I honestly dont think spirit is as bad as people make out
Yes standing still mind game is kinda stupid, yes green rarity and above addons are really strong but let's be honest most players arent trying to counter or play around her power... so if we limited spirit to yellow addons and already have the stridor nerf I honestly dont think she's that bad of a killer to verse, too often while playing spirit or versing spirit I see survivors just run forward, they hear the "whooshing" (her phasing) and just run making it an easy hit or they just dont bother trying and give up.
While I agree spirit is strong we need some strong killers, I'd accept changing green-iri addons to be a little weaker as they do boost her the most but she's honestly not that bad, she wins because people give up, she wins because people dont change their play style. When the ranking is a mess and players are versing a strong killer who can play them well its obviously gonna be a slaughter, no it's not just down to the spirit it's down to survivors as well.
People argue its alot of guessing/reads but that's actually alot of dbd gameplay especially for killer, a great example is a t&l the killer has a 50/50 guess if you're gonna vault.
She's stronger against injured players, so heal and abuse the fact you're healthy and she cant hear your pains.
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Btw, I hardly touch spirit when playing killer, and I dont min versing her. I'd take a spirit over a trapper any day lol
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The problem is the guessing isn’t fair because survivors have 1 way to track her (footsteps) and spirit has foliage, scratch marks, breathing, grunts of pain, vaulting noises and footsteps
Not to mention she moves at 176% without add ons meaning the survivors have very little time to even attempt a counter before thy are dead.
Even if they pull off a mindgame if the spirit is playing well her power will be back up in 5 seconds and it goes back to the guessing game.
Nerfing her add ons wouldn’t fix the issue since they already have and it did barely anything
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Well most of dbd is guessing, that's legit half of the games "counters" or abilities. Like the very common t&l it's just a guess in the end, using PH power is a guess if they double back or not, huntress will they drop the pallets or keep running is a guess etc etc. And honestly youd be surprised how different itd be if you limit her to yellow addons and remove stridor. She benefits from injured players and the higher addons give her too much freedom. But like I said too many survivors arent actually trying (me and my bro had to 2v1 a spirit after 2 dcs, she was awful and we nearly won but the others done the typical run forwards no attempt at misleading then quit) next time you verse a spirit check if they're using stridor and addons above yellow
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That’s pretty much it an indication she’s phasing and add on changes would solve many issues. And keep her strong. No, it wouldn’t make her an awful killer if anyone tells me that you’re overreacting. The majority of Spirits will fall for mind games since they aren’t mastering her. Yes, you face a god Spirit you’ll loose but they’re as common as a god Nurse
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No killers a "god" half the time killers win nowadays is due to bad an inefficient teams. Run empathy, bond and kindred and watch how little people do in a match or how often pallets are wasted. The issue with the higher addons is it gives too much freedom so if you do bait her etc. She can correct her mistakes if she has good addons and that's the biggest issue not the fact you cant see her etc. An indication if shes phasing and changing her green+ addons would make her still in a good spot.
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She can hear your breathing, vaulting, and your footsteps, see and hear foliage moving, and can "50/50" every single loop with short bursts of her power.
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The whole stridor nerf seems to assume that every single survivor uses iron will and would continue to do so once spirit gets chopped, while the reality is most people would like to be able to use different builds but the existence of spirit being as strong as she is kinda forces most survivors to use it, which then in turn causes most spirits to use stridor.
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That wouldn't solve her strongest and easiest playstyle, which is about to creep into everyone's trials.
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I tend to agree. Spirit is strong, but not unbeatable. With the way I see a lot of Survivors in a lot of matches run around the map willy-nilly, leaving wide swaths of scratches and blood behind them that are like runway lights for a Killer, it's no wonder they can't avoid her. I honestly don't see Spirit using Stridor that much, either. Maybe at red tanks they do?...I avoid the red ranks as much as possible, so I can't say for sure.
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Okay but so can most killers on alot of loops, shes 110% has to wait for a full power bar, cant see survivors etc. We can all list things for every killer for either side. But doesnt take away the fact most of DBD is guessing and reads even if we remove spirit
Well I think the stridor nerf was stupid. Nerfing a perk for a killer is a stupid reason, but if you struggle with spirit and iron will counters her most why wouldn't you run it? If you dont want to run it then you take the risk of being weaker against killers that benefit from injured survivors and their noise
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Most spirits do at rank 1, but why wouldn't someone use a good perk for the killer and to counter iron will lol. But with that being removed a few changes to the green addons for duration/speed would be a good fix, people dont get they outplay spirits but she can correct it due to green+addons. But yeah shes not unbeatable, intact most I see lose but like you said people dont try they make it easy for her
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I like to think my survivor builds are quite quirky and off meta but I still generally run iw because it's the only counter to headphones which is a universal killer advantage and a seriously huge one.
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Well yeah, playing dbd without sounds is nasty lol. But if never got the argument "I dont want to run a perk to counter that killer" like if you struggle against a killer use a perk to counter them so you do better? Or take the risk of versing them sorta thing
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I'm it sure you understand how to play Spirit. When you get to a loop, you immediately phase. Survivor knows nothing and is making a guess. You choose a side, moving so fast the survivor has barely any time to do anything. All this happens in about a second, meaning you don't have to wait long for your power to return at all. If you and survivor are on the same side, free hit. If not, repeat in 5 seconds.
No other killer in the game does that.
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It's why I said remove the standstill mindgame then the survivor would know, spirit is 110% if you're gonna sit at a small loop when she hasn't got her power you will get hit eventually. Most range killers can hit over or through. Some can trap or stalk but they're all still gaining from that loop. Biggest issue is addons, she can adjust mistakes too easily. But 5 seconds gets you to another loop and more chances to mindgame her
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True, and I think a lot of Survivors don't really do their homework all that well when it comes to perk builds that work well in different situations, instead of just running the default 'Path Of Least Resistance' builds and then getting upset when they maybe don't work out..
My response to that is one word long: Monto. He is like the YouTube King of unique perk builds.
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Well those are the safe changes that can be made to solve some noticeable issues like the standstill mind games and her add-ons allowing her to become a mobility killer. Anything afterwards would enter butchering her kit and need lots of testing
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Watch out this could be seen as a bait thread...doesn't take much apparently to be warned🤐
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Oh I can promise you they dont lol, I see rank ones playing as if they was new and didn't understand killers or loops lol. But yeah people dont want to use perks to counter though, it's a big argument people have for some reason
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People dont want safe though, they honestly want things to be too easy. For example speak about buffing zombies and see how many say they need nerfs and act like they're op lol
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Spirit is unhealthy. Easy 4K, 0 skill. She needs nerf. Game healthy is more important than someone who likes her.
She needs fair counterplays.
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Because most mind games people talk about will work since the majority of Spirits seem casual. While yes a God Spirit will destroy you they are very rare I’ve seen more god Nurses. I don’t want Spirit to be butchered however if these changes actually happen majority of the time she’ll be a fair challenge. And maybe she’ll get her own chase music
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You can't leave the loop, she hears and see's it. You can't do anything. At all. You just try and guess where she's going to appear. It doesn't even have anything to do with standing still, you're just #########.
And the existence of other BS killers that can and will hit you anywhere is a different problem for a different thread.
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Well it's a shame that isn't true, fake news always spread faster I guess. But does it take skill to play a survivor? Not really you hold a button on a gen, iv versed and beat many spirits and so have others. But I'd assume youd just reply "they bad spirit" not that the survivors are good... all killers beat bad players and nothing is 0skill or easy win providing people are trying
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Something significantly more than some basic phase indication was already tested and found easy for a good Spirit to bulldoze through- her breathing bug.
Spirit needs some real, tangible counterplay, or she needs to be hard as ######### to play like Blight.
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If that was the case people wouldn't beat her or escape against spirits so often, seems like an exaggeration. But if you expect all killers to be limited to following the same loop style that's pretty boring and bland. If you have issues with killers that can anti loop or stop loops then thatd be most killers you hate
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I do not care about survivor gameplay. Most times i am playing killer. I am playing survivor for chilling and when my friends are online. Spirit is unhealthy. 0 skill. So much power for low skill. She is unhealthy for this game. She deserves nerf.
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Blights not hard? He just slides off stuff which makes him bad lol
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Well since you dont play survivor maybe you haven't learned counters, tbf I have seen you hate on a few killers/abilities. But considering you didnt respond to my last comment it's clear you dont do discussions and more complain. You can say 0skill as much as you want but you still need some skill.
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I kind of agree with you.
I still don't like how there's no way to know she is using her power or not. IMO that should have been what was changed, instead of a whole perk just because of one killer.
I'd rather go against 10 spirits in a row than go against a huntress with their 100 meters hatchets any day
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I played +10 matches for adept Plague.
I played +10 matches for adept Trickster.
I played +30 matches for learn Blight and i am still not best with him.
I played +25 matches for learn Nurse and i am still so bad with her.
Spirit? I adepted her my second match. When i play as her, easy 4K. Yeah sureeee. So much skills she needs. I just used tracker perks on her. She is so strong for easy gameplay.
Also if you do not believe me, watch Otz and Scott. They also have videos for Spirit. They both also said she is broken. Her basekit and add-ons unfairly op and she needs changes.
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Yeah I dont like the "I stood still and outplayed you" either. I dont mind huntress though its trappers that I fear lol. The only killer I feel powerless against tbh lol. But honest keep track on how many spirits use stridor, fake phasing or use addons above yellow
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Okay but adepts are random luck iv gotten most of mine in 1-3 tries, doesnt make me a god with all killers... and no I dont just copy streamers, and otz actually speaks about the issue with the high tier addons like I have. Once again you cant say zero skill, pretty sure you mained freddy? Isn't he zero skill too?
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Also I'm suggesting changes, maybe you didnt read the OP properly and just seen spirit and kicked in the keyboard warrior setting
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I am playing Freddy for years. From old version to now. So i am not playing him for him powers. Actually i am not using snares so many times. I am playing Freddy because i love him. I love Elm Street movies. But yes he is also low skill killer.
But you can not accept Spirit is also braindead killer. And Freddy is A-Tier with counters. But Spirit has so much powers without any counter. And she is S-Tier. So no, Freddy and Spirit have not same issues. And also Freddy nerfed already? Spirit needs nerfs.
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People on the forums have to have something to complain about. For killers atm its dead hard and for survivors its spirit.
Not to to long ago it was keys and j-flick. Someone has a bad game, gets mad,rhen rushes on to here to demand "justice".
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The problem is the lack of information.
I faced a Spirit yesterday that basically tunnelled me out of the game. I didn't have Iron Will which meant she had a lot of information on where I was after getting injured.
I did everything to attempt to counter her.
- I continued running
- Crouched
- Run one way, crouched and crawled the next
- Dropped a pallet early
- Vaulted a window then vault immediately back
Some times I got lucky, other times I didn't. Every single time she phased I literally guessed and prayed because there was nothing I could do. 4 thousand hours and all I can do is guess. It wouldn't be as annoying if I thought the Spirit was good or took a long time learning her but she didn't. This killer was 100% not a good Spirit but you don't need to be with Spirit.
The phasing bug was amazing and I was really disappointed when it was removed.
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"The phasing bug was amazing and I was really disappointed when it was removed."
This bug made her brain dead boring to play against because it was too easy to track her which also defeated the purpose of her kit.
"Some times I got lucky, other times I didn't."
This is the definition of PVP, and one of the reason's why I firmly believe that complained about killer's are complained because survivor's don't always have the 51% adavntage in chases with these problematic killers
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I definitely think there are killers that are more problematic that Spirit. Basically any killer that has eternal map mobility, like Nurse, Blight, Wraith and Billy need a cooldown on the abilities that let them transverse from one side of a map to the other over and over again. It makes those killers way better than every other killer.
Spirit has a cooldown on her map transversal power but is problematic because of the no-counter play issue. I'd still rather face her than the other 4 above.
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In sorry but if you think that pvp is just getting lucky then you've never played pvp. PvP is where a player can show their skill off in beating another player. COD for example is aiming skill. It's not luck. If you cant aim you cant kill someone. DBD is a game where the killer has to outplay the survivor to get them it's not luck.
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Dbd isn't a fps, its actually more luck and guess than people think. Luck is all the rng factors and making a right guess can be considered lucky. But I do believe skill is involved, even for spirit. No such thing as a free win
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She does have counter play though, even more if you remove the stringer addons, the fact green addons allow her to adjust mistakes in the same power usage is an issue. But when healthy you have a fair amount to do that can throw her off, plus perks exist for a reason. Imo spirit has more counter than trapper, if theres a trap I avoid it and get hit or get trapped lol but hes a weak killer respectfully because of the setup etc. Not sure i agree on limiting all powers for travelling as it's a huge part of their kit
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Well, I guess I should say her power gives no indication where she is going from the survivors perspective. That's where the no-counterplay argument comes from.
Because of how small some maps have become, infinite travel powers is oppressive. They were already a problem with big maps, but since most of the big maps have been made smaller, having the ability to infinity go from a hook to instantly in a chase with another survivor is just to oppressive. It also makes those killers more sought after than regular killers, because they're so much easier.
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If I could ask. Can someone give some examples of counterplay to Spirit. Alls I've seen so far is people say she has CP but they dont give examples. Any counter that's not a god pallet or window pls. I'll be waiting to debunk your examples.
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Brain dead boring to play against? Survivors had counterplay for once. People like to feel like what they've learned from this game matters in chase, with Spirit it doesn't really.
With more time the Spirit player would've learned the rough timing of when the sound would occur and maybe move somewhere else. This actually meant for once the Spirit player had use their own experience as her to play her well. This actually would've meant she was the Hard killer I believe the devs had labelled her as.
A mind game at a T-wall is using your experience to try and figure out what the other role will do. This doesn't apply to a killer who might not even be using their power at all so therefore your just guessing, based off absolutely no information.
Also love the 51% advantage part lol
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Your statement is already spoiled by your assumption: "if we limit her to her yellow addons" you are discussing about a killer that is not using her best addons and who's gonna tell spirit players to not use green addons?
Following the same logic "if we limit swf to r14 players swf is balanced"
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This game will never be balanced so who cares
Optimization is the real priority
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Survivor runs to a pallet while she is phasing, and instead of predictably running to the other side and slamming it, the survivor slams it before running across. The spirit either gets stunned or is out of position and the survivor gains distance.
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Totally agree. I find it actually fun and intense facing Spirit, imo it's a whole new way of playing, and adds some fun and interesting counterplay. I'd definitely face her over a lot of other killers.
I think my only problem with is how easy she is, other than that I think she's fine.
Edit: Forgot to mention, definitely remove stand still mindgame, it's 0 skill.
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Or the Spirit waits at the 5050 point of the loop hears you drop the pallet comes out of phase with her speed boost and hits you. I cant tell you how many times this has failed.
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