http://dbd.game/killswitch
SBMM is a one way Ticket...
...to the sweater Hell.
Let's be honest: Who doesn't want to see a balanced Gameplay experience? Great. You want to have fun and equal Oponents to play with. So SBMM (Skill Based Matchmaking) sounds like a good idea, right?
Well, it is not that easy. You can see many Problems occuring in other Games (like Cod) but even more so here in DBD. DBD is an asymmetrical PvP Title which means there will be more Hurdles to overcome compared to a symmetrical Game. Let me explain, what i mean with all that:
First off you will get a hidden MMR. That means if you win, you will gain more MMR Points, if you lose, you will lose points. If your Oponent has a higher MMR as your MMR value, this means you will get more MMR points compared to an equal Oponent. Let's say you have a 1200 MMR and your Oponent has a MMR of 1200 and you win the Match, you gain like 15 MMR Points. If your Oponent would have 1225 MMR and you win the Match, you would gain around 20-25 MMR, which means you gain and lose MMR Points depending on the other person's MMR Rating.
The First Problem with that System ist, The Survivors may have different ratings, so there will be generated an average Rating for the Survivor Team, which can end up in Matchmaking like the Following:
Survivor A : 976
Survivor B: 1100
Survior C: 734
Survivor D: 1490
Killer: 1075
As you can see, the average MMR Rating of the Survivors equals the MMR of the Killer. This is the understanding or the MMR System for a Balanced Match. In reality this is more unbalanced than what we have now (a Rank System). Not only that, but the Killer's MMR can be lower or even higher in that example, because if the Matchmaking System cant find a good group for your MMR Value, you will get matched with even lower or higher Rated Survivor Groups. This is ofc the same Problem on the Survivor Side and this means, Things get messed pretty quickly.
So your Oponents will jump in their MMR and this means there will be Differences in the Skills of all the Players, which means your learned and trained Movement or Aiming for Skillshots etc. wont work as well as they used to be because there wont likely be consistent Oponents every Match. This is also caused by the MMR gain and loss by comparing your hidden MMR to the Oponents MMR as i have mentioned before.
The second Problem is, that the System will only Track your latest Performance in DBD, which means some high experienced 5k hours Players could just play while they're drunk or something (you know what i mean) or just play bad like a few days because they dont care then if they decide to play at their fullest potential again, they get Matched with inferior (skilled) Players and absolutely Dominate the upcoming Matches, because of their massive experience lead.
Another Problem as the Title suggests is, that it is a one way Ticket to the sweater Hell. It does not matter if you get better at the Game. It will get more sweaty, stressful and punishing for you, if you get better in DBD.
I think of all the High Rank Content Creators out there. Ths is a Problem as the Game is NOT a Competetive Game and it is heavily SWF sided in high Ranks. It is also heavily Killer sided in low Ranks. This is another Reason why SBMM wont work as well as in Cod. The better you get as Killer, the more you will get punished, while the better you get as survivor, the easier it will become. You can see where this will lead.
Content Creators will most likely get sweater Matches only and this means less or no good Content (Replays) for their Videos or Livestreams.
This and the Problems i have mentioned before can cause more frustration over the mass of players and can lead into an inactive Community, Reverse Boosting, more AFK behaviour and Disconnecting Players and maybe also more cheaters. SBMM will do everything but NOT bring us a balanced Matchmaking nor will it be good for DBD in the long run.
Final Conclusion:
I suggest that BHVR should balance the Game out before introduce a Skill Based Matchmaking. We all have seen what SBMM can cause amongst other Gaming Communitys, but those Games are again, much easier to handle and balance for the Devs as DBD due to its asymmetrical Nature.
Dowsey said in one of his Videos, that BHVR should make Survivors more equal in strength compared to SWF. If random Survivor Teams get as strong as SWF, then BHVR can truly balance the whole Game, leading into Killers wont be OP in low ranks and wont be weak in high ranks anymore.
This will create a good feeling DBD Experience and not introduce a System, which wont fit the Games current Balancing.
Comments
-
I'm just looking forward to all the NA and EU players being forced into an approximate version of the hell that is AU (and from what I've been told, SA) red ranks. (I should probably actually check out SA servers. I did my homework on the other 3.)
It's going to be so fun! Sure, maybe I'm just a heartless ######### that wants to see people suffer, but... Yeah, no, that just about covers it. Heartless, mean, sadistic.
0 -
Sweaty players are going to get paired with sweaty players. Isn't that how it's supposed to be like?
5 -
These forums are full of SBMM experts...
I didn't read it fully, but you make a lot of assumptions and statements that are not necessarily correct.
Leave it to BHVR to figure out the issues.
2 -
Please read the whole Text. Please look closer at the example of the Matchmaking:
Survivor A : 976
Survivor B: 1100
Survior C: 734
Survivor D: 1490
Killer: 1075
The Killer has 1075 MMR so this represents his Skill level. Survivor D has a MMR of 1490 which is a massive difference in Game knowledge, experience and Skill Level! A Survivor with its strength, can make the difference, even though the Survivor Team is seen as Balanced for the Matchmaker. In fact it is not balanced at all. The Killer cant know which Survivor is good or not and Time is everything in DBD. Also Survivor C will get heavily overwhealmed by the experience of the Killer. This will lead to a total chaotic Match if this example Match goes live.
"Sweaty players are going to get paired with sweaty players." - You dont understand how the Game works. As i mentioned in my initial Post, the Game is unbalanced in low and high rank Games, depending on SWF or non SWF, so your comment doesnt make any sense.
Post edited by Lordofweed on0 -
And this example would only come to pass on swf which the system would've have to compensate in one way or another. It would've to take the act of playing together into account and sorry I also have to suffer in league of legends when I play normals with a buddy on high diamond/master rank but that is my decision and not the responsibility of the system (a reason why I don't play much with him anymore).
In a full functional sbmmr system there wouldn't be discrepancies of up to 700 mmr points in a full solo group.
Edit: Also in your example there are not only the two high elo survivor but two below the killer and the 734 elo player would be the weak link. It is already customary for killer to find the weak link and get them out of the game to tip the balance and you example would be the same except when the 1,5k player were able to protect the weak somehow and even then 2 out of 4 survivor don't really do anything.
0 -
We don't even know how often a situation like that comes up yet. Ideally I'd assume the matchmaker would be searching for 5 player close in rating and not just the first 5 people in queue.
0 -
There are Teams with only 2 premades or 3. There can be 1 or 2 random Survivors. So this makes it even harder for the System to balance.
"In a full functional sbmmr system there wouldn't be discrepancies of up to 700mmr points in a full solo group." - So thats why im getting matched with 5,7k hours Survivors, while im having 170 hours of DBD Playtime? BHVR is testing the new SBMM now or am i wrong?
I also have heared not very positive feedback from other Killers and even frome some Survivors.
Post edited by Lordofweed on0 -
You can't balance the game without SBMM. Without accurate ranking of participants in a match, who can say whether a player is boosted by aiming for emblems, by tunneling someone out early, or by playing the most powerful meta they can. A current red rank game can be a mixture of people of less than 50 hours to more than 5000 hours, the difference in knowledge and skill are massive.
With good matchmaking trends could be established, where you could show that in a fair match with equally skilled players that one side has the edge if another, or that some maps are busted, that some killers perform better than others, or what perks lend themselves to more successful gameplay. All of this while being able to say that the data isn't compromised by bad matchmaking.
1 -
Where have you heard that they are testing now Oo they announce their tests and made the last test a mess by resetting the data.
And of course there will be some negative feedback. Especially from streamer. They are to DBD what pro player are in league of legends. They only get to play against other pro players and have to wait quite some time for a match to happen.
But that is what it means to be the best of the best. What do you expect for them. That they get to play against noobs like now?
This brings me to your point about matching a 5,7k hour player against someone like us with roughly 200 hours. That is the problem of the RANK BASED matchmaking and thedchanic of widening the matching parameters with longer queue times. That is the mess we are given NOW.
And to the point of mixed lobbies of 2/3 mens and solo. Then the system would've to set up lobbies in accordance to the killers mmr and the range around that. For example your 1490 and the 734 together with two solo around 1100 and a killer with the same.
That would be a working sbmmr system. The swf is averaged with or without some correction factor for the possible communication (which should be dampened by balancing solo with swf via additional in-game information) and then the rest of the lobby and the killer is set according to that.
1 -
"This brings me to your point about matching a 5,7k hour player against someone like us with roughly 200 hours. That is the problem of the RANK BASED matchmaking and thedchanic of widening the matching parameters with longer queue times. That is the mess we are given NOW."...
Uhm Rank based? Look at this...
If you mean this, then congrats, your wrong.
"And to the point of mixed lobbies of 2/3 mens and solo. Then the system would've to set up lobbies in accordance to the killers mmr and the range around that. For example your 1490 and the 734 together with two solo around 1100 and a killer with the same.
That would be a working sbmmr system."
In theory this sounds good but practically this is unbalanced, because you dont play against the MMR Rating itself, you play against different skilled human beings.
0 -
This topic is not about Rank Boosting and not about other Problems occuring not within the Range of SBMM. Those Problems are not related to SBMM and have to be treated individually.
0 -
Example killer has skill of 10
Vs team Alpha: everyone has skill of 9 (total 36)
Or vs team Beta, 3 guys have skill of 12 and a guy has skill 4 (total of 40)
Killer has far higher chance to win over Beta if hes luckily found the guy skill of 4 first.
0 -
Not necessarily. The 1 "unskilled" Player most likely will sit on a Gen 24/7 and hide if the Killer is near. Also if this is in an SWF Scenario, The other 3 Players will call out where the Killer is going, so the Killer wont find the unskilled Player or maybe not fast enough and Gens will Pop fast. If he is going for the other 3 Players, which have more experience in your example, then he will waste also a bunch of time because the Survivor are more experienced in Loops and wasting Time, which the Killer is not prepared for. Also you have to think about those 3 better Survivors: 1 or 2 will offer themselves as bait to the Killer and waste so much Time.
Chances are good, this will be an easy loss (at least for the Killer).
0 -
I think you blissfully missed the sentence "problem of the RANK BASED matchmaking and the mechanic of widening the matching parameters with longer queue times".
And the picture only shows me either exactly what I said above or a swf using a rank 11 to fool the matchmaking that is in use right now.
I can show some of my lobbies if You want that show the mess of mm we have right now but i am finishing work right now and am on mobile and would have to black out the names.
0 -
Because bhvr has a great track record with anything new. Legit the only thing that they havent messed up from a technical stand point on a large scale was crossplay.
1 -
I pretty much dont care about Queue Times. This might disturb some Players but i guess most people would rather wait 2 Minutes longer and play a truly balanced Match, than wait 1 Minute for a Match and having a bad experience.
Yes, i know about the Matchmaking right now and believe me when i say, i also would love to see a change but i cant imagine how a SBMM could make it better. I bought Cold War and this Game is a mess because of SBMM. Having some bad vibes about SBMM as many other Players too.
In my initial Post i delivered a possible fix to the balance issues. I mean this has to be done before BHVR introduces SBMM. I am sure SBMM wont work without what i said in my initial Post. (Just scroll down on my Post). Also Dowsey said that too and i believe this is the Key to a truly balanced Game/Matchmaking.
0 -
Hopefully it neve see's the light of day.
From what I've heard from a friend about cod modern warfare, it has basically killed his love for that game.
1 -
Wait I'd get better teammates and still verse the usually sweaty survivors when playing killer? Seems like a win in my books.
0 -
Your example:
Survivor A : 976
Survivor B: 1100
Survior C: 734
Survivor D: 1490
Killer: 1075
Still sounds a lot better than survivors with 3000 hours and killer who got the game yesterday
0 -
Skill does Not necessarily refer to the hours played. Survivor D could also have 5k hours, while the Killer could have 1-2k hours or even less. Or Survivor C could have 2k Hours, while Survivor D could have 6k hours.
As i said the hidden MMR does not refer to the Total Time spent playing.
0 -
I don't really know if this system will mess a lot with balancing in games, but as the system is right now, having red ranks filled with survivors with 200 to 8000 hours is awkward. My only hope is that queues don't become terrible, because late night/early morning queues are terrible both for killer and survivor. I don't feel this game has a decent enough playerbase to implement something as mmr and dividing the playerbase in different queues like ranked and normal queues is gonna mess with the times and leave this game like what overwatch is to dps right now.
imo this game right now is as okay as it can get in the current state it is; adding a competitive system given the ammount of crashes, dcs with almost no penalty, bugs and ######### you get every other game I'd suggest behaviour add some qol or actually fixing their extremely old bugs like survivors not doing any sound while downed, inconsistent audio when trying to check gens past walls or different levels, as in midwich you hear a 80% gen completely okay between floors but basement gens in both springwood and haddonfield don't do any sound unless you stand in front of the stairs or actually go down, deadhard working different on console and pc, pallets still not stunning consistently, perks like MoM not registering protection hits even if the killer is carrying a survivor, getting stuck with invisible textures while running close to walls both as survivor and killer, being fatshamed by trees in macmillan/red forest...
how the ######### do you expect this game to add a competitive ranking system with this shitshow running so frequently.
0 -
"As you can see, the average MMR Rating of the Survivors equals the MMR of the Killer. This is the understanding or the MMR System for a Balanced Match. In reality this is more unbalanced than what we have now (a Rank System)."You lost me right here.
What you just illustrated, is exactly how the current rank based matchmaking works, only with ranks instead of MMRs. The problem is, there isn't always a killer right in the middle, or the average of the survivors ranks. So it grabs the next nearest killer, up to 6 ranks either way...
Do you understand the implications for SBMM here?
Depending on the MMR ranges, your example could end up looking more like...
Survivor A: 976Survivor B: 1100Survivor C: 734Survivor D: 1490Killer: Anywhere between 475 and 1675 (with an average of 1075)Matchmaking isn't going to be anymore precise than it currently is, not without drastically inflating queue times. What will (or should) change, is the inconsistencies between player skill and their rank, people who smurf, people who get carried far too high than they should be, people who got reset five times down to 17 when they're really a red rank, etc. It will (should) eliminate all of those.
0 -
No it is not really chaotic match. it would be a killer sided match
A team with:
Survivor A: 976
Survivor B: 1100
Survivor C: 734
Survivor D: 1490
Because DBD is team based game., this does not equal 1075 MMR team. This 734 MMR team. The reason being is that killer will chase survivors and realize that survivor D is far stronger then rest and Survivor C is 734 so he will just target 734 player because survivor C probably doesn't know where pallets are in a chase and will be easy to defeat in a chase. so player C and A will just die fast and survivor D/B will be playing 2 vs 1 in ~4 minutes
When they create MMR for survivor, the team members need have same number. if killer has like 1000 MMR, survivors need be between 900-1100 MMR. Ignoring SWF that can usually organize in such a way that stronger player always goes first.
It is extremely rare that a high mmr player can solo carry a team. It can happen on very strong maps vs weaker killers because... take for example haddonfield, if killer finds survivor D right away but does not find out about survivor C and A that they're weak players(he does not find in the match) than player D can solo carry match if the killer is very weak and decides to chase survivor D in the for the entire match as survivor C/A do generators.
The other important note is that if a killer skill-level reaches certain threshold on a powerful killer like killer MMR is 1300. If that player plays Nurse or Spirit at 1300 MMR level, he will not notice skill-difference between survivors in a chase because both the 1490 player and 1100 can go down in 30 seconds just as fast as 734 & 978 player would. so from killer perceptive, if the killer is strong, he cannot really tell difference individual in chase between strong player and weaker player. The only aspect he can tell is if the team is fast at generator or slow at generators in term of overall team strength.
problem 2 and problem 3 seem like excuses. deranking/purposely playing weak killers will just result in you losing. its almost practical waste of time because you'll just go back to high MMR very rapidly in like 3 matches when you pick up your game. The whole point of ranking systems is to have equally skilled matches so if your good than you will have sweaty matches. Part of gratitude of playing DBD is ecaping the impossible(as survivor) and beating strong teams as killer. The irony behind killer is.... that 80% of killers have no chance to win due to being weak and irony behind survivor is that many of killers are auto-wins when your team is equally skilled(no challenge). so survivor end up being a relaxing experience.... where as killer end up being frustrating/defeated experience due to lack of possiability to win certain teams.
0 -
killer op in the high ranks and troubled in the red ranks? but are you sure you play dbd?
0 -
i said killer is op in low ranks and swf is op in high ranks/red ranks.
0 -
SBMM matches were my favorite matches because all survivors I played with were at least using 40% of their effort, which is 5x as much as normal matches go.
without SBMM I'm just always waiting to see how another survivor is going to completely screw every single other person's chance of survival.
0
