Mechanics to counter hook camping
I have suggestion for mechanics to counter hook camping.
The idea is like the executioner, when he sends survivors to the cage and doesn't know the location, unless he stumbles across it. So what would happen is that killer X (any killer) hooks survivor, then hook goes into the ground and comes up in a another location on the map. The survivors see the hooked survivor aura as usual but the killer doesn't. This gives survivors a chance to get to the hook and safely unhook their teamate.
This would not be OP because survivors trying to block the killer would lose out, as they would be some distance from the hook, so would attempt body blocking less.
Comments
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I am strongly in favour of anti-camping mechanisms, but I don't think this one is the right one.
The problem is that the survivor could be transported closer to another survivor, which would make the rescue very quick and very easy, greatly reducing the value the killer gets out of hooking someone, even if they weren't going to camp in the first place. This idea would, sadly, cause a lot of collateral damage to killers that are trying to play normally, so I don't think this is a good idea.
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I think this is a pretty bad idea. There are some cases where the spot the killer decides to hook you can decide the game. I don’t just mean the basement I also mean if there’s a hook in the middle of a good 3 gen. Removing the killers ability to strategically choose where to hook a survivor would be really unfair.
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There's actually already a mechanic in place! Just go do gens and leave!
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The whole point of a killer being able to choose the hook to put the survivor on is so the killer can pick a hook that is in an area he wants to defend. Being able to watch both the hook and not give survivors a free unhook while also pressuring nearby gens and totems is simply a valid tactic killers can do.
Survivors just need to stop seeing unhooks as something that needs to be free. The killer has every right to defend hooks since they are a survivor objective.
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Yeah. Imagine hooking someone in the EGC, and their hook teleports in front of the opened gate.
Free unhook AND escape! That's a 'no' from me for OP's idea.
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It's funny to me that the counter arguments for this suggestion basically boil down to, "No, then I couldn't choose the spot where I would like to camp the survivor."
But I do agree that camping hooks is for better or worse an intended mechanic.
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That's because strategic hook placement is part of securing kills mid- and end-game. Only salty Survivors ignore that.
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I think it would be better if there was something similar to Steve's Comradarie that would be put in effect when a killer camps. So like if a killer is within a certain set range of the hook, the hook timer pauses or goes MUCH slower which would result in them losing all 5 gens. That way they can't face camp, but proxy camping might still work.
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NO!
This was tried; Survivors abused it. It's also suggested once a freaking week to try again. And Survivors would abuse it again.
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As a base mechanic in the game, absolutely not.
But, like PH's cage of attonement, it could have some place as a Perk.
Entity's Favour: If hooked on a non-basement hook, when on your first hook state, an attempt to unhooked yourself will instead transport you to a random non-basement hook and consume 200%/175%/150% of your life gauge. The hook you were originally placed on will be broken for 30 seconds.
This has a cost (consumes more life gauge than an unhook attempt and replaces an unhook attempt) and is not entirely under your control (you could end up on the next closest hook which might not help much), plus the killer has a work around (hooking you in the basement).
But it could make for a pretty nifty unhook build: Slippery Meat, Deliverance, Entity's Favour and then your choice of Up the Ante, Resurgence, breakdown, etc. Slippery Meat gives you extra unhook attempts, Deliverance might give you a 100% unhook attempt, so you get hooked, realise you're being camped, and unhook yourself, you get transported away from the killer, and still have enough gauge left to unhook again, and successfully escape the hook away from the killer.
Post edited by Seraphor on0 -
Yeah sorry but this is definitely a horrible idea. There's a reason why P-heads cages do that(also it wasn't there when he first came out) its because being unhooked from a cage doesn't activate any defense perks that survivors have so no DS or BT or comradery either as far as I'm aware but tbh idk about that one since I've never seen it used in my games or at least its never had an impact on my games. Not too mention P-head can hook you instantly without having to pick you up and carry you to a hook so there is no possibility of a flashlight save or body blocking.
So yes this would be OP because when you body block your intention is to not allow the killer to hook the person they are carrying if they reach the hook and manage to actually hook them you have already failed and have likely given the killer multiple health states for free and if you try to unhook in their face you are very likely to go down and give the killer a free farm even with BT.
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There should be some built-in mechanism to fight camping, but like others have said, I don't think this would work, as much as I wish it would. I think personally the simplest solution is just, to be silly, an "entity doesn't like you watching" rule. If the killer is too close to hook, the timer won't go down, or goes down at half speed. That suffering is for her and her alone, Bubba! Go kill someone else.
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' If the killer is too close to hook, the timer won't go down, or goes down at half speed'
For the 500th time; this was tried. Survivors abused it.
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You have a survivor on hook, another survivor is around. You chase the other survivor. Results:
You down the survivor coming for the save. You now have two people on hook. Good job.
You can't down the other survivor, the hooked survivor doesn't die. This is you unable to win a chase, not survivor abuse.
You chase the other survivor away from the hooked survivor to down them, letting survivors get the unhook, which is normal gameplay.
You refuse to chase and camp, and survivors do gens. This is normal gameplay.
I don't see how it can be abused, but please do elaborate. Even in this situation, you can still harass the people coming for saves and even get downs. All it does is prevent you from facecamping eternally and being rewarded.
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Fine. Here we go again.
Survivor #4 is hooked. Survivor #3 works on gens.
Survivors #1 & #2 go to the hook. They stand in opposite directions. They also stand far enough away that the Killer cannot start a Chase. The game now thinks the Killer is camping.
The Killer moves towards #1; #1 moves away, so no Chase starts. #2 moves towards the hook. Killer resets at hook. Survivors reset to their positions. Game still thinks Killer is 'Camping' and no Survivors are nearby, because Survivors are too far away for the game to say 'There is a Chase!'
Same if he goes after #2.
The Killer now has 2 choices:
- Commit to a chase. This will give the unchased Survivor an unhook, even if the Killer does not want this.
- Keep camping; Hooked Survivor is immune to dying, so Generator Survivor has infinite time to do gens.
The Killer's choices are basically: Give free unhook, or throw the match. It was a lose/lose choice that he was forced into making.
At this point; I don't care if people say 'I don't see how it can be abused' because guess what? It was tried and it was abused.
Literally, this idea existed in game, and it was abused EXACTLY like I just wrote it. So I don't care if short-sighted Survivors 'can't see it being abused' because what they 'can't see' (or more likely, IGNORE) has 0 bearing that it. Was. Abused.
It's not coming back. There will be no pausing or slowing the hook timer, because SURVIVORS ABUSED THAT MECHANIC.
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It does suck to be faced with that situation, but in a normal game if two survivors have to go for the save, you're already putting out a lot of pressure and you're doing well. Think of it like this: even in that situation where you have to essentially give up the hook, you are trading it out for the other survivor's hook state. That's progress for you. Even in that situation, the survivors had to put themselves at risk, and you got something out of the camp (injuries, or even a down). You can even still grab someone when they try to unhook. The only thing that doesn't happen is one poor survivor getting screwed out of actually playing the game.
I do think fully stopping it would be the wrong call, I just think proxy camping and especially face camping should be a last resort because it's not fun gameplay and this game is supposed to be fun. The change would encourage more chases, encourage more interaction with all players in a match, and generally make the game more dynamic. It would make it slightly harder for killers who play around the hook, but I think, honestly, it should be harder than it is, given how powerful it can be.
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You encourage chases by ENCOURAGING them, not punishing the Killer.
And Survivors were far enough away that the Killer is giving up an unhook to start a 3 minute chase that he would probably have to leave to pressure gens, not counting the myriad of second-chance perks that are meta these days.
The Killer has a right to secure his kill as killing is his objective.
His objective is not asking the Survivors if they played enough, or had enough fun. He's not part of a questionnaire where Survivors are asked 'was the Killer mean?'.
His objective removes Survivors from the game. All these punishment ideas are based on the same erroneous thinking; that the Killer should not be allowed to kill them until they have had <x> fun.
'I did not get to play!' Yes you did; you got to try to Kobe, and you had the Struggle Mechanic. This warcry of Survivor mains actually means 'I did not get to complete gens & escape'. They considering being hooked 'Not playing' in the same way they say 'NoED rewards losing' because they think popping 5 gens is 'winning'.
Give hooked Survivors 'Distraction' points if the Killer camps. Give the Killer more strong perks that reward leaving the hook. But JFC, DO NOT PUNISH A TACTIC JUST BECAUSE YOU DON"T LIKE IT!
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I recognize that you are passionate about this man, but maybe take a moment to relax. Sitting on hook and pressing a button a few times isn't gameplay. Chasing is gameplay. Looping is gameplay. IDC if none of the gens get finished if I'm at least having fun running around. Even dying at the end to NOED doesn't really matter as long as the chases were actually enjoyable.
I wish the various "encouragements" we already had worked, I really do. People point to BBQ and No Way Out as an example of something healthy but the number of killers with BBQ that still play like this is not insignificant. And the game already punishes you for camping with a hit to your emblem status, which obviously doesn't work either. That's why so many people are trying to think of active mechanics to combat it.
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But there's nothing to 'combat'. The devs have said camping is a strat.
It's like saying 'being sniped first in a Battle Royale means I can't play. We should punish snipers!' But sniping is a strat to win 'But it removes people from the game! So the devs are wrong and it should be punished!'
And, once a week, like clockwork, some Survivor scampers onto these forums to suggest 'slow down/stop the timer' like it's never been thought of.
And the last one to do so basically said 'it punishes camping, so it does it's job'. They ignored every problem with it, including that it's abuseable, because all they cared about was the end result; camping being punished. So they were fine with EVERY problem that arises from it.
But the bottom line is; the Killer's job is to remove you from the game. He does not have to ask you if you had fun first. He does not have to ask your permission.
If people can't handle that their opponent can remove them from the game 'before they had enough fun' (like fun can be measured or has a quota), then why are they playing a PvP game where their opponent can remove them from the game?
Camping is not the problem; people being unable to accept losing are the problem. They can't comprehend that they may not be gods at this game, so it was CLEARLY a 'broken strat' that got them killed. And CLEARLY this 'broken strat' needs to be removed, so they can play like the gods of DBD they know they are.
Except, if camping were somehow removed, these same people would die to something ELSE, and claim THAT tactic is 'broken' or 'unfun' (look at every 'nerf <x>' thread), because it's NEVER their fault when they lose! They are DBD gods! So remove anything that does not let them play to their godly best!
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To avoid a camping time :
1st. hook > 1st. death = no P1-P2 P3 state & no hook camping...
But trial needs 3 x more survivors and altruism will not exist anymore...
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I appreciate everyone's feedback, it's all valid and interesting responses. I have a new proposal which I post as a new discussion.
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