failed skill check (with notification too), while a great skill check will wake you without being treated as a fail (so no notification). It'd reward you for doing the skill check and you can't just spam the button to wake up. If you actually fail it then you are stuck in dream world. This would also make stuff like Overcharge and Unnerving actually usable and not completely counter-productive to Freddy's power.
5. While I main Freddy, I consider myself a survivor main overall and I do think he can be a bit dumb sometimes with how difficult it can be to get out of his "tunnel vision". One thing I would suggest would be to make it so that perks/items that reveal the killer work on Freddy in the real world. This include OoO, Kindred, Alert, Blood Amber, and anything else I missed. Another thing is that I think shining a flashlight on Freddy should "reveal" him for a few seconds in the real world, that way you can use it to kinda keep track of him (not his aura, just make him visible in the real world). That could also be a good counter to Pill Bottle (IMO one of his strongest add-ons) since it should keep him revealed if he puts you in transition. One last survivor side change I would make would be to his lullaby in that I would make the outer 4m edge directional. Considering killer's move at 4.6 m/s that means you would only hear the direction of the lullaby for a second. This rewards survivors that pay attention to the lullaby with a small heads up what direction he is coming. A very minor change but something that would allow more skillful evading of Freddy (as a survivor, it feels impossible to avoid getting slept by him in some areas of the game).These are changes I would like as both a Freddy killer and survivor main. I think it's fair to both sides, really my only gripe as Freddy is that people can do stuff right in my face and get away with it. If you took that away he becomes a lot more viable, then some QoL changes and he'd be in a good place.
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Several facts :
Hillbilly chainsaw doesn't prove to be an issue. Freddy power does.
Also, it's not comparable, since I do not ask for a removal of his power, since he can still put people to sleep.Being invisible is one of the reason he has that many issues. It turns the game into an action game since stealthing becomes really hard, it empathizes looping, bold rescues (since he's invisible), tunneling, sandbagging, amongst other stuff. That's why it needs to go.
That's also why I call it a "rework", not a simple "buff".Tho, a buff is more likely to happen, since devs like doing half-assed stuff rather than commit entirely, which never truly fix issues, but band-aim them.
Freddy will be no exception. They'll slightly change him, but in essence, he'll remain flawed and poorly though/made.0 -
The primary issues with Freddy is the most common perks counter him and it takes too long to bring survivors to the Dream Realm. The most commonly suggested solutions even in this thread is rebalance Self-Care or remove Self-Care from the list of failed skillchecks that wake up survivors. The long transition time is another issue and I feel as though by default the sleep transition time should be adjusted to 5 seconds instead of 7 seconds. I know it isn't a major change but it could make a difference just for initial testing.
If the suggested 5 seconds instead of 7 is agreed on his addons could be changed as well.
Sheep Block - Reduced Transition time from 0.5 to 1 (Common Addon)
Green Dress - Reduced Transition time from 0.5 to 1 (Uncommon Addon)
Cat Block - Reduced Transition time from 1.5 to 2 (Uncommon Addon)
Unicorn Block - Reduced Transition time from 1.5 to 2 (Rare Addon)
Class Photo - Dream Transition penalty increase changed from 2 to 1.5 (Very Rare Addon)Note - This is not the full effects of all the addons. I only listed the transition time of the addons because that's the only thing I suggested be changed.
Overall that would make him far less addon dependent than what he currently is. Slightly reduce the default sleep transition time and slightly increase the effect the weaker addons have. That way even starting out if you manage to get a Sheep Block which is a common addon on your bloodweb you now have a 4 second sleep transition.
There are a few quality of life changes he could receive like not being blinded by dream world fog or not attacking awake survivors priority over survivors in the dream realm but anyone else can cover that better than I could.
Anyways just my opinion but I'm hoping regardless of what BHVR does he gets a well deserved buff.
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@Runiver said:
@thesuicidefoxSeveral facts :
Hillbilly chainsaw doesn't prove to be an issue. Freddy power does.
Also, it's not comparable, since I do not ask for a removal of his power, since he can still put people to sleep.Being invisible is one of the reason he has that many issues. It turns the game into an action game since stealthing becomes really hard, it empathizes looping, bold rescues (since he's invisible), tunneling, sandbagging, amongst other stuff. That's why it needs to go.
That's also why I call it a "rework", not a simple "buff".Tho, a buff is more likely to happen, since devs like doing half-assed stuff rather than commit entirely, which never truly fix issues, but band-aim them.
Freddy will be no exception. They'll slightly change him, but in essence, he'll remain flawed and poorly though/made.If you have Premonition and Lightweight you can stealth Freddy all game. I've done it. I've had it done to me. That's why I'm saying make the other perks that reveal killer aura just work so there are more options against him. Also the directional lullaby at 20-24m and flashlight reveal thing. Both of which will help survivors to locate Freddy a bit better without completely gutting him and turning him into a Trapper clone with the ability to make you do gens slower, which BTW doesn't make a difference in the grand scheme of things anyway because it's very difficult to keep multiple survivors slept at the same time for it to mean anything. Being invisible in the real world is Freddy's real power. Sleeping people is just a way to move them from the real world to the dream world so he can attack them, and slowed action speed is just to discourage them from doing anything but trying to escape dream world. They aren't the crux of what his playstyle is about.
I don't want a rework. I like playing with and against Freddy as he is, I just want to be able to stop people from doing stuff in my face, and some QoL changes for both sides that make it less frustrating for everyone playing. That's all he needs to become viable, outside of universal changes that benefit killers (ie. nerfing survivor perks).
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Runiver said:
@thesuicidefoxSeveral facts :
Hillbilly chainsaw doesn't prove to be an issue. Freddy power does.
Also, it's not comparable, since I do not ask for a removal of his power, since he can still put people to sleep.Being invisible is one of the reason he has that many issues. It turns the game into an action game since stealthing becomes really hard, it empathizes looping, bold rescues (since he's invisible), tunneling, sandbagging, amongst other stuff. That's why it needs to go.
That's also why I call it a "rework", not a simple "buff".Tho, a buff is more likely to happen, since devs like doing half-assed stuff rather than commit entirely, which never truly fix issues, but band-aim them.
Freddy will be no exception. They'll slightly change him, but in essence, he'll remain flawed and poorly though/made.If you have Premonition and Lightweight you can stealth Freddy all game. I've done it. I've had it done to me. That's why I'm saying make the other perks that reveal killer aura just work so there are more options against him. Also the directional lullaby at 20-24m and flashlight reveal thing. Both of which will help survivors to locate Freddy a bit better without completely gutting him and turning him into a Trapper clone with the ability to make you do gens slower, which BTW doesn't make a difference in the grand scheme of things anyway because it's very difficult to keep multiple survivors slept at the same time for it to mean anything. Being invisible in the real world is Freddy's real power. Sleeping people is just a way to move them from the real world to the dream world so he can attack them, and slowed action speed is just to discourage them from doing anything but trying to escape dream world. They aren't the crux of what his playstyle is about.
I don't want a rework. I like playing with and against Freddy as he is, I just want to be able to stop people from doing stuff in my face, and some QoL changes for both sides that make it less frustrating for everyone playing. That's all he needs to become viable, outside of universal changes that benefit killers (ie. nerfing survivor perks).
Except no one picks Premonition solely to counter Freddy.
Sure, it can be eventually useful. Will people want to pick premo for that tho? doubt it.But yeah, you're free to just want buff for him as you may be one of the few that enjoys playing against Freddy, and with him.
Imo he just needs a full revamp, as his current state is just counter-productive, unfun and brings toxicity.0 -
@Runiver said:
Except no one picks Premonition solely to counter Freddy.
Sure, it can be eventually useful. Will people want to pick premo for that tho? doubt it.But yeah, you're free to just want buff for him as you may be one of the few that enjoys playing against Freddy, and with him.
Imo he just needs a full revamp, as his current state is just counter-productive, unfun and brings toxicity.You missed the point. I'm saying add more options like Premonition. Right now only Premonition works against Freddy, and you could say OoO does because it lights but that honestly doesn't mean squat if he can see your aura and you can't see his. Make more perks viable AGAINST him to counter his tactics, but like all other counterplay you have to be expecting it. Like if I think I might run into a Hag or Trapper I'll use Small Game to counter them, which also has the benefit of helping me find totems (which Prem helps you against literally every other killer and is also good against Myers and Wraith, also Billy/Nurse because it gives you a direction which can really make a difference in escaping those killers specifically).
What makes perks counterproductive to Freddy is that anything having to do with skill checks makes them harder or more guaranteed, which is why I say you should have to succeed in doing the skill check. Something like Unnerving + Distressing could do really well on Freddy if you had to hit good skill checks as it would mean it would actually be HARDER to wake up, not EASIER.
Not to mention the fact that when asleep Freddy is basically a Trapper without traps. But I feel like he's hard to get away from because it's so impossible to see in DW. I catch so many people just running into stuff that's basically pitch black and it's dumb when you can't see. If DW had less fog and greyscale EVERYONE could see better, which makes running from Freddy way less frustrating since you can you know, see what you are doing.
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- Freddy should be able to climb through a window even if an awake/transitioning survivor is also vaulting through it.
- His lunge should go through awake survivors and only "snap" to sleeping survivors.
- The interaction speed penalty should apply during the transition.
Another annoying things survivors can do is fail a healing skill check on a dying survivor to wake them up and let them crawl out the exit while Freddy watches helplessly...
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throws everything away into the garbage
Okay back to square one!0 -
@thesuicidefox said:
@Runiver said:
Except no one picks Premonition solely to counter Freddy.
Sure, it can be eventually useful. Will people want to pick premo for that tho? doubt it.But yeah, you're free to just want buff for him as you may be one of the few that enjoys playing against Freddy, and with him.
Imo he just needs a full revamp, as his current state is just counter-productive, unfun and brings toxicity.You missed the point. I'm saying add more options like Premonition. Right now only Premonition works against Freddy, and you could say OoO does because it lights but that honestly doesn't mean squat if he can see your aura and you can't see his. Make more perks viable AGAINST him to counter his tactics, but like all other counterplay you have to be expecting it. Like if I think I might run into a Hag or Trapper I'll use Small Game to counter them, which also has the benefit of helping me find totems (which Prem helps you against literally every other killer and is also good against Myers and Wraith, also Billy/Nurse because it gives you a direction which can really make a difference in escaping those killers specifically).
What makes perks counterproductive to Freddy is that anything having to do with skill checks makes them harder or more guaranteed, which is why I say you should have to succeed in doing the skill check. Something like Unnerving + Distressing could do really well on Freddy if you had to hit good skill checks as it would mean it would actually be HARDER to wake up, not EASIER.
Not to mention the fact that when asleep Freddy is basically a Trapper without traps. But I feel like he's hard to get away from because it's so impossible to see in DW. I catch so many people just running into stuff that's basically pitch black and it's dumb when you can't see. If DW had less fog and greyscale EVERYONE could see better, which makes running from Freddy way less frustrating since you can you know, see what you are doing.
relying on perks to counter a killer power is a bad idea in the first place.
Especially for new players (which is the main trouble about Freddy), that do not have that much of a choice when it comes to perks.His power should simply be better, and making him visible, while making him stronger, would make him better to deal with and play with, overall.
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The license holder would not allow Freddy to be visible to someone who is awake.
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Base sleep time should be reduced to 4 seconds. Keep addon values the same. This allows a very powerful combo of using the best addons to reduce sleep timer to 1 second. Gives power to the addons and it isn't every game. 4 second base is workable and not so bad.
Fix the dream blurring bullshit. Really isn't any point in handicapping sight for freddy when he can get his auras anyways. Super annoying. At least make it 30% more visible.
Make self care skillchecks not count towards waking up. Allow being able to hit an asleep survivor while in the process of being woken up by a non sleeping survivor, currently you will just miss a swing or lock on to the awake survivor.
Remove waking up from adrenaline, it's dumb.
Buff his reduced skillcheck addons, they currently do borderline nothing ( i've tested it over a HUNDRED games in KYF and it came back to ending up being around a 10% decrease in skillchecks with THE BEST addons for it )
Sleeping survivors should have their movement slowed by a small amount, basically just the hindered status effect. They should also not be able to see other survivors who are awake including with perks.
All these small changes should make freddy more viable.
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@Runiver said:
Make him visible at all times.
Make him able to hit awake survivors.
He would still be able to put survivors to sleep
24 meter terror radius.
Heartbeat sounds when not asleep.
Lullaby when asleep, non directional, without sound increase if he's close to make it harder to read.
Make Freddy to "Blink" and disappear sporadically from the survivor's prospective when in dream mode, especially if the survivor stays asleep for an extended period of time.
Remove his Aura reading ability out of heartbeat.that's not freddy though. it's a ######### wraith.
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@Zavri said:
@Runiver said:
Make him visible at all times.
Make him able to hit awake survivors.
He would still be able to put survivors to sleep
24 meter terror radius.
Heartbeat sounds when not asleep.
Lullaby when asleep, non directional, without sound increase if he's close to make it harder to read.
Make Freddy to "Blink" and disappear sporadically from the survivor's prospective when in dream mode, especially if the survivor stays asleep for an extended period of time.
Remove his Aura reading ability out of heartbeat.that's not freddy though. it's a ######### wraith.
Yeah, similarly, the Doctor is pretty much a hillbilly without the chainsaw and with the zapping and madness mecanics. Very similar, not sure what devs though about that.
Anyway, if you got another non-sense like that, feel free to post it. Especially since this rework has NO ressemblance whatsoever with the Wraith since :
There's no invisibility.
There's no uncloak.
There is chase mecanics.
There is a lullaby.
There is a disappearing killer to help in chases.
AMongst other stuff you probably didn't read/though.Whatever tho.
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I’m another rank 1 Freddy main with almost 1700 hours so here’s my thoughts. First, self care wake up gone. It’s ridiculously that the most used perk in the game and which I consider broken in itself totally counters him. Next, reduce the dream transition time at base and weaken those addons accordingly. He is just way, way too addon dependent. You could also say this for a bunch of killers as well. Finally, allow no actions during dream transition except for windows and pallets. This still allows them to get away but removes all of the cheese nonsense going on with waking survivors up right in front of you or breaking a totem in front of you while completely powerless to do anything. They could even add a slight delay on auras appearing when they leave his terror radius to reduce his tunnel gameplay and not make him too overbearing for low ranks since that’s always their main concern. If he got these other buffs I think this would be an okay thing.1
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Anything, just get rid of aura effect.0
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Freddy:
Survivors can't see each other if one survivor is in a different world. (Awake survivors can't see sleeping survivors and vice versa)
Remove Freddy's aura reading ability if a survivor is outside his terror radius and tremendously decrease the action penalty for survivors in his dream realm. (Basically survivors suffer a 10% action penalty when in the dream realm instead of 50%)
Survivors can't progress any actions when in the sleep transition. (This includes, opening the exit gates, repairing generators, healing, unhooking, and etc. Survivors can still use pallets, vaults, and lockers)
Skill checks no longer wake up survivors.
Done, Freddy is viable now
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What I'd like to see:
- When asleep, the survivor suffers from Blindness and Exhaustion.
- Make Fire Up baseline (+14% action speed) & 120% movement speed base.
- Remove skill check fail to wake up; add "Snap Out of It" check.
- Sleep adds stacking debuff - reducing action speed 4/8/12%.
- Survivors cannot leave map while asleep.
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