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Can we consider the Franklin's Demise change, a buff now ?
Context
What has changed? From deleting an item after 90 seconds, it will deplete an item's charges over 90 seconds.
Why consider it a buff now? Well, this certain PTB update.
Damn, bro, Plaque can no longer infect breakable walls... Sadge
Anyway...
Discussion
- So, with this change, hitting a survivor with a brown medkit and leaving the medkit on the ground for a few seconds will remove the medkit's ability to fully heal
- Hitting a survivor with a brown medkit & a styptic/syringe + 8 charge addon, if a survivor were to heal once, and get hit again, it will deplete the item in mere seconds, making the styptic/syringe useless.
- Counters perks that reduce the depletion rate of items, Streetwise & Botany come to mind since on the ground, it will remove the charges at a normal speed instead of taking these perks into consideration.
- Purple Medkit + 16 charge addon + 12 charge addon will be depleted in 90 seconds. The stronger the item, the more impact will be felt.
- Purple Flashlights + Green Battery + Yellow addon that reduces charges. Depleted in 90 seconds.
- Let's compare the old vs new Franklin's. Once you get hit, you knew you had 90 charges to pick up your item with the charges you had. Now? The more you leave it on the ground, the more charges will be depleted. This change added a sense of urgency to picking up your item before the charges disappear.
- Of course, after the update, keys will no longer be able to open the hatch once the charges are depleted.
- Here's another buff you might miss regarding keys, if you were to hit the key user with the old franklin's you had to camp the item or make sure it's not picked up after 90 seconds. Now? You're making sure that every time you hit them, the charges on the key will be fully depleted, aka, you can play the game normally and the charges will be depleted progressively. Also yes, I've had killers who camped my keys whenever I brought them with the old Franklin's...
- And to top, it all off here's another buff to franklin's regarding keys, when someone brings a key with the amber addon & they plan to use 99% of the charges to leave the 1% to open the hatch, getting hit, will deplete the key pretty much instantly, making it unable to open the hatch. Not to mention the fact that if you hit them at the start, they will not get much value of the addon because you'll deplete its charges.
If I missed any buffs, do comment down below.
If you are thinking that the basic attack requirement must be removed, you are nuts. Franklin's is quite a powerful perk as it is & I don't want killers running it 24/7 whenever 2 or more survivors bing items... Would make completing challenges like depleting x item a pain. Oh, you use 90% of the item but got hit with Franklin's? Damn bro... Good luck next match because you weren't the one who depleted the item. Not to mention, killers will not run this perk to counter items, they'll just run it be absolute A-holes about it.
You all cried when this perk was changed from delete items to deplete cause you were all focused on keys & nothing else, but refused to accept the fact that it was a nerf to keys as well, to be more precise, keys will the blood amber addon & those that allowed to see your teammates. The charges will be depleted making them have less value, aka if the charges got depleted, you couldn't use them as much for the purpose you brought them in.
Comments
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It’s a buff unless you used it to destroy items out of spite
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It always was a buff.
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Rip my anniversary items from last year.
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Always has been, I don't remember seeing anyone making a thread discussing that it's a buff, not a nerf.
All I've seen are people crying about it being a nerf, hence why I made this thread.
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For me this has always been a buff.
Even when at first it was no longer able to counter a key I considered this change a good buff to the perk. Like you said it helps in many situations now and that far better than befor. I rather like to counter Medkits, Maps, Toolboxes and Flashlights and leave keys alone.
Yes, keys are frustrating to play against. However I face far more flashlights and other items. As such a perk that counter those other items is more helpful than a perk that counters a key. I now bring Franklys along when I face a lobby with 3 items and get my value out of this perk. much better then just playing item shuffle M1 man for the survivors.
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The perk is way better, imo. I can see it working really well against a team full of medkits.
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Unless you're a killer where a majority of hits you can hit with your power & not with a basic attack.
Blight comes to mind, Demo & Huntress also.
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That's a good point. Another perk like Surge then, I guess. Decent on M1 killers.
Unlike Surge, I can actually see why Franklin's is an M1 perk.
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Wouldn't mind Surge being an attack that can be triggered by all attacks except for ranged attacks, Shred from Demo, Hatchets, Pyramid's Trails, etc.
Blight's Lethal Rush could trigger it for example.
However, I'd like this to keep this discussion for another topic.
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It just depends on the way you look at it really. Like, the item slowly depleting is a buff, but the fact it won't be destroyed also means that survivors won't necessarily have to waste time to get it back. They can just leave it there and grab it at the end of the game.
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Still think it should loose the basic attack requirement I mean it’s already useable by Nurse,Spirit, and Hag. Some of the best killers in the game. Would it really be that bad now if it worked with Hillbilly’s chainsaw?
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You have your answer at the end of my post.
You can do a basic attack as Hillbilly also, not just chainsaw every survivor you see.
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It’s an unnecessary hinderance. Where it only works if M2s make the bad choice and M1 when it’s ideal they use their M2. As a Hillbilly I see a survivor my instinct say go for a chainsaw. And it feels dumb that Franklins only works on M2s if they make often the bad choice.
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It was already a buff before. Depleting a single charge renders brown medkit (the most common kind) useless. Same if a yellow one spent 30 seconds on the ground.
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The point of Franklin's is to not let survivors use their items
If a survivor leaves their item on the ground because "Meh, it's not going to disappear" Franklin did his job well (plus, they still have to recover an empty item if they want to keep it, which is the definition of wasting time)
With old franklin you had to rush to get your item back, but if you managed to do so Franklin did nothing since you still had all your charges
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It's a lateral change to take T-virus vaccines not affected by it. It does have the downside of not countering flash bangs though. I wouldn't call it a nerf or a buff.
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Do you not view it as a buff solely because it doesn't affect vaccines & flashbangs?
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Now that keys can't open hatch with no charges in my opinion it's literally no different in effect than it was before. Remove items from the game or remove their charges and make them worthless, all the same to a Hag that hates items lol
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Now that keys can't open hatch with no charges in my opinion it's literally no different in effect than it was before
?
You don't consider anything I've said, here, a buff?
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Nope, to me it's a lateral move, like side stepping instead of moving forward. I guess you could consider it a buff in the sense that if they get a chance to pick up the item again they'll get less use out of it but going back for it while injured is already a very very risky move and a smart survivor will abandon it. I can't begin to tell you how many free downs I've gotten from greedy players coming back almost immediately for their items.
When I'm playing survivor I bring a med kit for backup for Inner Strength. If a killer is running Franklin's I abandon my item and focus on objective or rescues because I know that I'm probably not gonna get use out of that med kit anyway since I'm either gonna get downed going back for it or another survivor will take it. Plus there's always the option of losing the killer and finding a chest or getting healed by teammates. With how common Prove Thyself is after the DS nerf I never feel the need to bring a toolbox, I suck with flashlights so I don't bother unless I have a challenge and can pallet blind, Maps I only use for challenges, and as someone that plays killer as well I despise Keys so I don't bother with them unless again there's a tome challenge for it.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Franklins is a pointless perk. I'm just saying that survivors aren't nearly as much pressured into getting their items back now, which means it's no longer really as effective when it comes down to wasting time.
It still serves its purpose when it comes down to preventing survivors to use their items (to a certain degree), and with this change it's arguably now serving this purpose better. But the change also made it lose some of its efficiency when it comes down to slowing the game down, because survivors aren't pressured as much to get it back. If they want to play the game without their item, then that's perfectly fine (I do it all the time and I seem to manage), and they could just get their item back at the end of the game when all the gens are done.
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Only marginally. It's better, but it's still not worth using IMO as the only items that I think would theoretically be worth bringing Franklin's in against are Keys, and playing around Franklin's is as easy as manually dropping the Key in a secure location to pick up later once the Hatch is in play.
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Mostly a buff. I use it sometimes on Hag because you can trap the lost item and when survivors go back to get it you hit them again. Now if they had a brown medkit for example they don't care about going back to get the item since it won't give you a complete heal. So for Hag it's a bit of a nerf.
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it's a buff IF that PTB key change comes to live servers
otherwise, i prefer deleting items over making everything but keys useless
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I mean it's nice that a depleted key means that it can't open hatch but they can just,, place the key on the ground? I feel like 90 sec is a bit long and If you don't want the key to be picked up before it's fully depleted then it would be the same as old franklin's in which you have to camp the key. The newer version of Franklin's is better against most items, but against keys it's a nerf. Also I might be alone on this but I only used franklin's against keys and if there was 3 medkits.
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The new Franklin's feels healthier because you're still able to keep your item if you find it on the ground with 0 charges. RIP the Entity taking item animation tho.
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Should reduce the timer from 90s to fully empty the item to 60, the item is no longer lost forever so no reason to keep it on a long timer like that.
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So not only do you want the charges to be depleted faster due to the short timer but entirely delete a purple medkit's charges with a 16 charge addon + 12 charge addon in 60 seconds?
Sounds a lil' broken.
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The item you listed in question is already busted af and you are a bit of a sweat lord for bringing that in the first place. Personally the charges being lost overtime I always thought should of been Overwhelming Presence's job but you know BHVR in all their boundless wisdom decided to give it to franklins.
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It's a pretty good buff at the end of the day I can smack medkits out of peoples hands to make them redundant if they take too long
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90 seconds is the perfect mark, cause the charges deplete over time.
By playing the game normally and not needing to camp an item you would get it depleted progressively. After all, you're gonna hit the survivor with the item multiple times, not just once.
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I politely disagree about the statement @Zeus had about Franklin's never being a nerf.
It was a nerf at first, maybe unintentionally, but still a nerf because it couldn't counter keys anymore. Which was a rather huge hot button issue. We were able to counter keys, all was well. Sure, super situational, but hey. At least we always have a passive counter to keys.
Update rolls out
Surprise! Everything will be consumed minus keys, vaccines, and flashbangs. That's what set everyone off and by all accounts comparing those two versions. Yes, it was definitely nerfed.
But, now with the recent key change, I'd say it's just about the same now. Depends on how you see it, but I truly see it as the same thing. But, now built to last might be able to counter this (unless someone wants to correct me) that's the only difference.
But, yeah. I think it's the same.
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When Keys can open hatches period, it is a nerf, but specifically to countering Keys. In every other instance, it was a buff.
But now that Keys will be unable to open hatches when their charge is spent, it is a buff across the board, effectively leaving things exactly the same as they were before the change.
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this perk is a huge buff IMO.
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