A fun rework for Hex: No One Escapes Death
Overview
I've spent a good portion of today thinking on NOED, its issues, and how they can be remedied and the perk made more fun & rewarding. I have made 3 iterations of a rework, and in this post I will explain the thought process I had throughout, why I think its a general improvement from the perk, and how I think it is more fun.
The Issues
Before I can talk about a solution, I need talk about what problems I think exist. A solution in search of a problem is pointless, so here is my list of issues I see with NOED.
- It is a frustrating to be the NOED dummy that gets downed before the hex is cleansed.
- It has no meaningful counterplay for the person that gets downed with it.
- It is an overall weak perk primarily used by players that do poorly during a trial, essentially rewarding them for nothing.
- The perk is overall weak if you are good at the game.
- When it is used by good players, its usually because they are pretending to be new until the exit gates are powered.
To summarize: The perk gives you more value if you do poorly than if you do well, leaving the survivors to feel cheated. IMO this is not healthy for the game. (Note that I do not consider doing all 5 bones to be reasonable counterplay, and included in my rework is a new way for NOED to spawn but with more counterplay.)
Why change is in order
One of the people I talked to told me: "I don't think NOED needs change, honestly"
My response was "I could argue the game functions as is and needs no new content or changes, as it is playable right now. But, that's not true because things can always be improved. So the question isn't really 'does it need to be changed?', it's: 'is it a good change?'" They changed their mind. "I think it is. Yes."
Dead by daylight is a game that receives constant updates, improvements can always be had. If NOED can be made a more fun perk, it should.
The changes in question
This section will talk about the roots of my idea, up to the final iteration.
Currently, NOED has a 4% Haste, which is very small and never why people select the perk. My idea is to make the haste the primary function of NOED, with Exposed being a secondary bonus. How do you do that? Stacks. Here is my first draft/iteration of the rework, made to illustrate the concept.
This first draft had each you got during the game contribute 1 token, up to 4. Each would give you a speed bonus, up to 16%. (Totally busted, I know. This changes in my next iteration.) 4 tokens would cause exposed. Besides the aforementioned speed bonus being insane, its not too difficult to get 4 hooks before endgame.
That takes me to my second iteration of the rework, which focuses on balance. https://imgur.com/PahCgMu
The first and most obvious change is having the token amount directly correlate with Haste, instead of having tokens being worth percentages. The second change I made was requiring each stack to be gained by hooking a survivor for the first time. This means you can't get your 4 stacks from 2 survivors. The third change I made is maybe the least obvious from a quick glance, but still very important. NOED now selects a specific dull totem to manifest itself in, and if that dull totem is broken before all generators are completed the Hex will remain inactive. My reasoning for adding with was making doing dull totems when you see them a reasonable task, as only cleansing 4 totems would always have NOED still light.
My third iteration focuses mainly on giving my rework a BHVR touch, part of that being reformatting and part of that being an important change. https://imgur.com/mpNk2vO
This version shifts back the haste values, having 4 Tokens exclusively make survivors exposed. This change takes inspiration from Devour Hope, and is to make the last stack feel more special and meaningful. The reformatting is not important to the rework so I will not cover it, but I did my best to imitate exactly how an official perk would look. (I used Devour Hope, Huntress's Lullaby, BBQ & Chili, etc. for reference.)
My fourth and final iteration is a very minor balance change of values to increase the gap between low and high tokens & their associated haste buffs. https://imgur.com/xZ9irjY
Summary
The above iterations were all made with a goal in mind: Rewarding killers above and beyond what the perk currently does for doing well, and rewarding killers that did poorly far less. This means Survivors will feel cheated far less often, and killers will reap better benefits from the perk for doing better during the trial. Everybody wins, and all issues I have listed before are reduced or eliminated.
Note to BHVR
Don't be afraid to change base mechanics or perks of the game.
Your game can ALWAYS be better.
Don't be afraid you would be pandering to your players by adding a feature they requested.
It's totally possible to just agree with what they're saying.
Don't be afraid to experiment reworks like this in the PTB.
That's what it's for.
And thank you for making this game!
Fair criticism is welcome!
Comments
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I'm just gonna counter arguement your main issues and how you didn't exactly fix or reduce all of them. (And I assume that was your plan)\
- It is a frustrating to be the NOED dummy that gets downed before the hex is cleansed.
This still happens. Nowhere did you mention anything about NOED just saying "HEY! YOU ALL EXPOSED!". And if it does work like this now... why?
- It has no meaningful counterplay for the person that gets downed with it.
And again, this still happens. And actually you have less counterplay now with increased % movement speed.
- It is an overall weak perk primarily used by players that do poorly during a trial, essentially rewarding them for nothing.
This was fixed. Good job! However - What do you mean by doing badly? Cause for me it's when the killer has like 1-3 hooks by the time 4 gens are done. Which usually means, the survivors could've and should've just done totems.
Note that I do not consider doing all 5 bones to be reasonable counterplay, and included in my rework is a new way for NOED to spawn but with more counterplay.Why is that? You counter it, by not making it appear. Or counter it by killing the hex after it appeared. Y'know, like a normal hex. You have 4 ways to counter totems
Oh and also
NOED now selects a specific dull totem to manifest itself in, and if that dull totem is broken before all generators are completed the Hex will remain inactive.Does the killer see the "NOED"? Will killer just be dissapointed when literally nothing happens because one survivor decided to do this one random totem that fortunately for them happenned to be NOED?
- The perk is overall weak if you are good at the game.
And this was also fixed technically.
- When it is used by good players, its usually because they are pretending to be new until the exit gates are powered.
... ? Okay now that's a first.
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This still happens. Nowhere did you mention anything about NOED just saying "HEY! YOU ALL EXPOSED!". And if it does work like this now... why?Survivors can know for a fact that if not everyone has been hooked, the exposed status cannot happen.
And again, this still happens. And actually you have less counterplay now with increased % movement speed.Its a total guess whether a killer has NOED. if you can first off see them going faster (Which is much easier with the haste buffs) you know it exists, and as I said before if you know somebody hasn't been hooked all game you know you are safe from being instantly downed.
This was fixed. Good job! However - What do you mean by doing badly? Cause for me it's when the killer has like 1-3 hooks by the time 4 gens are done. Which usually means, the survivors could've and should've just done totems.1-3 Hooks by endgame, unless you went against a comp team is IMO poor performance. I don't think expecting survivors to cleanse all 5 totems is reasonable, even if the killer made a lot of mistakes that costed time, especially on maps like Hawkins or red forest, and/or you are solo. (sorry about the wordy sentences)
Does the killer see the "NOED"? Will killer just be dissapointed when literally nothing happens because one survivor decided to do this one random totem that fortunately for them happenned to be NOED?If the associated dull totem was cleansed early, it would explode and make a loud noise notification as if any other hex had been cleansed. No sadge endgame surprises for the killer. Sorry I did not make this clearer.
And this was also fixed technically.Thank you for acknowledging this!
... ? Okay now that's a first.I suppose our experiences are different, but this has happened to me a handful of times, as well as I've done it as killer. If you want to see a video of it happening, just make a quick google search. Plenty of videos out there.
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- But if everyone has been hooked then it can happen... just as it is now. It CAN always be in play. And you're basically saying "don't get hooked" as counterplay.
- And again, this still applies. Just it's slightly harder to see. ^
- That's why there are 4 ways to destroy totems - Small Game, Detective's Hunch, Maps and newly added Counterforce. Everygame I'm running Counterforce, I manage to destroy all totems or 3-4 (cause the team destroys the rest).
- Alright.
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But if everyone has been hooked then it can happen... just as it is now. It CAN always be in play. And you're basically saying "don't get hooked" as counterplay.
As I said originally, if the problem isn't resolved its reduced. I wouldn't feel cheated being downed with NOED like I do now. The only real solution without explicitly telling the survivor they are exposed (which would make NOED useless) is to solve the frustration. I wouldn't feel as cheated getting downed with NOED knowing the killer hooked everybody at least once, compared to now when some guy hasn't gotten a down the entire game. It's like when you go against a good nurse- you can say "that guy is better than me, he earned it." The only real goal of this rework is to have it be more rewarding and less frustrating to both parties.
TLDR: You're right in that it can still happen, but the real problem is the feeling you get when it does. This is to reduce it.
And again, this still applies. Just it's slightly harder to see.
This is another problem you cant eliminate without ruining the perk, but as before you can reduce it. Here's some things you would be able to do as a survivor to predict NOED, and then why it matters:
- You can know for a fact you are not exposed if there are 1 or more survivors that haven't been hooked yet.
- You can notice the killers speed, unlike with current NOED where it is nearly impossible to tell
- Both the above matter because they can inform a decision like "should I take a hit?", which has a massive impact on the endgame.
That's why there are 4 ways to destroy totems - Small Game, Detective's Hunch, Maps and newly added Counterforce. Everygame I'm running Counterforce, I manage to destroy all totems or 3-4 (cause the team destroys the rest).
I think that's actually fine. Totems are a side objective and don't contribute to escaping most of the time, so if you bring something that is only useful every so often and it pays off, that's good. Survivors rarely bring perks like those into my games, and oftentimes when they do, I don't even have a hex for them to be cleansing. Maybe this is the sort of thing that would require testing to know for sure.
Alright.
Alright.
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"NOED now selects a specific dull totem to manifest itself in, and if that dull totem is broken before all generators are completed the Hex will remain inactive."
This would make the perk worthless. It would be better as a lit Hex totem, even if its effect didn't kick in until all gens were completed.
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Better why?
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You could at least defend it if you knew which one it was.
If it's a random predetermined dull totem, you'll have almost no chance of it not being cleansed.
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I see no reason it couldn't highlight red like active Hexs do. You misunderstand what I've written, the hex is always there, it just doesn't show itself to the survivors until endgame.
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i looked at the changes, the post and i just can't...
still seems as if the change are meant to change it because of the sole reason of "it only rewards bad killers" which in itself is stupid to say.
the changes themselves do seem interesting, but seem just to rework, at least to me, the perk entirely from what it was originally.
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That's not what the post is saying. In my TLDR I say: "The perk gives you more value if you do poorly than if you do well" which is not the same as saying "it only rewards bad killers." The rework is intended to reverse that and give you more value if you do well than if you do poorly.
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this still revolves around whether or not the killer played well or not. which means the better the killer played (hooked wise at least) the more he is rewarded. which plays on the argument "it rewards bad killers", which is why i said the changes just seemed to be based on that argument.
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NoED is fine. It does not need changing or altering, and it does not 'reward bad play'. If your fix is based on that fallacy, then you have started off on the wrong foot. You're trying to fix a problem that does not exist.
Again; NoED is fine.
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All this does is scream i don't want to do bones and am too lazy to bring counterforce small game detective's hunch or a map
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Leave my post. If you want to give feedback, I listen, and I hope BHVR does too. This is useless.
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I gave my feedback; NoED is fine.
Just because you dislike that feedback, does not mean we can't comment. It's a public forum and thus the public will comment. 🤷♂️
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I’ll be 100% honest.. my dyslexia would make reading all of those paragraphs take all day so in short NOED is an acceptable perk as is IMO.
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I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you just acknowledging what I've said? My argument was based on the premise that the perk had problems, and one problem I said exists was that the perk benefitted you more if you didn't play as well. You twisted this those words into "it only rewards bad killers", and said that I was stupid. When I point out that you've twisted my words, you reply with this. I'm unsure if that's supposed to be a counterargument, or an acknowledgment, or whatever.
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from now on I am only responding to comments that add to the discussion
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As survivor I think NOED should be basekit for killers so gens don't fly. And NOED is fine as it is. And we solo survivors can get basekit Kindred also.
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what im saying is
- it's still set on the premise that "it rewards bad killers" or those who don't play well. So, the reworks focus on putting that argument to rest to provide more bonuses to killers who play well.
- because of that, even though i do like the ideas presented, the idea just does not feel like a healthy choice.
- so it doesn't seem like the idea is based on any perk problems, but just another way of "nerfing killer".
just seems like the rework isn't wholeheartedly based on fixing the perk or making it better.
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This is only one of the premises, and it's still misrepresented because I don't think a killer that doesn't do well should be stuck with a useless perk slot. Even if you do very badly, getting a couple hooks during a trail is not remotely difficult. The rework does have a strong focus on rewarding killers who do better. You are making the jump in logic that this is an unhealthy choice without actually explaining what specifically is not good. It's definitely not another way of nerfing killer, whatever you're talking about. I play almost exclusively killer, and if anything this rework is a buff to NOED.
Side note: I am reconsidering the change I thought of for totems, but that would take testing to really know what to do.
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the main issue are the tokens. the focus point should be the exposed status effect, so the idea is already at a odd start.
the increasing haste helps with chases, but if your not at 4 stacks, it'll be annoying for surv, but how much would it really change?
the tokens make the perk situational at best, if it's not that hard to get each hook why have the tokens to be gained in such a way then?
i wouldn't really consider this a buff in an regard.
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This, seriously. This topic shows up way too often. Just do the friggin' bones. Why do people complain about NOED having "no counterplay" when it's literally a weaker version of Devour Hope? No one ever complains about Devour Hope being OP, why is that? I mean, after merely 3 hooks, you start instadowning everyone. NOED requires all generators to be done to achieve that effect.
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Nonono You have just missed the entire point of the post! Making haste the main focus of the rework is INTENTIONAL! Am I being trolled? Is this guy a troll?
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If you guys are going to attack the genuineness of my intentions of my post instead of my arguments, that can only be sanely interpreted as you:
A. Not reading my argument
B. Not understanding my argument
C. Not caring about my argument
I am losing my mind trying to understand how you think this is constructive criticism, this is my first and now last post on this forum. Only Milo and Seraphor have been reasonable, and they have my props. Goodbye.
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Oh I mean after reading the same old rehashed "arguments" for the xth time, it gets repetitive, when what would solve your NOED problems is doing bones. You have plenty of time to do them (NOED only activates when YOU complete all 5 generators required to power up the doors, not before, so you can take your sweet time to stroll around doing bones before working on gens) AAAAND there's literally 3 perks to help you find them easily (Small Game, that even includes a counter so you know when to stop searching, if others also do bones, Detective's Hunch, that shows nearby totems when a generator is complete, and since they reworked it you don't even need to be the one completing it, and that new Jill perk I forgot the name of that shows you totem auras and boost speed) and on top of that you have maps to help with the tracking.
So your main issue with NOED is you're too lazy to do bones. Heard it before, will hear it 20 more times over the course of the next 20 days. It's one of the topics that pops up the most around here. That and keys/moris.
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I know the haste is. I'm just saying that just ruins the point of the perk and shouldn't focus on it.
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I don't see how any of these would be an improvement for the Killers? Its really just a Nerf.
BHVR is serving you Totem cleanse perk reworks and new perks, and still none of you takes the time to cleanse totems. 🤣
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You're worse than cynical- you're cynical and wrong. You have immediately made assumptions about my post because you cant imagine genuine feedback for NOED being possible. I play exclusively killer- THIS ISNT A WHINE POST. You people ruin everything. My intentions are genuine.
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