Genuine question to people who believe Wraith is balanced
What is the actual counterplay to Bamboozle + Shadow dance?
You know the combination basically every wraith uses. Bamboozle is the #1 perk I see wraiths using and it's pretty obvious why
Inquiring minds would like to know.
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Wraiths use shadow dance and bamboozle? Since when?
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Since wraith was buffed, 90% of the wraiths I've been against (which is a lot I want to add) all used bamboozle.
A lot of them also use it with shadow dance as well, so you have NO options at any tile that has a pallet/window.
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Keep an eye out for his glimmer? Pay attention to your surroundings. Use strong tiles and pallets? Lightburn his since he is very susceptible to that? Also what games have you been playing? Because I have never seen a Wraith use that combo before. It's usually just speed add-ons.
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I play at red rank, just for clarification and I see the majority of wraiths using Bamboozle and it's the most boring thing imaginable
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Such a weak combo that's easy to counter. It's not even the strongest he can be. Hit and run is his strongest strat.
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Long loops and loops with double windows. Sure on some loops it's a guaranteed hit, but so is a Billy with Enduring + Spirit Fury on a pallet loop, or Huntress on a short loop. Besides that, this combination was always possible even before Wraith's buff, don't know why you're bothered by it now.
Edit: not to mention I've never seen a Wraith using Bambozlee...
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I would've complained about the coxcombed clapper, personally. That thing makes him completely uncounterable in indoor maps.
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Explain what the counter to it is, that's why I made this thread in the first place
To be clear, I never said this was the strongest thing imaginable, I just don't believe it's balanced or fun to go against.
Because I've had to go against it like several games in a row for several weeks now and I don't think there's any skill involved on the Wraith's part. You just vault any window the survivor could use.
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You counter bamboozle like you always have. It's worse on wraith because he has to uncloak immediately after the vault for value. IDK what you're complaining about.
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Pallets, he still gets obliterated by throwing down pallets and efficint gen pressure. Also chaining tiles when possible.
Wraith's chase power is nowhere near actual good chase killers.
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To my knowledge you counter bamboozle by either leaving the loop or dropping the pallet immediately right?
You can't leave the loop because the wraith catches up insanely quickly
You give him the pallet and he breaks instantly with shadow dance addons
So...What's left?
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Wraith is probably the most balanced killer in the game currently. The other option is blight, though his mechanic is difficult to use on console so I try not to use him as a metric to compare other killers on.
That combination of add-ons and perks means that he is strong against windows, but isn't that strong against pallets. It also means that you can still mindgame him around short pallets or areas with multiple windows.
Also, abuse pallet tech if you have to and force him to unclock at pallets if he is cloaking after every pallet drop. This is where you repeatedly vault while he is cloaked so he cant break the pallet. He has to uncloak to force either a hit or to get the pallet break and then reclock to chase. Great time waster. The main problem with Wraith currently is 70% of people have no idea what to do against him.
Also, I have never seen this combination on Wraith. When I play as him or against him shadow dance is common but not bamboozle.
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This is where shadow-dance comes into it, you pre-drop pallets, he breaks it in 1 second then catches up with his insane speed
Well I wish I was you, because almost every wraith I face (which, again to stress - is a LOT) over 50% of them have bamboozle.
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It's Wraith, he's the simplest killer in the game. Go to a pallet and loop like normal. If he has bamboozle, he'll get you with it once and then you'll be aware of it for the rest of the match.
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That's really only useful on long-medium & long loops, or loops that no longer have a Pallet.
Too much time is wasted on uncloaking if the Survivor pays attention to the shimmer to know if the Wraith vaulted or not.
Red ranks must be weird, i know i wouldn't run that inconsistent combination, not for that purpose at least.
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That's why you loop it first.
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Shadow dance isn't as common as Bamboozle, for me but I still see it a lot
It's harder than it sounds because he'll either bodyblock the pallet then hit you with the uncloak speed boost (Which some wraiths are insistent on using at every single tile) or you try to leave the tile and do some shift + wing (which case, he catches up in 2 seconds due to his immense speed once again)
Pre-dropping is the safest bet, but shadow dance renders that kinda pointless as well
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Why would you drop the pallet when he's cloaked? Just give it another loop.
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If he is cloaked you can spam vault a pallet and he is unable to break it
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You wouldn't, normally.
But if you're in a common tile that has a window and the window is blocked - you're kinda screwed either way. From what I've seen the uncloak speed burst can net you hits in MOST shorter loops but I've not 100% tested all of them.
I never considered this as an option before, I'll try it in the future. Thank you and the other person who mentioned it.
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I main Wraith so I naturally don't want him nerfed.
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I'm not asking for him to be nerfed with this thread
I'm simply asking what are survivors meant to do against certain unfun combinations that I come across a lot. The intention of the thread wasn't 'nerf wraith' it was 'so this is annoying me, what do I do?'
Killers should be strong, I'm not advocating for nerfs. Tweaks sure.
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A flashlight. A flashlight is the ultimate counter to the whole Wraith. One flashlight in the team, and Wraith can't use his power for the rest of the game.
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Wanna know a counter. Flashbangs. They're bullshit to go against as wraith.
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Yeah no #########. That goes for any killer that's good. Or do you simply counter killers like blight who are better at everything wraith does (besides stealth) without much thought or risk to it.
You need to adjust to his gameplay, read how he plays, mimdgame and all that. Ofc it isn't simple, otherwise it wouldn't be fun. And in the end he's still mostly M1 killer, nowhere near as hard as outchasing spirit, slinger, nurse, blight, oni etc
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Sorry but in my opinion this is blatantly not true
A good wraith can dodge flashlights extremely easily mainly because he moves so bloody quickly while cloaked and survivors move slow as a snail while aiming their flashlight
This is not factoring things like re-appearance addons which make lightburning him even harder
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If I knew what the 'counter' or 'right play' was against these combinations I wouldn't be asking this question to begin with.
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Bambozlee only affects one window at a time. There are a lot of things survivors do in chase that also are unskillful, so I don't think that's a fair argument.
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Bambozlee only affects one window at a time, it doesn't automatically delete a loop. There are a lot of unskillful things survivors do in chase so I don't think that's a good argument.
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Listen, the point isn't 'oh bamboozle op'
The point is bamboozle severely limits your options even more so when you factor in the fact Wraith moves insanely quickly so moving to another tile usually will result in them getting a free hit or a free pallet. Which is a net positive in both cases for the killer
I'm not looking to make this into a whataboutism thread, I'm genuinely trying to figure out an answer to the question.
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At that point your best bet is to go watch good survivor players who stream their gameplay against wraith with this combination. Here, nobody will give you straight simple answer that work consistently every time, just general tips.
I doubt you'll find better way to learn counterplay to anything other the figuring it out yourself or watching others who did so.
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That's the problem though because like I've said, I face this killer and these particular things quite a lot and I still don't really know any concrete method of 'countering' it
And don't get me wrong, I don't die to this stuff every time - I just don't feel very accomplished when I win against it either because I don't feel like it had much to do with my own skill (For example, getting broken maps or set ups that literally anyone apart from nurse/spirit would struggle)
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I get what you're saying but that's just nature of DBD. As survivor, you're just 1/4th of a team, you aren't mean to have consistent ways to counter something, otherwise killers would lose every single game if all 4 survivors each could consistently counter their chase.
You rely on your teammates playing optimally before killers gains enough pressure to kill you all. Some are easier to beat in chase (legion) then others (spirit) but ultimately, no good killer power will have consistent way of avoiding it or outplaying it, you got to take risks every now and then and with some stronger, you just lose if they get close enough and have LOS.
That's the nature of DBD, everything you do matters even when you don't feel like it. Just making it hard for the killer is more then enough.
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