Dirty Killer forces you to quit a match
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kicking gens barely does anything anyways lol.
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I disagree with that last part, a killer can hold the game hostage too (Not talking about this case in particular) but there's some cases when the killer can trap someone in a room or a corner and stay there. I was blocked by a wraith in a room with another survivor (only ones left) and since there was 1 gen left we could not leave because there was only 1 way out and he just stood there until we disconnected.
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The whole "two survivors left with unfinished gens" scenario is broken, it must be reworked completely from the game design perspective. For survivors there is no point in doing gens, since they know it's pointless: they will just be found and killed sooner this way, and 80 seconds is too long for 2 survivors and 3 gens left to camp for the killer. Survivors will wait for the hatch. And the killer will not leave those 3 gens, because it's pointless for him. If both sides play it right, the game can last forever.
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Endgame collapse should auto trigger after a trial exceeds 35 minutes long games are ######### boring
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Yes, there is cooldown` bleeding out... blah blah.
Many guys explained that survivors can still finish the match IN MATH.
In fact, it will take hours.
So it's our duty to finish the job without blaming?
I am free in math not a hostage ...OK.
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I take it you and everyone else making these statements have like some sort of reading comprehension cuz there's a whole previous page that goes into depth of what happened take your killer goggles off
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35 too [BAD WORD] long lol
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Killer is *not* holding the game hostage. 1 survivor on the gen, the other one, just don't struggle on pick up.
If 1 of the survivors is always on a gen they would have gotten them done.
Totally rude from the killer. But anyone who says it's holding the game hostage is wrong.
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You still bleed out if the killer is carrying you?
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This Forum...
There is a Killer player who is legit taking the game hostage by not progressing it (by either hooking the Survivors or letting them just bleed out) or by letting the Survivors progress it and it still gets defended in this Forum.
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Taking the game hostage means exactly a scenario where it never ends.
This also won't last 20 minutes. 10 tops. After 4 minutes the other survivor will have bled out and then either the killer has to leave you to close the hatch letting you bleed out faster or after every 4th drop the survivor can run and go for the hatch.
Don't get me wrong you can almost certainly get them for grieving at that point. But its not holding the game hostage.that terminology is slowly losing all meaning with how many people misuse it.
Source? I'm pretty sure the only times the devs concidert something holding the game hostage was when survivors hide for 30+ minutes.
This won't last more then 10 minutes
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No, but the other player can work on the gens while the killer is playing "pickie uppie, droppie".
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People aren't defending it. Just saying it's not holding the game hostage. Which is true. 2 survivors can absolutely progress the game. Even if the killer isn't hooking or letting them bleed out.
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Is it people saying this is holding the game "hostage" that is creating this argument here? Is that the problem?
Could everyone at least agree this probably counts as griefing, which is a reportable offense? Holding the game hostage is a type of griefing, but it's not the only type. What the killer did in this situation serves no purpose other than to drag the game out and make the players miserable. The killer was hindering the survivors from completing their goal, the killer was not attempting to complete his own goal, and the combination of these two things means the killer was causing the game to go on for an excessive amount of time.
I'm amazed no one has tagged @MandyTalk to come in here and say whether or not this incident is reportable/bannable. And if the killer did break the rules, what can a person do to report it if the killer's name was not shown at the end of the match? Because that's an important part of the story: the match details didn't show the killer's name. What is a person supposed to do in that situation?
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I'm amazed how confindently people people defend this position when the Devs have said this about 3-gen Doc:
If it is not how okay for a Doc to stall the game for a long time I don't see how someone stalling for an hour would be okay.
And about the gen finishing thing: It is hard to judge if the survivors could have played better in this scenario without a video but that shouldn't matter, if the Survs are bad you can kill them easily and in the oppositional situation, where two Survs are hiding you also wouldn't blame the Killer for not finding them even if a more experienced killer or a killer with better perks might have been able to.
Also ChantyBoi, the Mods have said multiple times that it counts as holding the game hostage if the killer blocks one or more Survs in the corner, even if other Survs are still able to finish the gens.
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huh I actually didn't know that I've gone against those doctors before and games last for like 50 minutes
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One: I have flat out said in other comments that the killer needed to be reported for griefing. Not holding the game hostage.
Two: Your doing the same bloody thing defending the survivors who WERE holding the game hostage by never progressing their objective as the other survivor was dealing with the killer. Thus holding the game hostage by refusing to do their objective themselves as the killer can't stop both without killing one.
So if you want to talk down about the forum look at what your doing yourself first.
This game the thread is based off of is a prime example of both sides of that game being in the wrong.
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You said everyone in this match should be reported.
The teammate freezed, the killer could easily end the game.
I had tried my best but nothing worked.
You ganna report me?
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Hello.
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I just don't get how this game could not be finished by the survivor. There were two of them and the killer can only handle one at a time.
So during the time the killer does their pickup-dro-thingy with the slugged, the other has 30seconds of either bleed-out-timer or gens progress time.
At some point after either (i don't know the number of remaining gens) 30 minutes max of progressing gens or 15 minutes of alternating bleeding out either the doors should be ready or the hatch in play.
Now the killer can keep this slug juggling up and every time during the stun the survivor can try to either progress a door (once they managed to get there) and the killer can't undo the progress or they can try to find hatch and, IF the killer decides to close it, egc starts and sets the game on a countdown.
It is overall a freaking griefing fest from the killer and should them get banned but the survivor could've done something but opted for going afk.
Also DC penalties are still off and I don't think that neither bp, pips nor any items are worth to stay in such a game.
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Yes, it is clearly griefing and can be reported for grieving.
The problem is people twisting the meaning of holding the game hostage which no doubt leads to 1000ths of false reports which leads to the actual legit report to take ages or get burried.
Why do you think the devs are putting resources into an automated system
Doctor used to be different because he could keep survivors in madness tier 3 pretty much all the time.
This post was before the rework and doesn't hold merrit now. With how doc doesn't passivilly increase madness anymore and survivors go back to tier 1 after snapping out you can't hold the game hostage like this anymore
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You all killers are talking about 2 survivors can finish the game (in math).
Actually there was only 1 (It' me. The teammate freezed first.) keeping going.
The killer should done his job but he chose to scew me.
OK you said killers won't hold THE GAME in hostage (in math).
The killer just held ME in hostage.
I don't see what's the different for such a bad trip.
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If the killer refused to chase you, hook you, etc., then the killer was holding the game hostage. If you just hid the whole time and the killer couldn't find you, that's not the killer's fault.
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I don't think most deny that it was a shitshow for a trial by the killer but i, like i commented above, just don't understand your handling of the situation.
Either you could've tried long and painfully to advance the game because as you said the killer gave at least some attention to the second survivor which should give you windows of opportunity to work at something or advance your bleeding out.
Or the other option would've have been DCing yourself which is not an encouragable behaviour but still an option and penalties are already off ATM.
And if either bp, a pip or an in-game item OR a potential five minute time penalty are worth more than the frustration and time wasted you experienced for you then I would say you should check your own priorities in life.
Second and, if your problem is the attitude of the killer then sorry I get more than often said that taunting action from the other side can't hurt one and one should try grow a thicker skin and stand above such behaviour and I would have to say the same to you that I get told.
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Sorry, but I don't agree with your assessment. And neither do the mods, going by the quote from a mod that was posted here:
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This forum should have an age restriction
You guys are so childish toward this situation, its depressing.
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Reporting the killer will do nothing as they were not holding the game hostage. You should have just done the gens. If he kicks them, keep doing them. If he hits you, keep doing them. If he downs you, bleed out. There is no possible scenario where this killer was holding the game hostage.
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All you had to do was do gens or bleed out. It wasn't held hostage; you were just trying to win and failed.
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OP also mentioned that the Killer was intentionally making Survivors get back up, which makes bleeding out not a feasible option. That's the big difference in my book.
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I am trying to win when I were watching NETFILX waiting death?
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Yes, so I did DCed.
I just tell about kind of situation is used to screw people by bad guys and suggest a time limit for every match.
Time is treasure so I leave few posts here after 3700+ hours gaming.
Also there is no need to teach me "DO GENS" ` "DO NOT HIDE FORM KILLER" ` "JUST DC AND GO FORWARD TO A NEW MATCH".
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No it's not the same thing lol. If a doctor is doing that they are going out of their way and INTENTIONALLY giving up hits to put the survivors in a state where they can not progress gens. If a doctor specifically follows someone around and keeps them in tier 3 without ever attempting a down yes that is holding a game hostage because the game can not end. Funny thing is, that's not what happened to the guy who made this post. The survivors still had the physical ability to do gens and therefore progress the game.
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That quote was made before the rework of the doctor a few years ago.
It does not hold merrit now.
Case is very clear to me. Killer was a jerk and could and should have been reported for grieving.
He was not holding the game hostage and people need to learn what that means to prevent false reports. So the people/automated system soon can actually do their job.
It's because of these kind of things hackers and other problematic players aren't getting dealt with
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i love reddit killers omg
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Yeah but then they can do gens so it’s not a bannable offence. They’ll either do all the gens or bleed out over time.
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False justification for a DC.
Even if the killer is only kicking gens and refuses to hit/down anyone, gen progression is faster than applied regression. As long as both of you are on separate gens, the killer cannot stop progression enough to stalemate.
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You are both not getting my point. Yeah, Doc has (or had) a unique way to stop games from ending but to me that quote shows are different point: That it is punishable if the killer refuses to finish the game.
OP and his teammate both went afk after they noticed that they would not be able to finish the gens (yes in theory you can finish the gens with two people but if the killer is just chasing you away and doesn't commit to a chase it is going to take an eternity, especially in solo queue where you can't coordinate you actions well. OP might also be new, what would make it even harder to deal with the situation) so the killer could have easily ended the match but he decided not to.
Instead of just hooking them (again if they are both afk there is no excuse like "I was worried about hatch") he downed them and then picked them up and dropped them which prolonged the game. You, Sonzaishinai, said that this should take about 10 minutes, I've seen other numbers in different discussions (30-40 min) so I don't know which guess is correct, but even ten minutes seems pretty unreasonable to me (if I remember correctly a Dev or Mod said that Survs hiding/doing nothing for 10 minutes would be enough to be reportable).
You could argue if it is against the rules for the survs to just give up, but I have never seen a Mod say anything in this direction (and since the Devs didn't get rid of killing yourself on hook when they changed the struggle mechanic I don't think the mind giving up, as long as you do not dc). I would argue that the situation could be comparable to farming and the Devs/Mods have said about that, that it is only okay if no one is forced to participate in the farming, so that would be another reason for me to assume that the behviour of the killer was not okay.
I know your point is more that it is grieving, not holding the game hostage, that might be right but it also seems unecessary nitpicky to me, considering that holding the game hostage is listed as griefing in the game rules (and griefing is the only category in which this situation would fit imo, if you follow the descriptions) I don't think the Mods would have to much trouble dealing with the report because the category is already correct, just the sub category does not fit perfectly (even though the other mentioned offenses in the griefing category wouldn't fit the Situation either so..).
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So he basically tried to force you to farm.
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You are not getting my point
I am not defending this killer in any way or form.
Just want to let it know that this is grieving and not holding the game hostage.
So that people who get slugged a bit won't start sending fake holding the game hostage reports.
Stealing is a crime. But if you call it murder and the police has to handle every shoplifter as a murderer then the real murderers are just out there longer or won't get caught at all.
There is a reason they have to put time effort and resources into making an automated report system
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There's a huge, obvious difference between stealing and murder. The difference here between whether or not this was griefing or holding the game hostage is minimal at best.
If two survivors are left on the map, and they stealth around for an extended amount of time not touching gens, the devs have stated that those survivors are holding the game hostage. The survivors are stopping the killer from completing his objective while at the same time refusing to do their own, preventing the game from proceeding. The killer could spend an ungodly amount of time searching the entire map for those survivors with no clue where they might be, the killer is not necessarily forced to disconnect to end the match, but the game could go on for an unreasonable amount of time.
In the original poster's scenario, the killer is not allowing the survivors to complete their objective while also refusing to complete his own, not giving them a chance to bleed out or die on the hook. If the survivors really try, they don't have to disconnect and may be able to complete the gens, but the match could go on for an unreasonable amount of time. The difference between this scenario and the above scenario is negligible.
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I know that you are not saying what the killer did was okay, but I addressed two people in my comment and the first points were more directed at the other person (I could have separated that better though).
You ignored my points:
1. Taking the game hostage is griefing and I'm pretty sure that you only have the option to report by category not by sub category ingame, so it shouldn't matter. (If you send a ticket you can only choose between hacking, exploiting, harassment, unsportsmanlike and other, so I don't see how calling it "taking the game hostage" would be a problem here).
2. Atleast in the game rules on this forum there is no offense that is called "prolonging the game for an unreasonable time" so if you have to choose one of the options that are mentioned in the game rules "taking the game hostage" is probably the closest to the situation OP described.
To further support my point: The Mods have called the situation where the killer blocks one survivor in a corner for a long time "holding the game hostage" even though the other Survs can still finish the last gens and end the game via egc, so it wouldn't be holding the game hostage by your Definition.
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They can definitely win lol. Do separate gens... He can't interrupt 2 at once. Plus he CAN'T kick a gen if you're working on it. So even if he's repeatedly grabbing 1 off a gen and dribbling them then when you wiggle free start the gen. Meanwhile teammate 2 is doing the other gens uninterrupted.
It's literally impossible for killer to hold the game hostage with 2 survivors alive. You'll either bleed out, die from hooks, or finish gens. That's why egc happens when 1 survivor remains and hatch is closed. That's the ONLY time a killer could stop all progress.
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You are missing the point. The post shows that it IS possible for the Killer to be reported for hostage-holding by refusing to allow the enemy to complete their objective while simultaneously refusing to do your own objective. That very much fits the situation as OP described it (assuming, of course, that OP is being accurate/honest in their description).
Stealing is not murder, but the situation OP described is hostage holding.
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The problem is that eventually bleeding out over time does not cut it if the Killer is intentionally extending that time by a lot while also preventing the gens from being done. We already know that "forever" is not the cutoff for what is considered "hostage holding." It only has to be well past a reasonable point.
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But the killer can’t really do that. Best he can do is pick up one survivor until the wiggle timer or drop them repeatedly (which will allow them to wiggle free pretty quickly,) whilst the other survivor is either doing gens or bleeding out.
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It's not hostage holding
There are 2 survivors.
When the killer is constantly picking the op up and dropping him again the other survivor can either do gens or is bleeding out.
In the 3 gen the op stated it would take like 2 minutes for the gates to be opened at which point EGC starts
If the other is getting slugged then the hatch spawns after 4 minutes and op can either escape with hatch cause after the 4th drop he returns to injured state or the killer closes the hatch and EGC starts
With survivors sneaking around you can atleast make the argument that the killer is just unable to find them making the game unable to be ended
With old doc the survivors could litterally not do gens making the game unable to end.
The situation op described always reaches an end and it will be 10-15 minutes tops
If somebody reads this threat and comes across a killer that is trying to get adept and gets the idea of searching for the last survivor with another on his shoulder to give them as much time to find the last survivor. Should that killer then also be reported and punished for holding the game hostage.
Cause it won't take a lot of effort for a frustrated player to see this as the same situation
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Here's the thing: In a three-gen situation, the Killer can easily keep tabs on the areas surrounding the gens, so it's not like "the other Survivor has free reign to do whatever they want while the Killer is picking up and dropping." Can progress be made here and there? Sure. Can the Survivors EVENTUALLY finish things up and move the game on? Sure. Can the game be dragged on way past a reasonable point by just dedicating all the effort to defending a 3-gen and zero effort to actually ending a game, even if eventually the Survivors do eventually succeed? Definitely, especially if there is a noticeable gap in skill between the two sides. It's like how Survivors can drag things out way past a reasonable point by dedicating all their effort to hiding and zero effort to finishing the game, even though eventually the Killer will find someone, hook them, and move the game forward.
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If you take the literal POV that the killer's role is to kill the survivors, then what is the time-scale within which they must do this? Until the gens are completed and doors open, right?
So for the killer to reach their objective, they have to slow down the gens in some manner. Hence there's a multitude of perks to allow them to do exactly that.
I've no idea what you were trying to get at because you really didn't change the point at all. It's part of the killer's role to slow the gens down. The survivors cannot do it; they can abstain from completing gens entirely, but they can't actively slow them!
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Don't bother explaining that to someone that don't read or listen.. He's probably one of those that play only spirit and come to forums to say shes perfectly fine.
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Here's the thing, though: The Killer does not end the game by slowing down gens. The Killer ends the game by killing Survivors. Slowing down the gen progression is a means to an end. If the Killer is not killing Survivors, then the Killer is not actively progressing the game. Preventing the Survivors from progressing the game is fine AS LONG AS the Killer is actively progressing the game. If the Killer is intentionally NOT progressing the game AND intentionally preventing the Survivors from progressing the game, the Killer is not fulfilling their role.
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