Hatch Stand Offs
Why cant the killer have to hit a skill check (Like DS) to pull the survivor out of the hatch instead of instagrab?
Comments
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@Arsoul said:
Why cant the killer have to hit a skill check (Like DS) to pull the survivor out of the hatch instead of instagrab?It is like DS but like DS 9/10 times they could hit that skill check and you can argue that it would still be broken. When a Survivor misses that skill check it grants them another chase, if a Killer misses this one they escape but if he gets it they get a kill. Two huge ultimatums compared to the Survivor's just a prolonged game.
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@HatCreature said:
@Arsoul said:
Why cant the killer have to hit a skill check (Like DS) to pull the survivor out of the hatch instead of instagrab?It is like DS but like DS 9/10 times they could hit that skill check and you can argue that it would still be broken. When a Survivor misses that skill check it grants them another chase, if a Killer misses this one they escape but if he gets it they get a kill. Two huge ultimatums compared to the Survivor's just a prolonged game.
True True, although, at least the survivor is more likely to attempt to jump into the hatch and not stand there for 10mins
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Because they have to rework the hatch jump entirely to account for the skill check.
Maybe make the killer hit you, go do a gen, or make the killer think you left?2 -
@Rebel_Raven said:
Because they have to rework the hatch jump entirely to account for the skill check.Maybe make the killer hit you, go do a gen, or make the killer think you left?
Perhaps instead of repeating the same thing in you see in every thread, perhaps we could look into solutions to the hatch stand off, we all know they happen, yes you can walk away but so many survivor don't.
This idea is to get them to jump in, escape or caught, I dont care, as long as the game has a conclusion.
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@Arsoul said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
Because they have to rework the hatch jump entirely to account for the skill check.Maybe make the killer hit you, go do a gen, or make the killer think you left?
Perhaps instead of repeating the same thing in you see in every thread, perhaps we could look into solutions to the hatch stand off, we all know they happen, yes you can walk away but so many survivor don't.
This idea is to get them to jump in, escape or caught, I dont care, as long as the game has a conclusion.
These things are repeated because they are our current solutions, imperfect as they are.
Yeah, tunnel vision is why they generally don't walk away. It's why killers don't often switch targets mid chase, and why survivors will be fixated on one particular gen.
I saw a killer mind game a survivor. can't remember who. They stood on the hatch, backed up, did a 360, then grabbed the survivor as they jumped in.
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Simple answer: By the time that skill check pops up, they would have already escaped. The animation is less than a second long.
The ball is in your court. You have the freedom to go do generators instead. If the killer leaves the hatch to go kill you, you can take a hit and beat them back to it. If they don't, you can just keep powering generators and open a gate. They can't guard two gates and the hatch at the same time.
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How about we killers be able to close the damn thing and no longer be able to grab you. Done!13
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The hatch is a really bad gameplay mechanic, so is two exits. Only one exit is necessary.
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@Incarnate said:
The hatch is a really bad gameplay mechanic, so is two exits. Only one exit is necessary.I gotta disagree. Two exits prevent a killer with NOED from just standing at the gate controls, or gate, swatting people down.
One exit is just a hell of a bottle neck.The hatch could have been done better, but without it, the 4th survivor, the last one left would have next to no chance to survive. The killer would not have much of a challenge.
Push comes to shove, a survivor will just hide, and troll the killer since they feel cornered otherwise.
But hey, you can grab people jumping into the hatch, prevent 2 generators from getting done, or slug the last 2. That should take care of most encounters.8 -
@Rebel_Raven said:
@Incarnate said:
The hatch is a really bad gameplay mechanic, so is two exits. Only one exit is necessary.I gotta disagree. Two exits prevent a killer with NOED from just standing at the gate controls, or gate, swatting people down.
One exit is just a hell of a bottle neck.The hatch could have been done better, but without it, the 4th survivor, the last one left would have next to no chance to survive. The killer would not have much of a challenge.
Push comes to shove, a survivor will just hide, and troll the killer since they feel cornered otherwise.
But hey, you can grab people jumping into the hatch, prevent 2 generators from getting done, or slug the last 2. That should take care of most encounters.Yeah? The thing is though NOED, is ONLY necessary because there are two exits.
Two exits is also a problem because the killer cannot be at two places at once, and with two exits it's way more likely everyone escapes if no one at that point has been sacrificed. The two exits is also a problem.Still, the hatch is a really bad gameplay mechanic, especially also because the only way to avoid it is what you just explained, and it sucks to be slugged. In regards to grabbing, that requires you to be able to actually grab, which is why there are stand offs in the first place.
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I must disagree once again.Incarnate said:@Rebel_Raven said:
@Incarnate said:
The hatch is a really bad gameplay mechanic, so is two exits. Only one exit is necessary.I gotta disagree. Two exits prevent a killer with NOED from just standing at the gate controls, or gate, swatting people down.
One exit is just a hell of a bottle neck.The hatch could have been done better, but without it, the 4th survivor, the last one left would have next to no chance to survive. The killer would not have much of a challenge.
Push comes to shove, a survivor will just hide, and troll the killer since they feel cornered otherwise.
But hey, you can grab people jumping into the hatch, prevent 2 generators from getting done, or slug the last 2. That should take care of most encounters.Yeah? The thing is though NOED, is ONLY necessary because there are two exits.
Two exits is also a problem because the killer cannot be at two places at once, and with two exits it's way more likely everyone escapes if no one at that point has been sacrificed. The two exits is also a problem.Still, the hatch is a really bad gameplay mechanic, especially also because the only way to avoid it is what you just explained, and it sucks to be slugged. In regards to grabbing, that requires you to be able to actually grab, which is why there are stand offs in the first place.
If you will, consider your average chase.
You hit a survivor. They get a speed boost. You wipe your blade, then resume the chase.
How far do they usually get?
That distance from the escape point is basically a guaranteed escape.
Now lets factor in the second necessary hit to down a healthy survivor which means catching up, and hitting them again.
That distance from the escape point is still pretty guaranteed. They flop, and if that doesn't get them out, the crawling while you wipe your blade again just might.
This also applies to the hatch, basically.
And them there's dead hard which can extend the chase, or DS which can also make a longer chase.
Or a survivor using Lithe or Balanced Landing. I've even seen some use sprint burst as a poor mans dead hard.
That is a large area of safety around the escape points.
NOED would still be incredibly useful even with one exit.
With just one exit a killer can basically hold the game hostage by standing at the lever. Especially with NOED to help prevent the gate from opening which is like an even worse hatch standoff.
Infact the killer can just go to the controls and use that as their only objective to guard.
Even with current hatch mechanics it will not open until there is 1 survivor left alive (or they use a key) so unless 3 get killed the hatch will not open.
The hatch is far from perfect, I agree, but it's almost always the killers fault it opens.
Being slugged does suck. If it keeps happening I'm pretty sure there are 1 or 2 perks that let you fight slugging.
As for the grab, you just gotta fake them out. Easier said than done, sure, but possible.2 -
@Rebel_Raven said:
Incarnate said:@Rebel_Raven said:
@Incarnate said:
The hatch is a really bad gameplay mechanic, so is two exits. Only one exit is necessary.
I gotta disagree. Two exits prevent a killer with NOED from just standing at the gate controls, or gate, swatting people down.
One exit is just a hell of a bottle neck.
The hatch could have been done better, but without it, the 4th survivor, the last one left would have next to no chance to survive. The killer would not have much of a challenge.
Push comes to shove, a survivor will just hide, and troll the killer since they feel cornered otherwise.
But hey, you can grab people jumping into the hatch, prevent 2 generators from getting done, or slug the last 2. That should take care of most encounters.
Yeah? The thing is though NOED, is ONLY necessary because there are two exits.
Two exits is also a problem because the killer cannot be at two places at once, and with two exits it's way more likely everyone escapes if no one at that point has been sacrificed. The two exits is also a problem.
Still, the hatch is a really bad gameplay mechanic, especially also because the only way to avoid it is what you just explained, and it sucks to be slugged. In regards to grabbing, that requires you to be able to actually grab, which is why there are stand offs in the first place.
I must disagree once again.
If you will, consider your average chase.
You hit a survivor. They get a speed boost. You wipe your blade, then resume the chase.
How far do they usually get?
That distance from the escape point is basically a guaranteed escape.
Now lets factor in the second necessary hit to down a healthy survivor which means catching up, and hitting them again.
That distance from the escape point is still pretty guaranteed. They flop, and if that doesn't get them out, the crawling while you wipe your blade again just might.This also applies to the hatch, basically.
And them there's dead hard which can extend the chase, or DS which can also make a longer chase.
Or a survivor using Lithe or Balanced Landing. I've even seen some use sprint burst as a poor mans dead hard.That is a large area of safety around the escape points.
NOED would still be incredibly useful even with one exit.
With just one exit a killer can basically hold the game hostage by standing at the lever. Especially with NOED to help prevent the gate from opening which is like an even worse hatch standoff.
Infact the killer can just go to the controls and use that as their only objective to guard.
Even with current hatch mechanics it will not open until there is 1 survivor left alive (or they use a key) so unless 3 get killed the hatch will not open.The hatch is far from perfect, I agree, but it's almost always the killers fault it opens.
Being slugged does suck. If it keeps happening I'm pretty sure there are 1 or 2 perks that let you fight slugging.
As for the grab, you just gotta fake them out. Easier said than done, sure, but possible.
Considering the average survival rate, that is approximately two survivors out four, with two exits and a hatch
So with one exit and one hatch that could still be two as both can take a hit before going down and can block a hit from each, and even if one goes down the other one can still escape. With two exits and a hatch, it's more than likely everyone will escape if everyone is still standing at the time the gates are opened. WHY? Well as I said the killer can only be at one place at one time, so if the killer chasing one or two to one exit then the other rest will just go to the other exit - basically at this point the killer could just as well accept the loss.If they removed one exit I wouldn't mind they made NOED not usable for those matches where there is only one exit.
They could easily fix the lever issue, have more than one lever, one at the control panel near the exit and another one further away from there (a random location), this way the killer cannot hold the game hostage.
There is only two, and one is a onetime use and the other makes you be always injured.
The hatch won't even spawn unless certain requirements are met:
The Hatch will become visible ("spawn") whenever the number of fully repaired generators exceeds the number of living Survivors by 1So two exits and a hatch, is a problem. One exit and a hatch, isn't a problem, only if NOED is in play, otherwise it can easily be made so it won't be a problem.
Say there was one exit and one hatch, two control levers where only one needs to be pulled/activated, one will be at the control panel near the exit the other one at a random location further away from the exit. Say the killer decides to hard camp at the exits when all generators are repaired and there are still two survivors left. Guess what? That would've been a really bad move to hard camp the exit, because now both victims will now become survivors, because both can endure at least one hit, where the killer is not big enough to block the entire gate, and the killer won't be fast enough to strike twice to down a victim, only one who could somehow apply exposes status on at least one could ensure a down, otherwise both would survive. Lets take another example with the same parameters, so the killer has succesfully found both victims near the other control panel and the exit has been opened, and the victims both begins to run and the killer gives chase. Here both of the victims take a hit for each other (blocking the killers hit) while continuing to run - the killer might be successfull in downing one but highly unlikely if they do this strategy. Only if the killer could apply exposed status would the killer be sure of a down, otherwise both would also escape.
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Simple hatch standoff solution to save 20 minutes.
Killer: hit them and let them leave. You get bp, its INSTANTLY over and you can go to the next game.
Survivor: if they camp it, go do gens. You get bp for those still btw. -OR- just jump, and if they grab you, its INSTANTLY over and you can go to the next game.
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@Arsoul said:
Why cant the killer have to hit a skill check (Like DS) to pull the survivor out of the hatch instead of instagrab?He already has to hit M1 at the correct time, there is no time for a skillcheck or will the survivor hover in the air until the skillchecks goes through?
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My issue with the hatch is the follow:
It's free for every survivor. It takes no skill to jump the hatch.
If the killer just would get the ability to instadown and mori one survivor when all gens are powered, we all call it unfair (see all the discussion around NOED ect.) But the hatch don't even need a perkslot and it offers no counterplay, only unfavorable standoffs...
I would rather be able to close the hatch as a killer or "cleanse" the hatch as a survivor for the escape (or just bring a key
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@Carpemortum said:
Simple hatch standoff solution to save 20 minutes.Killer: hit them and let them leave. You get bp, its INSTANTLY over and you can go to the next game.
Survivor: if they camp it, go do gens. You get bp for those still btw. -OR- just jump, and if they grab you, its INSTANTLY over and you can go to the next game.
Copy and paste answer yet again. I see you missed the entire point saying that to many people DONT go and do the generators etc. This would speed up the game for all and free the killer up to make a new lobby.
But, copy and paste answers seem to be the way to go to get more posts0 -
@Carpemortum said:
Simple hatch standoff solution to save 20 minutes.Killer: hit them and let them leave. You get bp, its INSTANTLY over and you can go to the next game.
Survivor: if they camp it, go do gens. You get bp for those still btw. -OR- just jump, and if they grab you, its INSTANTLY over and you can go to the next game.
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@CornChip said:
@Carpemortum said:
Simple hatch standoff solution to save 20 minutes.Killer: hit them and let them leave. You get bp, its INSTANTLY over and you can go to the next game.
Survivor: if they camp it, go do gens. You get bp for those still btw. -OR- just jump, and if they grab you, its INSTANTLY over and you can go to the next game.
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@Arsoul said:
@CornChip said:
@Carpemortum said:
Simple hatch standoff solution to save 20 minutes.Killer: hit them and let them leave. You get bp, its INSTANTLY over and you can go to the next game.
Survivor: if they camp it, go do gens. You get bp for those still btw. -OR- just jump, and if they grab you, its INSTANTLY over and you can go to the next game.
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@Arsoul said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
Because they have to rework the hatch jump entirely to account for the skill check.Maybe make the killer hit you, go do a gen, or make the killer think you left?
Perhaps instead of repeating the same thing in you see in every thread, perhaps we could look into solutions to the hatch stand off, we all know they happen, yes you can walk away but so many survivor don't.
This idea is to get them to jump in, escape or caught, I dont care, as long as the game has a conclusion.
Making the Hatch invisible to the killer isn't a ######### balanced solution.
It's the same topic, different day.1 -
But anyways... the killer gameplay is supposed to be completely different from the survivor gameplay... this is supposed to encourage players to play both sides... if you're looking for advice-----> the survivor owns the hatch theres nothing that the killer can do just wait for them to hit you and jump in............. unless it's a tombstone Myers then play super stealthy and wait for your best opportunity
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Or just get rid of the hatch entirely and have one exit gate randomly open when 1 survivor is left. Or get rid of the hatch and DON'T have an exit open and the last survivor will get killed like they should because they didn't finish the gens.
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Here is my thoughts: No survivors should be able to stand in the face of a killer and feel safe.
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Ever heard of doing gens or even accepting your death? You're not entitled to the Hatch. Sorry that you can't have your free escape. Maybe you should've done better while your allies were still alive.
The hatch closing idea from the first version of the PTB for patch 2.0.0 was good. Killer stomps on the Hatch to close it and Survivor has repair a gen to reopen it. I would just add a base Left Behind effect to the Survivor so they aren't bored to death holding M1 and I would let the Killer permanently read the Survivor's aura at an unlimited range after X seconds of not doing gens so the Survivor can't get salty and take the game hostage.
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Yet again? I've said this twice. And it's a very viable, easy solution if you're not a stubborn ass.Arsoul said:@Carpemortum said:
Simple hatch standoff solution to save 20 minutes.Killer: hit them and let them leave. You get bp, its INSTANTLY over and you can go to the next game.
Survivor: if they camp it, go do gens. You get bp for those still btw. -OR- just jump, and if they grab you, its INSTANTLY over and you can go to the next game.
Copy and paste answer yet again. I see you missed the entire point saying that to many people DONT go and do the generators etc. This would speed up the game for all and free the killer up to make a new lobby.
But, copy and paste answers seem to be the way to go to get more posts0 -
im sorry but are you a survivor main, cause this sound really salty to the point salt is literally coming out of my computer
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Ive seen old ptb where they tried the hatch closing mechanic and I think there's a solution to it if both the killer and survivor are on the hatch for over a minute (the standoff) then the killer can close the hatch in a animation that takes 10 seconds (plenty of time for a survivor to get away and hide) while it might extend the game once the hatch closes it can be reopend in a ten second animation if the killer is not near the hatch when it starts But they get a notification on it giving a chance to catch you (note insidious will not work here)0
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@SnakeSound222 said:
Ever heard of doing gens or even accepting your death? You're not entitled to the Hatch. Sorry that you can't have your free escape. Maybe you should've done better while your allies were still alive.
The hatch closing idea from the first version of the PTB for patch 2.0.0 was good. Killer stomps on the Hatch to close it and Survivor has repair a gen to reopen it. I would just add a base Left Behind effect to the Survivor so they aren't bored to death holding M1 and I would let the Killer permanently read the Survivor's aura at an unlimited range after X seconds of not doing gens so the Survivor can't get salty and take the game hostage.
Your not entitled to 4 kills either.
Nothing wrong with the hatch closing thing, I just want SOMETHING to be done. Survivors need a chance to escape but it doesnt need to be handed to them0 -
ok, what if we reverse it then.
The survivor, if the killer grabs them, must hit an extremely hard skill check to escape.
Perhaps there is no cooldown on killer attacks within 10 meters of the hatch, so you can double hit and pick up survivor if they are just going to stand there and not jump.
Just need something to speed up the escape or death0 -
Hatch standoffs would be balanced if the Survivor animation of getting into the hatch was as slow as the Killer wiping their weapon.1
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@Arsoul your fighting an uphill battle while carrying 10 tons on your back. The mechanic is so bad. If you propose to change it survivors say it's unfair and that they deserve the hatch because "it's their team mates fault there dead". Killers want it comepletely removed or a way to shut it. It's unlikely it will be changed as it's a 4:1 ratio, 80% of thel playerbase (Maybe a little less) that refuses that it should be changed in any way. It desperately needs a change in the killers favour, people seem to forget the killer is the one that's stronger and should win in a 1v1 90% of the time.0
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@MasonHugsCats said:
@Arsoul your fighting an uphill battle while carrying 10 tons on your back. The mechanic is so bad. If you propose to change it survivors say it's unfair and that they deserve the hatch because "it's their team mates fault there dead". Killers want it comepletely removed or a way to shut it. It's unlikely it will be changed as it's a 4:1 ratio, 80% of thel playerbase (Maybe a little less) that refuses that it should be changed in any way. It desperately needs a change in the killers favour, people seem to forget the killer is the one that's stronger and should win in a 1v1 90% of the time.I have no issue with it changing in the killers favor, I just want a chance for the survivor or an end in a timely manner. Dead or Escape.
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I think the solution should be that if a survivor is standing still, after a certain amount of time the killer can just grab them. Make it 30 seconds like the crows, and maybe make it within 4 meters of the hatch. It’ll make the survivors decision more tense, and will give the killers a mechanic they should be able to simply do anyway.
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@Peanits said:
They can't guard two gates and the hatch at the same time.This is what's wrong with the endgame, in general. Not just hatch standoffs
2 exits, then 3 if only 1 person is left in the map, including if everyone went out a gate.
Just... why?
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@SmokePotion said:
@Peanits said:
They can't guard two gates and the hatch at the same time.This is what's wrong with the endgame, in general. Not just hatch standoffs
2 exits, then 3 if only 1 person is left in the map, including if everyone went out a gate.
Just... why?
There's more than one gate because the killer would just stand in front of the controls every time and prevent anyone from ever leaving, and there would be nothing the survivors could do about it.
The hatch is there when only one survivors is alive because the killer could easily patrol between the two gates (even just LOS is enough), giving the survivor no chance to ever escape. Same goes for repairing generators. The second the killer notices that a generator progressed, they're going to search the area and find them, making it a death sentence. If the last survivor has no chance, they're just going to hide until they do. Sitting around for half an hour while they wait for an opportunity that'll never come isn't fun for anybody.
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@Peanits said:
@SmokePotion said:
@Peanits said:
They can't guard two gates and the hatch at the same time.This is what's wrong with the endgame, in general. Not just hatch standoffs
2 exits, then 3 if only 1 person is left in the map, including if everyone went out a gate.
Just... why?
There's more than one gate because the killer would just stand in front of the controls every time and prevent anyone from ever leaving, and there would be nothing the survivors could do about it.
The hatch is there when only one survivors is alive because the killer could easily patrol between the two gates (even just LOS is enough), giving the survivor no chance to ever escape. Same goes for repairing generators. The second the killer notices that a generator progressed, they're going to search the area and find them, making it a death sentence. If the last survivor has no chance, they're just going to hide until they do. Sitting around for half an hour while they wait for an opportunity that'll never come isn't fun for anybody.
So where's the killer failsafe? Please don't say rancor as the hatch doesn't require a perk.
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One gate only and then all killers would just play Billy/Bubba and camp the gate either the control console itself or the opening.
If you want the hatch removed then get rid of all aura reading perks, all notification perks will be turned off for the killer. Then the survivor will just go hide since it's certain death trying to do a gen even with haste effect.
Now throw in a high mobility killer like billy, Nurse, Spirit, Wraith or a Hag trapping everywhere and it's free kill this way.
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@MhhBurgers said:
@Peanits said:
@SmokePotion said:
@Peanits said:
They can't guard two gates and the hatch at the same time.This is what's wrong with the endgame, in general. Not just hatch standoffs
2 exits, then 3 if only 1 person is left in the map, including if everyone went out a gate.
Just... why?
There's more than one gate because the killer would just stand in front of the controls every time and prevent anyone from ever leaving, and there would be nothing the survivors could do about it.
The hatch is there when only one survivors is alive because the killer could easily patrol between the two gates (even just LOS is enough), giving the survivor no chance to ever escape. Same goes for repairing generators. The second the killer notices that a generator progressed, they're going to search the area and find them, making it a death sentence. If the last survivor has no chance, they're just going to hide until they do. Sitting around for half an hour while they wait for an opportunity that'll never come isn't fun for anybody.
So where's the killer failsafe? Please don't say rancor as the hatch doesn't require a perk.
That is for both sides. Without the hatch, you'll both be sitting there playing the hide and seek world championships for half an hour or more. If you'd rather do that than accept your win and move on to the next game, to each their own. But I would rather just get it over with. One survivor escaping does not change the fact that you've won.
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@Peanits said:
@MhhBurgers said:
@Peanits said:
@SmokePotion said:
@Peanits said:
They can't guard two gates and the hatch at the same time.This is what's wrong with the endgame, in general. Not just hatch standoffs
2 exits, then 3 if only 1 person is left in the map, including if everyone went out a gate.
Just... why?
There's more than one gate because the killer would just stand in front of the controls every time and prevent anyone from ever leaving, and there would be nothing the survivors could do about it.
The hatch is there when only one survivors is alive because the killer could easily patrol between the two gates (even just LOS is enough), giving the survivor no chance to ever escape. Same goes for repairing generators. The second the killer notices that a generator progressed, they're going to search the area and find them, making it a death sentence. If the last survivor has no chance, they're just going to hide until they do. Sitting around for half an hour while they wait for an opportunity that'll never come isn't fun for anybody.
So where's the killer failsafe? Please don't say rancor as the hatch doesn't require a perk.
That is for both sides. Without the hatch, you'll both be sitting there playing the hide and seek world championships for half an hour or more. If you'd rather do that than accept your win and move on to the next game, to each their own. But I would rather just get it over with. One survivor escaping does not change the fact that you've won.
I'm okay with the hatch in theory but I think killers should have an equivalent like:
If 4 survivors are alive by the time the gates are powered you get a free mori and exposed effect on all survivors. The Exposed effect gets removed as soon as 1 survivor is downed and the downed survivor can only be mori'd an not picked up, so you don't get to have any shenannigans with remember me/bloodwarden.
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@MhhBurgers said:
I'm okay with the hatch in theory but I think killers should have an equivalent like:
If 4 survivors are alive by the time the gates are powered you get a free mori and exposed effect on all survivors. The Exposed effect gets removed as soon as 1 survivor is downed and the downed survivor can only be mori'd an not picked up, so you don't get to have any shenannigans with remember me/bloodwarden.
Well you can already get that from NOED if it's still up, Rancor, mori's your use as an offering etc.
The thing with the hatch is it's only going to help those 4 survivors if they've got a key since otherwise it only comes into use when one is left.
For the last person if both exit gates are opened the hatch should stay closed unless they have a key and they have 30 seconds to use it before the hatch vanishes. That prevents one of the more frustrating things where someone just hides and waits for 3 to leave.
The only exception would be if it's a reverse bear trap and don't give me the killer earned that kill nonsense since all the killer has to do is chase the survivor away from any boxes.Throw in Amanda's Letter and Secret and that survivor is dead.
But otherwise once both gates are opened it should only ever open if it's with a key or in the reverse bear trap scenario and they're the ;ast survivor.
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@powerbats said:
@MhhBurgers said:
I'm okay with the hatch in theory but I think killers should have an equivalent like:
If 4 survivors are alive by the time the gates are powered you get a free mori and exposed effect on all survivors. The Exposed effect gets removed as soon as 1 survivor is downed and the downed survivor can only be mori'd an not picked up, so you don't get to have any shenannigans with remember me/bloodwarden.
Well you can already get that from NOED if it's still up, Rancor, mori's your use as an offering etc.
Which is imbalanced since survivors don't need any perks for the hatch. If I want a pitty-kill I have to perk up or mori up.
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I never bother with a standoff, could've had one and probably would've won it as Doctor...but it's better to get my smack and move on.
If I get to a Hatch as they jump and I grab em great, if not it's whatever. Otherwise I'll look for the Survivor until I either down em,or the escape.
Until something major changes I'm jus not gonna waste minutes standing around to "mindgame" the 50/50 on if I get em or not
The exception to contesting the Hatch is if I can Trapper or Hag trap the area and get em, either trapped or NOED em...0 -
@powerbats said:
@MhhBurgers said:
I'm okay with the hatch in theory but I think killers should have an equivalent like:
If 4 survivors are alive by the time the gates are powered you get a free mori and exposed effect on all survivors. The Exposed effect gets removed as soon as 1 survivor is downed and the downed survivor can only be mori'd an not picked up, so you don't get to have any shenannigans with remember me/bloodwarden.
Well you can already get that from NOED if it's still up, Rancor, mori's your use as an offering etc.
The thing with the hatch is it's only going to help those 4 survivors if they've got a key since otherwise it only comes into use when one is left.
For the last person if both exit gates are opened the hatch should stay closed unless they have a key and they have 30 seconds to use it before the hatch vanishes. That prevents one of the more frustrating things where someone just hides and waits for 3 to leave.
The only exception would be if it's a reverse bear trap and don't give me the killer earned that kill nonsense since all the killer has to do is chase the survivor away from any boxes.Throw in Amanda's Letter and Secret and that survivor is dead.
But otherwise once both gates are opened it should only ever open if it's with a key or in the reverse bear trap scenario and they're the ;ast survivor.
To stop the fourth person from sticking around and searching for the hatch, all that has to be done is remove the bonus hatch points after anyone has escaped through an exit gate. Or remove the hatch bonus points entirely: if three survivors die, give the fourth survivor bonus points just for being the final one alive. Then, if the final survivor escapes through the hatch they get the same amount of points as if they'd escaped through the exit gates.
Either of those options would be an easy solution to a very frustrating problem.
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Generally, if I find myself stuck at a stalemate, I'll try to bait them into poorly making the escape. If it works, cool, if not, oh well.
That being said, I don't think it's acceptable to have things such that neither person is incentivized to react first if they both want the win. Sure, you could argue that killers aren't entitled to 4k and that survivors aren't entitled to the Hatch with no strings attached, and you could say that it's stupid to waste time waiting for the win so you can stroke your ego when you could just concede and jump into another game. But the fact that in the context of an individual trial, there is nothing built-in to prevent or even mitigate a stand-off just seems like bad design.
This is just a cheap band-aid fix until they can properly adjust things, but I like the idea of making Survivors exposed while the Hatch is open and removing the ability to grab a Survivor out of it (perhaps the Hatch could have a magic deus ex power to stun the Killer with a burst of light/energy when the Survivor tries to jump in so that there is an actual explanation for why the Killer can't grab the Survivor mid-jump). That way, both players are still being proactive near the Hatch and just waiting for the opponent to make a move (like how it currently is) is a much worse idea. If a Killer reaches the Hatch first, the Survivor is more incentivized to mindgame with a Generator knowing that the Exposed status makes it more tempting for the Killer to risk leaving the Hatch unguarded.
Is it the ideal solution? Probably not, but at least it's now a proper race to the Hatch rather than a game of Chicken.0 -
@Peanits said:
@SmokePotion said:
@Peanits said:
They can't guard two gates and the hatch at the same time.This is what's wrong with the endgame, in general. Not just hatch standoffs
2 exits, then 3 if only 1 person is left in the map, including if everyone went out a gate.
Just... why?
There's more than one gate because the killer would just stand in front of the controls every time and prevent anyone from ever leaving, and there would be nothing the survivors could do about it.
The hatch is there when only one survivors is alive because the killer could easily patrol between the two gates (even just LOS is enough), giving the survivor no chance to ever escape. Same goes for repairing generators. The second the killer notices that a generator progressed, they're going to search the area and find them, making it a death sentence. If the last survivor has no chance, they're just going to hide until they do. Sitting around for half an hour while they wait for an opportunity that'll never come isn't fun for anybody.
I'm going to break this down into 2 different parts.
1: "There's more than one gate because the killer would just stand in front of the controls every time and prevent anyone from ever leaving, and there would be nothing the survivors could do about it."
Yes, it would give them a way to stop the game for a moment. Thing is, the killer can't just stand in front of the gate like you said. Here's why: The killer will hang up his hook, or chase, or otherwise leave the immediate area of the gate. The gate, if you don't remember, does not reset progress if you stop. This means you can (and i have) rotated people on a single exit, open it, and escape. even with heavy gate camps. In fact, this would be much more fun and engaging then the free escape it pretty much is now.
2: The hatch is there when only one survivors is alive because the killer could easily patrol between the two gates (even just LOS is enough), giving the survivor no chance to ever escape
You do understand that it takes 2 hits to down a survivor on MOST killers, right? So if you get hit going for the gate, you can walk right out. In fact, you get a nice speed buff, and the killer gets slowed. That hatch has absolutely no need to be there when the gates are opened. Especially if people have escaped through the gates already.
There can be an arguement made for the hatch under a handful of situations. In solo survivor it can be hard to get even 2 gens done if your teammates can't manage a chase longer then 20 seconds.
However, exit gates open, and 3 escapes is not a time there needs to be a hatch.
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Killers win if 3 die? Wheres the reward for that?
Another point: why does the 4th survivor still need the hatch if an exit is already open and up to 3 of his buddies already escaped?
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