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Is 99%ing the Exit Gates to prevent EGC a bad design oversight?
I've seen a lot of people talking about this the last few weeks. Back during the PTB for End Game Collapse, huge amounts of people made the observation that 99%ing the Exit Gates prevented the EGC from ever happening until the remaining Survivors were all ready to leave. AFAIK the devs never responded or commented on this.
My understanding of EGC is that it was implemented for two reasons.
1) In response to Survivors refusing to leave for long periods of time until the Killer walked over to chase them all out.
2) In response to Survivors having zero pressure and unlimited time to save any remaining survivors, or wait around at the hatch refusing to leave until the Killer got near.
My question is: Doesn't 99%ing the Exit Gates completely cancel out the whole point of having EGC? It's been standard Survivor policy for a long time now that you never open the Exit Gates until everyone is safe, nearby or the last guy is running towards the gate away from the killer. Only then are the Exit Gates opened, and EGC only lasts for the 10 seconds it takes for the last Survivors to leave. Being that most players are Survivors I get a sad feeling that most people don't really care about this and think this is totally fine. But still I ask. What do you think about this? Is it okay? Should it be changed? (Maybe EGC starts immediately when the final generator is powered, and it lasts an extra 60 seconds or something to compensate?)
Comments
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We didn't you bring up that killers can just open the exit gate, thus starting EGC?
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Killer can open a gate and force EGC but yes, I always thought 99 was bs.
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Must of slipped the op's mind.
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Doing so kind of invalidates Blood warden though, especially in a swf. The Survivors can just be like 'Did anyone open the gate? No? Ok, the Killer probably has Blood warden'.
Personally, I don't know if EGC just instantly starting is the best idea. It'd be better then what we have currently but I dunno, just doesn't seem like the best solution. Something has to be done though. Perhaps instead, progress on the gates would regress at a considerable rate. This would mean that it would be basically impossible to 99 the gate. It's either open it or let it regress. What do you think of that?
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The thing is, EGC is a bad design by itself. And I know I will stand alone on this one, but I would love if the EGC was completely removed from the game and things returned to what they originally were.
It is ludicrous to think that it is even a necessary mechanic to begin with. I personally have never seen a game being held hostage by survivors, even on my most devastating defeats as killer before EGC was introduced. And even if the problem truly was as common as perceived to be, which I sincerely doubt, was it that difficult to come up with a different solution?
Perhaps making it a highly bannable offense and hire some people to deal with those specific reports, or something. Not adding a timer at the end of the game. It does nothing other than encouraging scummy tactics and rushed actions. 99%ing Gates is merely another consequence.
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Yeah pretty sure you will be the only one feeling this way. EGC was great for the health of the game and is much easier then hiring a team of people to go through players reports. It adds pressure and an actual end game to the game.
As for the actual thread I don't think 99%ing the gates is a bad design oversight. The killer can open the gate at any time and trigger the EGC. Also as certain killers not fully opening the gate can work against you. Can't tell you how many times I got kills from trapping the 99ed gate lever and downing the survivors that ran to open it.
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Well, I've stood alone on this topic since I first voiced my opinion about it, so it is not that big of an issue.
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I'll admit I actually miss the game before endgame collapse
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YES!
I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE!
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Killers can 99 too, like Myers, so what?
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I hadn't thought about this...
It sounds interesting.
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As a killer main, I would prefer it if there was a slow exit switch decay. Like 1% every 5 or 10 seconds or something small.
Beyond that, i think its balanced. There are a few reasons why 99%ing the exit gate isn't the same as opening it:
1) the survivor still has to take the time to stop at the switch. This can foil the escape if the killer is chasing you
2) other escapes can't be secured. Meaning, if the survivors are just hanging out waiting for the rest of the group, they don't have the security of being able to easily leave if the killer shows up, so they either have to open the gate (see point #1) and start the EGC before other survivors are ready, or leave the gate and likely take a hit
3) there are several killer perks that trigger only when the gates open. Waiting to open the gate may be exactly what the killer wants, cause those perks tend to be less effective if survivors open the gate immediately (at least IMHO)
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I have seen games held hostage by survivors back before EGC. It wasn’t a big issue but it did happen.
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Well, I didn't.
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ECG was created to prevent survivors from holding the game hostage and it does that just fine. Killers can now open the gates and start the ECG to activate Bloodwarden, should they please. The only 2 bullshit related to ECG was how the killer had to wait 30 seconds by the hatch that was opened with a key to prevent the ECG from starting.
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It used to be 30 seconds. So if the killer closed it, ECG would start and all gens were blocked. It was a bad deal for the killer depending on the number of remaining survivors on the match. So you would have to camp the hatch until it closed. That basically gave 30 seconds of uninterrupted progress to the remaining survivors in the match. It was reduced to 10 seconds or is scheduled to change I think. So one less of an issue.
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Honestly, let Killers regress the exit switches like he can gens.
If he finds a 99% switch, let him start that sucker regressing to foil the plans of 1-Frame Freddy and his switch-tapping to open the gates.
You know; the same 1 frame used to gentap that somehow, magically applies pressure in a chase by pausing for 1/60th of a second to remove a regressing generator. (Yes; I hate 1-frame gentapping and think the Devs idea that 'tapping in a chase is dangerous' is insanely out of touch with reality. Why do you ask?)
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No
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EGC was put in because of hatch stand offs and survivors hiding around the map after opening the doors - both causing the game to not end for way too long. Currently EGC does exactly was it is supposed to - prevents hatch stand offs, forces survivors to leave instead of wasting time hiding after doors have been opened.
EGC rewarding the killer with sacrifices has made killers think it should be a tool to help them get kills when that is not what it's there for. At this point I think they should remove the sacrifice points and instead once timer runs out any survivors left get 0 escape points, killers get 0 sacrifice points - no one wins or loses.
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It would be cool if it regressed after a bit, just to add some excitement.
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Killer can open the gate. It's fine as is.
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Given that the Killer can open the gate to start the EGC, that kinda negates both issues regarding wasting time.
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The second one is incorrect.
Killers were never allowed to open the gate, now they are. Solely on the fact that it prevents survivors refusing to leave.
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It happened, it wasn't fun.
I was actually able to get up and make a sandwich while having a staring contest with the survivor
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A hatch standoff, then? Those I've indeed experienced, but I never bothered that much with them.
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actually it's ever happened to me that sometimes survivor is salty and didn't want to leave, and leaving me completely checking area 1 by 1, so yeah EGC prevent this from happening
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The killer is now able to damage exit gates, causing them to regress at a speed of 2.5% a second.
This is how I would fix this thing if it were to be fixed.
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All those "just open the gates"-people are quite the hypocrites.
Survivors dont need the hatch or that the gates activate when the hatch is manually closed, "Just walk to the killer and give up"
Backlash to this post will prove my point.
Also, yes 99'ing the gates is intentionally done by survivors to just not care about the EGC or Bloodwarden. You dont have to care about time limit on getting out if you open the door in a second and can leave immediatly.
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I wish EGC started as soon as the last gen popped, but the timer would be longer. It'd make the endgame feel a lot more tense for both sides.
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To answer your question, obviously it is bad design. But yeah, as everyone pointed out, the killer can initiate it, which I often do, gimme that 500 BP, baby! And if they are ready they are ready, if not... Well, rest in peace.
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Well EGC is already killer sided as it is. 99 the exit gates balance it out a little.
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It's not an oversight. They tested regression internally and then opted for the current version.
And it's good design. The purpose of egc is to ensure the game ends. Not to give extra pressure to the killer (nor to the survivors), as some have come to believe, even if the stated goals of the mechanic have always been clear.
Both sides have agency over the decision to start the timer. Both parties have to make a cost-opportunity assessment when opting for either alternative. The mechanic fulfills its purpose precisely.
99'ing gate can be as detrimental for the survivors by delaying a rushed escape, just as it could be beneficial to the killer by encouraging altruism that wouldn't have taken place if survivors were pressured to leave by the timer.
Bloodwarden interaction and alikes are issues that pertain to the perk(s), not the egc. And they should be addressed at perk level, not otherwise.
Removing gate-99'ing is simply to demand a straight-up killer buff that would push the endgame mechanic away from its purpose. Not toward it.
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Considering they thought about the Exit Gates regressing when nobody is on them, but decided not to implement it when bringen EGC into the game - no, clearly not an oversight.
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I'm not sure I follow the hypocrisy part in an asymmetrical game where each side has different objectives.
It's like if i said:
Killers are so hypocritical about wanting exhaustion to pause when running yet they are always faster than survivors. Some of them even have powers that make them go even faster when ever they want.
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Its simply tactic. Why should survivor limit himself by starting EGC? Mostly then happens camping situation - killer has one prey and knows that within 1min will come comrades to help him.
And as stated earlier you can begin it yourself if you wish.
There is ni flow in this matter. Simple tactic.
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Yeah, cause blood warden would be so much fun to deal with if you couldn’t 99 the gate.
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Just make the gates slowly regress over time. Solved
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What if it took only 10 seconds to open the exit gates, but it reset to 0 if you let go ?
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EGC exists only to end the match, it has no other reason. It isn't a mechanic that benefits neither killers or survivors.
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