General Discussions
General Discussions
Killer Balance at Low vs. High Skill Play
Alright, so everyone's well aware that at high-ranked play, skilled and coordinated survivors can absolutely curb-stomp all but the most godlike killers running Nurse or Hillbilly with meta perk builds. Everyone's on the same page here, and we know things probably aren't going to change there anytime soon. What I'm going to do is complain out the situation in low-ranked/low-skilled play. I normally play killer, so my survivor rank is 15. I'm not going up against very competent killers when I play. Yet despite this, the mere fact that killers have a higher base movement speed than survivors makes winning a chase next to impossible. I can try to juke and loop for all I'm worth, but in the end, these potato killers can just M1 me down rather quickly and facecamp me to death for the mistake of being spotted once.
I just think DBD has this really weird phenomenon where killers are woefully underpowered at the highest level of play and ridiculously overpowered at the lower levels, at least in certain respects. I don't exactly know what can be done about this, or even if anything should be done and I'm just overreacting. I should clarify that I haven't leveled up my survivors very much, and as meta perks go, I pretty much only have Self Care. But in my opinion, that shouldn't justify the situation. I shouldn't have to grind out hours and hours of this game just to reach a point where I'm not struggling to even make it to the gates being powered most of the time.
Feel free to reply in any way you see fit, from possible changes to refutations. I just want a better grasp on the situation.
Comments
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The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.4 -
@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.I just don't see that being viable unless you want to drive out casual survivors from the game entirely. If you balance DBD around the highest level of play, killers are going to be buffed/reworked across the board. That's going to turn the lower ranks into an absolute slaughterhouse for survivors who aren't sweating in a SWF group. I haven't been playing this game for a very long time, and I'm not an amazing killer, but I was casually 4-manning in all of my matches until I reached the tryhards. I just think that even without any of your proposed changes, killers are just too strong against lower-skilled survivors.
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@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.I just don't see that being viable unless you want to drive out casual survivors from the game entirely. If you balance DBD around the highest level of play, killers are going to be buffed/reworked across the board. That's going to turn the lower ranks into an absolute slaughterhouse for survivors who aren't sweating in a SWF group. I haven't been playing this game for a very long time, and I'm not an amazing killer, but I was casually 4-manning in all of my matches until I reached the tryhards. I just think that even without any of your proposed changes, killers are just too strong against lower-skilled survivors.
Than they need to implement mechanics that change the game depending on the rank you play.
For example something like: Lower ranks get more pallets, while high ranks get less.
Or something like that, with upcoming dedicated server and the option to do something against deranking, this could be done.3 -
The developers have proved with Freddy that they're basing their balance on low-mid ranks.
That's why they're making Legion, a killer which survivors should find fun facing as he can attack and injure survivors but won't be a danger as he cannot down survivors without extreme time investment.3 -
The problem is DBD isn't a game like Quake or Rainbow Six where both sides are practically even, both have extremely different roles and abilities here.
The killer is fast and can hit. Survivors are slow and can not. The killer dominates lower ranks with many new killers able to consistently 3k/4k right out of the gate. Survivors run and drop pallets behind them but it does little to slow the killer down. At the same time you have extremely timid survivors who hear the killers heartbeat and run immediately for the nearest locker wasting precious time that could be spent on generators.
Then something magical happens. Survivors learn they can run around a pallet area before using it. Right there the balance shifts. Even if they start out bad at looping, little by little they waste more of the killers time. Many loops are easy to pull off anyway requiring little skill on the survivors behalf, and probably by playing killer survivors learn of the bigger, nastier loops such as the ironworks window. So long as they get lucky with finding pallets they can really drag the game out.
The survivors now have the advantage and fresh faced killers begin tearing their hair out. How are they meant to win when they've chased the guy all game and he found pallet after pallet after pallet? in addition survivors become more confident which means more time spent on generators even if it's right in front of the killers face.
Now it's on the killer to adapt. They need to grind for the usual anti-looping perks however it is a slow process. More importantly on top of this they need to learn how to mindgame loops, but before they can mindgame a loop they need to first learn the loops themselves to understand how a survivor is going to try and run it. There is nothing most killers can actually do is the survivor is on the opposite side of an obstacle outside of nurse or spirit, so the killer can only rely on mind trickery to win this. It's also important for the killer to understand when to commit to a chase and when to let go, when to purse and when to switch targets, when to play offensively and when to play defensively.
The game starts out so simple for killer. You run, you hit. Survivors get screwed. Then the game switches in favour of survivor, you run in a circle, you drop a pallet, and now the killer needs to adapt real fast.
There are plenty of great killers out there who manage to consistently win at rank 1, however it does take more skill to be a top killer than a top survivor for the above reasons. I feel the dynamics of this game is where there's such a huge switch.
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@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.Basically this. +1
This is the crux of the issue, the devs balancing incorrectly.
And even rank 1 stats are scewed because they've made survivor pipping way too easy so there are a lot of survivors at rank 1 that shouldn't be.
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@se05239 said:
The developers have proved with Freddy that they're basing their balance on low-mid ranks.
That's why they're making Legion, a killer which survivors should find fun facing as he can attack and injure survivors but won't be a danger as he cannot down survivors without extreme time investment.The Legion is weak at all levels, especially high ranks. If that's supposed to be the response to the problem, people just aren't going to play Legion.
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@ThatDidact said:
@se05239 said:
The developers have proved with Freddy that they're basing their balance on low-mid ranks.
That's why they're making Legion, a killer which survivors should find fun facing as he can attack and injure survivors but won't be a danger as he cannot down survivors without extreme time investment.The Legion is weak at all levels, especially high ranks. If that's supposed to be the response to the problem, people just aren't going to play Legion.
He's gonna suffer thanks to them designing him with low rank in mind. That's my point.
Survivor fun is always more important than killer efficiency, in the eyes of Behavior. We'll never have killers like Nurse and Hillbilly again.0 -
You mean what happened with league, hearthstone and halo. Oh wait that didnt happen because heres the thing a game can balance itself without effecting lower ranked players. Low ranked killers will still bump into terrain chase badly and get juked easily. Lower ranked survivours can and will take advantage of that.ThatDidact said:@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.I just don't see that being viable unless you want to drive out casual survivors from the game entirely. If you balance DBD around the highest level of play, killers are going to be buffed/reworked across the board. That's going to turn the lower ranks into an absolute slaughterhouse for survivors who aren't sweating in a SWF group. I haven't been playing this game for a very long time, and I'm not an amazing killer, but I was casually 4-manning in all of my matches until I reached the tryhards. I just think that even without any of your proposed changes, killers are just too strong against lower-skilled survivors.
People tend to forget that killers as well as survivours play like crap at low ranks too.2 -
But killers are still stronger at low ranks. So they will catch the survivors eventually.Zarathos said:
You mean what happened with league, hearthstone and halo. Oh wait that didnt happen because heres the thing a game can balance itself without effecting lower ranked players. Low ranked killers will still bump into terrain chase badly and get juked easily. Lower ranked survivours can and will take advantage of that.ThatDidact said:@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.I just don't see that being viable unless you want to drive out casual survivors from the game entirely. If you balance DBD around the highest level of play, killers are going to be buffed/reworked across the board. That's going to turn the lower ranks into an absolute slaughterhouse for survivors who aren't sweating in a SWF group. I haven't been playing this game for a very long time, and I'm not an amazing killer, but I was casually 4-manning in all of my matches until I reached the tryhards. I just think that even without any of your proposed changes, killers are just too strong against lower-skilled survivors.
People tend to forget that killers as well as survivours play like crap at low ranks too.
Halo is a bad comparison because in Halo both sides are equal. In DBD they are not.
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Game needs to be more balanced at high ranks.
Getting face camped in the low ranks should hopefully provide enough motivation to improve your survivor skill.
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@Zarathos said:
ThatDidact said:@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.
I just don't see that being viable unless you want to drive out casual survivors from the game entirely. If you balance DBD around the highest level of play, killers are going to be buffed/reworked across the board. That's going to turn the lower ranks into an absolute slaughterhouse for survivors who aren't sweating in a SWF group. I haven't been playing this game for a very long time, and I'm not an amazing killer, but I was casually 4-manning in all of my matches until I reached the tryhards. I just think that even without any of your proposed changes, killers are just too strong against lower-skilled survivors.
You mean what happened with league, hearthstone and halo. Oh wait that didnt happen because heres the thing a game can balance itself without effecting lower ranked players. Low ranked killers will still bump into terrain chase badly and get juked easily. Lower ranked survivours can and will take advantage of that.
People tend to forget that killers as well as survivours play like crap at low ranks too.
That's the usual doublestandard.
Killer related stuff should get balanced around top notch, best player available.
Survivor related stuff should get balanced around trash teammates and bad player.0 -
About "trash teammates'
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@Zarathos said:
ThatDidact said:@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.
I just don't see that being viable unless you want to drive out casual survivors from the game entirely. If you balance DBD around the highest level of play, killers are going to be buffed/reworked across the board. That's going to turn the lower ranks into an absolute slaughterhouse for survivors who aren't sweating in a SWF group. I haven't been playing this game for a very long time, and I'm not an amazing killer, but I was casually 4-manning in all of my matches until I reached the tryhards. I just think that even without any of your proposed changes, killers are just too strong against lower-skilled survivors.
You mean what happened with league, hearthstone and halo. Oh wait that didnt happen because heres the thing a game can balance itself without effecting lower ranked players. Low ranked killers will still bump into terrain chase badly and get juked easily. Lower ranked survivours can and will take advantage of that.
People tend to forget that killers as well as survivours play like crap at low ranks too.
People tend to forget that because the base stats of the killer more than compensate for it. It doesn't take much skill to chase down and whack someone a couple of times when you move significantly faster than them. Survivors become overpowered because of coordination and teamwork compounding their own skill. That's what they rely on in high ranks. Lower skilled survivors are also uncoordinated, which leaves them sitting ducks for all but the most brain-dead killers. My inspiration for starting this topic was a match I had where a Huntress 4-manned me and some randoms without throwing a single hatchet and facecamping the entire time.
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@ThatDidact said:
@Zarathos said:
ThatDidact said:@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.
I just don't see that being viable unless you want to drive out casual survivors from the game entirely. If you balance DBD around the highest level of play, killers are going to be buffed/reworked across the board. That's going to turn the lower ranks into an absolute slaughterhouse for survivors who aren't sweating in a SWF group. I haven't been playing this game for a very long time, and I'm not an amazing killer, but I was casually 4-manning in all of my matches until I reached the tryhards. I just think that even without any of your proposed changes, killers are just too strong against lower-skilled survivors.
You mean what happened with league, hearthstone and halo. Oh wait that didnt happen because heres the thing a game can balance itself without effecting lower ranked players. Low ranked killers will still bump into terrain chase badly and get juked easily. Lower ranked survivours can and will take advantage of that.
People tend to forget that killers as well as survivours play like crap at low ranks too.
People tend to forget that because the base stats of the killer more than compensate for it. It doesn't take much skill to chase down and whack someone a couple of times when you move significantly faster than them. Survivors become overpowered because of coordination and teamwork compounding their own skill. That's what they rely on in high ranks. Lower skilled survivors are also uncoordinated, which leaves them sitting ducks for all but the most brain-dead killers. My inspiration for starting this topic was a match I had where a Huntress 4-manned me and some randoms without throwing a single hatchet and facecamping the entire time.
So, any arguments beside "all killer are skillless grunts"?
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@Wolf74 said:
@ThatDidact said:
@Zarathos said:
ThatDidact said:@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.
I just don't see that being viable unless you want to drive out casual survivors from the game entirely. If you balance DBD around the highest level of play, killers are going to be buffed/reworked across the board. That's going to turn the lower ranks into an absolute slaughterhouse for survivors who aren't sweating in a SWF group. I haven't been playing this game for a very long time, and I'm not an amazing killer, but I was casually 4-manning in all of my matches until I reached the tryhards. I just think that even without any of your proposed changes, killers are just too strong against lower-skilled survivors.
You mean what happened with league, hearthstone and halo. Oh wait that didnt happen because heres the thing a game can balance itself without effecting lower ranked players. Low ranked killers will still bump into terrain chase badly and get juked easily. Lower ranked survivours can and will take advantage of that.
People tend to forget that killers as well as survivours play like crap at low ranks too.
People tend to forget that because the base stats of the killer more than compensate for it. It doesn't take much skill to chase down and whack someone a couple of times when you move significantly faster than them. Survivors become overpowered because of coordination and teamwork compounding their own skill. That's what they rely on in high ranks. Lower skilled survivors are also uncoordinated, which leaves them sitting ducks for all but the most brain-dead killers. My inspiration for starting this topic was a match I had where a Huntress 4-manned me and some randoms without throwing a single hatchet and facecamping the entire time.
So, any arguments beside "all killer are skillless grunts"?
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that killers don't have to be good in order to beat survivors in low ranks with little effort.
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@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
So, any arguments beside "all killer are skillless grunts"?
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that killers don't have to be good in order to beat survivors in low ranks with little effort.
So you did not say that?
Wait… let me see…@ThatDidact said:
People tend to forget that because the base stats of the killer more than compensate for it. It doesn't take much skill to chase down and whack someone a couple of times when you move significantly faster than them. .... Lower skilled survivors are also uncoordinated, which leaves them sitting ducks for all but the most brain-dead killers.0 -
@Wolf74 said:
@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
So, any arguments beside "all killer are skillless grunts"?
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that killers don't have to be good in order to beat survivors in low ranks with little effort.
So you did not say that?
Wait… let me see…@ThatDidact said:
People tend to forget that because the base stats of the killer more than compensate for it. It doesn't take much skill to chase down and whack someone a couple of times when you move significantly faster than them. .... Lower skilled survivors are also uncoordinated, which leaves them sitting ducks for all but the most brain-dead killers.Exactly. That's exactly what I said. I don't understand why you're trying to derail the conversation by making it seem that I'm saying all killers are bad at the game. I'm a killer main. I'm just talking about game balance at low ranks.
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@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
So, any arguments beside "all killer are skillless grunts"?
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that killers don't have to be good in order to beat survivors in low ranks with little effort.
So you did not say that?
Wait… let me see…@ThatDidact said:
People tend to forget that because the base stats of the killer more than compensate for it. It doesn't take much skill to chase down and whack someone a couple of times when you move significantly faster than them. .... Lower skilled survivors are also uncoordinated, which leaves them sitting ducks for all but the most brain-dead killers.Exactly. That's exactly what I said. I don't understand why you're trying to derail the conversation by making it seem that I'm saying all killers are bad at the game. I'm a killer main. I'm just talking about game balance at low ranks.
If you don't want that debate, don't start it.
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@Wolf74 said:
@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
So, any arguments beside "all killer are skillless grunts"?
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that killers don't have to be good in order to beat survivors in low ranks with little effort.
So you did not say that?
Wait… let me see…@ThatDidact said:
People tend to forget that because the base stats of the killer more than compensate for it. It doesn't take much skill to chase down and whack someone a couple of times when you move significantly faster than them. .... Lower skilled survivors are also uncoordinated, which leaves them sitting ducks for all but the most brain-dead killers.Exactly. That's exactly what I said. I don't understand why you're trying to derail the conversation by making it seem that I'm saying all killers are bad at the game. I'm a killer main. I'm just talking about game balance at low ranks.
If you don't want that debate, don't start it.
I didn't. The only one participating in that debate is you.
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@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
So, any arguments beside "all killer are skillless grunts"?
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that killers don't have to be good in order to beat survivors in low ranks with little effort.
So you did not say that?
Wait… let me see…@ThatDidact said:
People tend to forget that because the base stats of the killer more than compensate for it. It doesn't take much skill to chase down and whack someone a couple of times when you move significantly faster than them. .... Lower skilled survivors are also uncoordinated, which leaves them sitting ducks for all but the most brain-dead killers.Exactly. That's exactly what I said. I don't understand why you're trying to derail the conversation by making it seem that I'm saying all killers are bad at the game. I'm a killer main. I'm just talking about game balance at low ranks.
If you don't want that debate, don't start it.
I didn't. The only one participating in that debate is you.
YOU said that it does not need skill to down someone and any non-brain-dead killer could do that.
Stick to your word or just say sorry and rephrase it.
You can't come here tell every killer to be skillless jerks and expect that the player just accept that general insult.0 -
@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.This IS NOT a strictly competitive based game, and the devs have made that so-clear.
We need to stop expecting a level of competitiveness that we see in DOTA or League - We need to compare it to other games with player-made leagues. The game isn't going to balance around your competitve desire, they want to also cater to people who play this afterwork or after they put their kids to bed, ontop of also trying to satisfy us no-life Rank 1s.
It's difficult. Cut them some slack.
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@Wolf74 said:
@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
So, any arguments beside "all killer are skillless grunts"?
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that killers don't have to be good in order to beat survivors in low ranks with little effort.
So you did not say that?
Wait… let me see…@ThatDidact said:
People tend to forget that because the base stats of the killer more than compensate for it. It doesn't take much skill to chase down and whack someone a couple of times when you move significantly faster than them. .... Lower skilled survivors are also uncoordinated, which leaves them sitting ducks for all but the most brain-dead killers.Exactly. That's exactly what I said. I don't understand why you're trying to derail the conversation by making it seem that I'm saying all killers are bad at the game. I'm a killer main. I'm just talking about game balance at low ranks.
If you don't want that debate, don't start it.
I didn't. The only one participating in that debate is you.
YOU said that it does not need skill to down someone and any non-brain-dead killer could do that.
Stick to your word or just say sorry and rephrase it.
You can't come here tell every killer to be skillless jerks and expect that the player just accept that general insult.Jesus Christ, I'm not telling anyone to do anything or insulting killers. The point I'm trying to make with this post isn't that killers suck, it's that there's an issue with balance against survivors in lower ranks that enables killers to do well without putting much effort into it. Once again, I'm a killer main. I have first-hand experience here. Before I reached about rank 9, I could casually waltz around the map and M1 survivors, not really paying much attention to what I was doing, and expect to 3k or 4k every time. That's a problem. I should not be able to do that well with the amount of effort and skill I was putting in. That's what this discussion is about.
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@Brady said:
@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.This IS NOT a strictly competitive based game, and the devs have made that so-clear.
There are 2 sides, one solo versus a team.
Both played by and against actual humans (aka PVP).
How can that be "non competitive"?
This is no coop game. Someone needs to lose for the other to win.
Even in the "balanced" game with 2 dead/2 escape, the dead "lost".0 -
@Wolf74 said:
@Brady said:
@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.This IS NOT a strictly competitive based game, and the devs have made that so-clear.
There are 2 sides, one solo versus a team.
Both played by and against actual humans (aka PVP).
How can that be "non competitive"?
This is no coop game. Someone needs to lose for the other to win.
Even in the "balanced" game with 2 dead/2 escape, the dead "lost".If the only requirement for a game to be considered "competitive" is that people can lose, then every single multiplayer game is competitive. Do you consider Uno to be a competitive game? How about Ultimate Chicken Horse? The point Brady was trying to make is that there are more people playing the game than people who sweat hard, memorize loops, run meta perks, etc., and the devs do and should acknowledge that.
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How can you consider UNO and UCH noncompetetive? Especially a friendship stresser like uno.ThatDidact said:@Wolf74 said:
@Brady said:
@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.This IS NOT a strictly competitive based game, and the devs have made that so-clear.
There are 2 sides, one solo versus a team.
Both played by and against actual humans (aka PVP).
How can that be "non competitive"?
This is no coop game. Someone needs to lose for the other to win.
Even in the "balanced" game with 2 dead/2 escape, the dead "lost".If the only requirement for a game to be considered "competitive" is that people can lose, than every single multiplayer game is competitive. Do you consider Uno to be a competitive game? How about Ultimate Chicken Horse? The point Brady was trying to make is that there are more people playing the game than people who sweat hard, memorize loops, run meta perks, etc., and the devs do and should acknowledge that.
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@Raptorrotas said:
ThatDidact said:@Wolf74 said:
@Brady said:
@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.
This IS NOT a strictly competitive based game, and the devs have made that so-clear.
There are 2 sides, one solo versus a team.
Both played by and against actual humans (aka PVP).
How can that be "non competitive"?
This is no coop game. Someone needs to lose for the other to win.
Even in the "balanced" game with 2 dead/2 escape, the dead "lost".
If the only requirement for a game to be considered "competitive" is that people can lose, than every single multiplayer game is competitive. Do you consider Uno to be a competitive game? How about Ultimate Chicken Horse? The point Brady was trying to make is that there are more people playing the game than people who sweat hard, memorize loops, run meta perks, etc., and the devs do and should acknowledge that.
How can you consider UNO and UCH noncompetetive? Especially a friendship stresser like uno.
Because they're designed to be party games between friends, not to be played at tournaments for cash prizes. Uno in particular relies on a crazy amount of randomness, which isn't optimal for demonstrations of skill, the hallmark of competitive games.
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I think you're misinterpreting "competitive"
http://changingminds.org/disciplines/game_design/types_game/games_competitive.htm
As long there are multiple factions competing for a win it is a competitive game, be it uno, uch, dbd, fortnite, any team sport, or rock paper scissors.1 -
@Raptorrotas said:
I think you're misinterpreting "competitive"http://changingminds.org/disciplines/game_design/types_game/games_competitive.htm
As long there are multiple factions competing for a win it is a competitive game, be it uno, uch, dbd, fortnite, any team sport, or rock paper scissors.
This may come as a bit of a shock to you, but words can have multiple definitions. In this context, we are referring to competitive as a classification between casual and competitive games (as in games that are played for fun or professionally). This is distinct from the simple classification acknowledging the existence of competition, which your link refers to. Not what we're talking about in this thread.
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