I now understand why people complain about Dead Hard
Okay. I've been playing a lot of killer recently. I had a really good time. Because I really needed a break from survivor, because SoloQ can be a bit much. Especially if you basically only play Survivor SoloQ.
I'm not going to lie. But I always thought that people overreacted over Dead Hard, that they overreacted when they said that this perk could make you lose all your pressure. It's really annoying when you basically have a secured hit but then miss.
But even so. I don't think that Dead Hard needs a rework. Maybe just a little nerf that makes it so that you travel a shorter distance when you use Dead Hard. Just like in the PTB, I don't know if that was a bug in intentional ngl.
(this is not some sort of rant)
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If anything it should have a slightly longer distance but remove iframes. If you couldn't DH into walls and dropped pallets to just phase through a hit it would feel a lot more fair from the killer side, and mean the survivor has to have space in front of them to actually dodge the hit.
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Actually, I'm in favour of that. I rarely ever use Dead Hard to dodge a hit, I always use it to gain distance.
This way we won't even need the whole "waiting for Dead Hard" ######### Killer has to do.
Because let's be honest, that is just janky and it's just a bandaid to Dead Hard as a perk.
Exhaustion perks are meant to be about giving distance anyways. Dead Hard if people keep using it the way it's used right now is basically a free heallth state which you can recover if you escape. People don't complain about Sprint Burst, Lithe, or Balanced Landing. It's only Dead Hard because it's the only one that gives iFrames.
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I like that suggestion even as someone who kind of defends Deadhard. That would be a much healthier change, and more fun for both sides, I believe.
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DH is like nurse. No matter how broken it can be, you cannot nerf it even slightly without making it a worthless trash noone will use
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Honestly, Dead Hard doesn't bother me as much as 360s. At least it has a cooldown.
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Killers would complain about any survivor perk. They complained about bl and devs killed it, so now everyone use dh. If devs nerf dh everyone will use sb, and killers would complain about it
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I have played DBD since 2016 and through most of it, I have been Killer Main, with only recent years I have begun playing both Killer and Survivor equally. I have nothing against Dead Hard in its current state, it works just fine and well. It is a risky perk that in no way guarantees you escape. If you learn that a survivor has a DH, simply time your strike next time when they try to mind game you in DH. It's not like DH is a OP perk. People just are too hasty to use M1.
Granted, there are situations where Survivors use DH to grant themselves distance enough for a free window leap or Pallet safe when normally you would have had them there, but that's just part of the game for crying out loud. Just like Lite, Balanced landing, Sprint, and every other escape perk give you opportunities to create distance from the Killer, so does DH, just differently. It's not like they can spam it, and it's not like you can not continue to follow them if you so desire or leave them and come back when they are still recovering their DH.
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I thought the whole thing about Dead Hard was that you can use it for distance to reach the pallet and extend the chase. Isn't your idea sorta leaning in the big thing that a decent number of people complain about?
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The biggest issue most people have with dh is neither it's distance covered nor the iframes but the availability of the perk. Every other exhaustion perk has either conditions that make it harder to play or are map context sensitive.
But dh condition is only being injured which is already the preferred state of experienced survivor to counter instadowns and not waste time with healing and then it is ready at the push of a button after the killer invested already into chasing the survivor.
Of course stuff like sprint burst is also just pressing shift while moving but the killer can instantly react to seeing that they have the perk and decide to drop the chase or try to cut them off or something. Dh mostly comes into play AFTER the killer already invested one chase for the first hit and then some to get close again.
I personally don't care for kills or pips rather bp but it is still the most frustrating aspect of dh that it is so in your face and ready on demand.
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I don't think Nurse is broken. I would give that title to Spirit
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All exhaustion perks are kind of BS. They're the strongest perks in the game, killer or survivor, but the terrible part is that they are completely unnecessary. I seriously never use them, they're genuinely addictive. Just look at the amount of people that think they're more necessary than info perks/SWF.
But Dead Hard? Ugh. A repeatable outperking is one thing, but a repeatable second chance on top of that? Please, please, please buff Coup to be on a 40 second timer. I want my teammates to feel the pain they're giving to the killers.
Edit: I'm serious, that is the action I want taken. Then the community can decide whether or not these mechanics are fun. Because I'm always going to hate them thanks to AU.
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Thats a bad example since Nurse HAS been nerfed several times already.
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When you get used to as killer DH is only a problem when they use it for distance. The iframes end up not mattering when you get used to know when they are going to use DH, just the distance they make to next safe zone. I fear much more things like sprintburst or balance landing when they play efficiently.
My guess is that if they removed iframes and made DH distance longer it would get better at high level and worse at mid to low. Except against nurse i guess, it is very strong against her.
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Agree and its the same with keys. If they touch them, they break them.
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Just ignore the fact BL caused infinites to be possible.
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I dont think keys should be changed. Just make hatch spawn only after 5 gens are done, or if only 1 survivor is alive. Also make hatch opening animation for X seconds
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Dead Hard for me is the least of my worries.
I would rather go against it every match than Sprint Burst which is a much superior exhaustion perk anyway. You don’t have to be injured to use it so you’re potentially saving 2 health states considering a lot of killers leave you alone if they see you sprinting away from where they wanted you to loop them.
Sprint Burst has caused me to lose more matches than DH has simply because they overcommitted to a gen because they knew they were safe with SB ready to go.
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My only problem with dead hard is that it can ignore the killers power if I throw a hatchet at them it hits but it doesn't count as a hit, this is the same with other killers like deathslinger. You can also go straight through a trappers trap. This is the only exhaustion perk that lets you do all of this
Post edited by Manhunt on4 -
I play both sides and as a survivor, Dead Hard is not a great exhaustion perk. I think Sprint Burst, Lithe and Smash Hit are all better.
As a killer, I've never had problems with Dead Hard but do have issues with Sprint Burst and Balanced Landing. Maybe I should play Balanced Landing more...
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The amount of times I shot from a distance as Deathslinger only for them to just Press E is just.... Not fun.
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Agree. I don't mind the distance, and it could have more, but just ignoring my well-timed attack when I had you cornered by phasing through it just feels unfair.
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if you don't rely on a lunge to close the distance and lunge anyway deadhead is useless
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At least,you have Mindbreaker to deal with Sprint Burst
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BL created infinites with it's passive stagger reduction. Is that healthy, in your book? Proper use of DH gives a third health state, and can elongate a chase from fifteen seconds to another sixty. All by pressing a key. That itself isn't healthy, though I'm unsure how you could properly adjust the perk without killing it. Half the community already uses SB as it is, so I see no change there. Though I do get annoyed when they 99 it. . .
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Dead hard for distance is arguably the most uncounterable part of dead hard.
When a survivor needs just a little bit more distance to make it to a pallet or window, they use DH. Regardless of what the killer does, that survivor will make it to that window or pallet.
Yes, you remove I- frames. But you make the worst part of the perk an even bigger problem.
Post edited by BingBongMan on1 -
Since the DS nerf, Dead Hard is the most annoying perk to face for me.
When I catch bad positioned survivors with that damn perk equiped it almost always save them when they are near a pallet or window, in a lot of matches I have the feel of losing due Dead Hard.
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They didn't kill Balanced. They made it more reasonable, because you shouldn't get a reduced fall after you've already used the sprint burst and are exhausted.
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I have a problem with the i-frames. It doesn't matter if a hatchet goes through your body or whatever. You're just invincible because you pressed a button.
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One of the current problems is the invulnerabilty that DH grants. Many times a survivor makes a mistake trying to go again for the same loop when you are almost at the end of a pallet, they can simply bypass the killer going backwards and throw a pallet, guarantizing a stun and the breaking time in order to reach another tile.
The "Hey, I hit them" when you hit them with a spear or a hatchet but they DH anyway, since with Deathslinger, you need to reload your gun in orden to fire it again which creates more distance, I think that's part of its unfairness since you already have distance from it and it will make it fairest, because you couldn't DH on a bear trap and completely negate the killer's power either.
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finally an intelligent person who uses his brain!
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and you as a huntress, you can hit me around a corner because the target of the blow is too wide ... everyone will always say that the advantage is the opponent ... think about playing!
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Right!!! but they should understand that even killers are subject to gravity! if a survivor launches from above and staggers, this should happen to the killer too!
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Unrelated.
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If killers suffered from falls like survivors, it would fundamentally destroy the killer role. Most if not all maps have a place to drop from. So if a survivor has Balanced, god forbid most of them have it, the killer will take an extremely long amount of time to catch up to that survivor, because they get a sprint burst and the killer gets dead stopped. And killers are supposed to be supernaturally strong. It doesn't make any sense for them to be staggered at the bottom of a fall like survivors.
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Id rather rip my own hair out and eat it then BUFF dead hards distance when one of its main complaints is that its used for distance
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I agree. I'd rather have the i-frame stay and the distance being reduced.
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You know it's funny. When most survivors actually try to play killer they start to realize most of the stuff were complaining about has actual reason behind it.
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Umm...No.
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Dh can be annoying but it's not terrible per say
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I hardly find this as a valid point, though I see where you are coming from with it. Thinking that investing time in chase, only to see the survivor using DH to make their escape, is not really exclusive to Dead Hard. You might just as much see someone use Lite or Balanced landing after having invested time in chase, only to see them escape through a simple window leap or falling down from a high place.
Just because DH is available at any moment, does not mean it is useful in every moment. You as a Killer have the power to decide from which angle you approach and if you approach at all in cases where you find the generator too convenient for the use of DH. There are plenty of choices you are free to make during a match. Forcing a chase against a skilled DH user in a bad area of the map is perhaps not the best use of your time if there are weaker survivors in a match easier to chase down first. You wouldn't try to force a chase against a Balanced Landing user in an area with opportunities to fall down from a high place, now would you? This same logic applies to Dead Hard, I think.
I really think Killers should pay more attention to their pressure game and not chase game, as survivors will more often than not be in the advantage of running away but not forever. Dead by Daylight is designed to be played in a way where Killers pick out weak survivors and create openings to quickly injure survivors, leave them, and come back later to finish the job if they have not healed. Naturally, this tactic does not always work depending on so many factors; what killer you play and in what map, what survivors bring with them, etc. It is a bit of chaos mixed in. But trust me, Dead Hard is not the reason why you fail in sacrificing survivors. If it was, you would see me talking in favor of nerfing Dead Hard instead of defending it. After all, I have played Dead by Daylight since 2016, and most of it as a Killer.
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if you couldn't vault or throw pallets after a dead hard it would be balanced, its purpose is to avoid getting hit. not to extend chases by giving you extra distance when you ######### up looping, that's what is annoying. when someone is good at looping and gets a second chance.
Personally me and my friends, they mostly play survivor don't run it, bc its a bullshit perk and we don't need it. That's because we are good at looping, or good enough a second chance is bullshit.
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Hey, first: Damn that is a late response XD I thought the thread would already be dead after a week.
Second: I don't care about dead hard. I got luckily behavioured with the rank reset bug 3 months ago and chill in yellow to green ranks and friendly farm BP/adept while not killing anybody outside of dailies. 🤗
Third: My point was aimed at the topic of the thread and my point of view why deal hard is more annoying/frustrating than all other exhaustion perks.
Fourth: I have seldomly seen people really hold their bl or lithe. Bl is most often telegraphed when they run up somewhere and obviously want to you it and lithe is most often used early on the chase to gain distance, just like sb right of the bat.
P.S.: I also started playing this game since release but i still have less than 300 hours since I can't stand to play this game for long periods of time alone and never had people to play survivor with in my circle.
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Imagine if Dead Hard actually worked and you weren't exhausted on the ground because you got hit in the middle of your animation three-five times a game. IMAGINE.
If Dead Hard needs a nerf when it doesn't even ######### work, then so does BBQ. I don't care if killers get a 4k. They should only get one or two stacks. Seems fair to me.
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Imagine still argumenting with dead hard for dodging when most people have a problem with dead hard for distance and not the dodge but not reading any comments.
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I don't care that you don't like how the perk is sometimes used. I've seen people make this post over and over and over and over again. How is it not the same? I don't like that BBQ is used for extra BP, therefore it needs to be nerfed. Or maybe we should just switch. I don't like that BBQ shows auras, so that should stop working.
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Fun fact it does and has 4+ counter. Now tell me again the counter to dead hard for distance after investing one and a half chase already?
Drop the chase? ....Good answer. 🙄
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This. It’s even more infuriating when they DH right into your character model and your swing magically passes through them as though they’re a ghost.
It’s obnoxious and frustrating.
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the only thing that annoys me with dead hard is the fact that I get frame drops when someone does it, other than that I just bait the damn thing out.
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Exactly. But there's something that's even more funny.
The killers lunge (just hold M1 and spin to outplay) itself is a version of dead hard, with every possible upside (less cooldown, speedboost in midair, basekit, rotational control, no usage condition, can be modified/buffed through perks/addons) except that it slows down momentum, yet nobody ever mentions that.
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