Nemesis is ridiculously weak right now (low C tier)
Alright, a while back I said Nemesis was in B tier, but opinions change as time goes on. The more I play Nemesis the more I realize just how wrong I was. Let's get some things out of the way before I dive into why Nemesis is EXTREMELY weak.
- This is assuming you are at least decent with Nemesis and assumes you have multiple perks unlocked and are using them
- This assumes you also use addons that are strong
- Finally, this assumes that you get a balanced map
Alright, now we're ready.
Nemesis SUCKS, like REALLY BAD. He's worse than Myers (stronger than trapper obviously). Time to break down what makes him weak.
- He gets punished for using his power.
- Tiering up without addons takes forever
- His addons are ######### for the most part
- His zombies and tentacle are largely inconsistent
Successful tentacle strikes allow survivors to Hold W for longer. It doesn't help that It takes 3 hits to down survivors with your tentacle. The extra health state is one thing, but the speed boost is another problem altogether. He tiers up extremely slowly without addons. Tier 2 is no problem, (2 hits) but tier 3 takes extremely long to get to. Now If this sounds a lot like your typical Myers game you'd be right EXCEPT Myers at least gets an instadown.
Nemesis's addons are like... really bad. The only good ones are the depleted ink ribbon and zombies speed addons, along with the mutation rate addons. You shouldn't have to run mutation rate addons in the first place. They should be a bonus, not mandatory.
Nemesis's Tentacle also sucks because it can't hit over most loops (MOST) and has a very small hitbox (easy to dodge). There are SOME exceptions, but for the most part, you're ######### out of luck. His tentacle also doesn't reach very far even at tier 3 (6 meters). That's slightly longer than a Tier 3 Myers lunge. Except Myers doesn't need to spend the whole game stalking to reach tier 3 once, doesn't need to hit survivors 3 times, and doesn't give the survivors a speed boost for using his power. See why he's so weak now? Also side note: Nemesis can't correct his tentacle strike last second like huntress. Another downside.
Zombies are also inconsistent. Some games they're good, some games they're bad. I don't really care about the zombies, that's not what Nemmy's strength should be anyway.
All in all, Nemesis is #########. Change my mind.
Comments
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I disagree. I'd say he's a pretty solid killer overall, I'd rate him at, probably, about an A.
I'm not sure what you mean with 'gets punished for using his power'. If you're talking about the injury dash when first infecting someone, it's a bit of a trade-off. Either you become really difficult to loop against, or the survivor has to give up some of the time they won to use a vaccine. In the long run, I don't think the infection speed boost is actually all that relevant.
I have little trouble building up mutation, though to be fair, rank 2 is where all the value lies and rank 3 isn't all that important. I need to remind myself to go to rank 3 sometimes for a challenge, otherwise I end up forgetting. I do wish that tentacle hits on infected survivors would grant a bit of progress though, that'd be fair, I think.
I really don't mind his add-ons. I don't think he needs much power in his add-ons, I think his basekit is pretty solid all around, so having strong add-ons on top of that might push him to be OP.
His tentacle has been pretty reliable to me, but yes, his biggest issue is zombie AI having some... Problems.
Nemesis's Tentacle also sucks because it can't hit over most loops (MOST) and has a very small hitbox (easy to dodge). There are SOME exceptions, but for the most part, you're [BAD WORD] out of luck. His tentacle also doesn't reach very far even at tier 3 (6 meters). That's slightly longer than a Tier 3 Myers lunge. Except Myers doesn't need to spend the whole game stalking to reach tier 3 once, doesn't need to hit survivors 3 times, and doesn't give the survivors a speed boost for using his power. See why he's so weak now? Also side note: Nemesis can't correct his tentacle strike last second like huntress. Another downside.
If Nemesis could smack over loops, I think he'd be way too oppressive. He's already really tough to pallet or vault against due to the risk of getting smacked. If he could go through walls and obstacles with it, he'd just be a flat out better Pyramid Head.
The reason he can't adjust his tentacle 'last second' like Huntress is because there's almost no delay when firing the tentacle. You aim, you click, it fires almost instantly, whereas the huntress winds up a little bit. You can absolutely make snap tentacle shots and I made one teabagger ragequit when I caught her dodge with a snap turn. Also, the hitbox does linger for a split second, during which you can strafe to adjust the direction. If he could turn during this time, you could make a wide sweep and basically never miss.
Zombies are also inconsistent. Some games they're good, some games they're bad. I don't really care about the zombies, that's not what Nemmy's strength should be anyway.
This is really the only big problem Nemesis has. I've been lucky enough to not have tree-hugger zombies, so they've been very helpful to me. You should care more about the zombies when playing as Nemesis, because those grubby little hands stretching out will give you some valuable intel. I've tracked many a survivor simply by relying on the zombies' detection ranges. They're not super accurate, but they will alert you to a general presence.
And then there's the occasional MLG pro-strat zombie that just smacks a survivor mid-chase.
I think the zombies just need their AI fixed so they don't nav into the middle of whatever obstacle they can find, effectively freezing them indefinitely.
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Nemesis is a decent killer. He's solid on both indoor and outdoor maps. You need to know when and how to use his Tentacle Strike. Use them when a survivor vaults a window/pallet or drops a pallet, if they try to fake it then use that opportunity to M1. He's a powerful zoner.
If the survivor you infect holds W after the speed boost, go infect someone else.
His zombies are not meant to damage survivors, they're meant to push people off gens and healing actions, and can be used as a tracking utility. Their AI is quite cranky, I agree, but they aren't useless.
It's easy to tier up if you infect multiple survivors in the early-game, I can get to tier 3 after 1 gen gets done.
I agree that his add-ons suck balls though.
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The speed boost from initial infection is relevant. At the bare minimum, it adds 10 seconds to the chase (MINIMUM). Nemmy does have a tentacle windup, and it's made pretty obvious when he pulls it out (jeez that sounds dirty). Pyramid head is just better when dealing with windows/pallets because he can hit through walls and huntress hatchets can hit over more tiles than Nemmy's tentacle. There's also another thing. You can't mindgame survivors with Nemmy. You just can't. If the survivor is at least decent they'll hear your loud ass footsteps, and at lower loops, see you because you're so damn tall. I just can't put him anywhere above low C tier.
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No you guys don't seem to understand he is a slow paced killer. He is weak at the beginning, but once you reach tier 2 he becomes great. You got to try to build up his power as early as possible. I usually win when I level up his power. And the majority of the times when I lose as him, it's when I did not build up his power. You basically have to slow the game as him, hit them as early with the whip to build up the power and hopefully run out of vaccines. Once they have no vaccine and they are infected they pretty much can't do much, no looping is safe after tier 2 since he can get easy hits over pallets and windows.
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If the survivor holds W, you've essentially lost a chase and are wasting time looking for someone else. LOSE LOSE scenario.
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You were able to infect them though, allowing you to use your Tentacle Strike to damage them the next time you encounter them (unless they waste their time on using a vaccine).
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And once you reach tier 2 he becomes a beast. And when they run out of vaccines it's hard to loop him.
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You literally tried to address all of our claims with "You don't seem to understand he is a slow paced killer". What? No he isn't. He would be If there were no addons to speed up mutation rate, but...
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Yep, breaking pallets and breakable walls with Tentacle Strike is really useful and is often overlooked.
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And that takes FOREVER. They essentially get 8 free health states against this killer. That's why he's weak. Why should I play him over Myers? Myers is "slow paced" yet performs way better. Also has better addons.
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It's not overlooked. Far from it. Where are you guys getting this information?
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And you haven't even told us your build. LOL
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If you're taking forever on getting to tier 2, you must be doing something wrong.
Myers doesn't have the zoning, tracking, and anti-loop that Nemesis does.
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It's far from a waste of time because they'll just do the same ######### all over again. And once they vaccinate, they'll hold M1 on a generator until you come over to them. And now you have to hit them 3 TIMES.
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No, not about the tier 2. It's about depleting the survivors' vaccines. It's easy to get to tier 2.
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Maybe go for someone else while they use their time wasting up a vaccine?
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That's not helping you, that's hindering you. You've dropped chase, are wasting time doing NOTHING, you have 0 pressure at that time.
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Ah yes, you've just backed up my claim that Nemmy is very weak. Thank you for your time.
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Well why wouldn't you share it in public? Doubt you're the first person to use it.
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That is my point he is probably the slowest based killer in the game, even more than myers since myers becomes a one hitter. As you said it yourself it takes a long time to build up his power. Thus my point he is a slow based killer. But I don't know man he may not fit your playstyle. It's subjective I don't like to play certain killers such as wraith for example since I him boring, nemesis may not be fun to you. But myers can't hit over pallets or break them with his power, so I guess nemesis has that going for him.
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Being slow paced in a game like DBD where every second matters makes the killer weak. This has been proven time and time again with trapper. Except trapper can win games after setting up because each trap can be impactful if used well (he's still bad tho). Nemmy's setup just barely makes him.... effective in chase? Otherwise he's just a basic M1 killer.
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I think he’s B tier. He can be terrifying in tier 3 with how fast his tentacle hit cool down is in it. Moving to a side increases his tentacle’s hitbox. You also need to know when to go for an M1 and when to use the tentacle.
I completely agree with your points though. His tentacle is slower than Deathslinger’s harpoon but requires more precision? I’ve missed many hits that look good because I didn’t have perfect aim. All it takes is a little turn and you’ve dodged a normal tentacle hit. His Iridescent Umbrella Badge is the worst add-on in the game. I think the free health state+speed boost is an unnecessary restriction likely thrown on to protect newer players. Even if it isn’t, a dev said that they tested him without them and he was deemed overpowered so they most likely won’t change that (which is complete BS, the community, the people who have a much better idea how to play the game and the ones who made it this popular, should be the ones to decide that, not the devs). The latest update to his zombies destroyed their AI. It’s trash now. He could be so much stronger with just a few simple changes and if any Killer deserves that much strength, it’s Nemesis. He’s known for being strong!
This is my build. It’s working just fine for me. Of course it won’t work against good Survivors, but who will aside from Nurse, Spirit, and maybe Blight?
Also how is C tier extremely weak? C is supposed to be an average grade.
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Umm, about tier 3. It doesn't actually make you recover faster (which it should TBH).
I've always thought of B tier as average
C tier I've always thought of below average
A Is above average
S is Strong
SS is META.
As you can see, I use a very different form of rating killers.
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@Rez_Marsiel I think the reason why his mutation tiers are slow is because developers thought his tiers were extremely powerful like 5 token devour hope powerful. It seems they thought that nemesis infection was so powerful that they even gave it counter by putting chests for survivors vaccinate themselves and gave them sprint bursts when they get hit to help survive against nemesis longer.
I also imagine that they thought that Nemesis zombies would be getting lots of downs and that zombies would overwhelming survivors. that is why he has only 2 zombies.
I am not sure but I think they..... overestimated nemesis's power-level? The add-ons seem very rushed. none of them are about his T-virus infection or improve his tentacle whip. So yeah..... the nemesis is somewhat in rough spot. One can hope that he gets an add-on pass and rework that improves him for the better.
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This.
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Can we all agree that Nemesis is a weaker Demogorgon in every aspect? Zombies are the only things that are different between them and they're still not as good as Portals
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IMO he's a weaker Myers but yes, I agree with you.
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Not really. Portals are way worse for intel (If the zombie AI works), Demo has no passive pressure, and Nemesis' power is faster.
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He needs to be slower while getting ready to hit with the tentacle.
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Hes already slower than a Survivor while holding his Tentacle
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He's B-Tier solely because his power relies on RNG, much like Pig.
Unlike Pig the RNG can also be helped by skill and clever uses of your power.
Although the games where RNG isn't on your side, it ######### burns.
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Low C tier. Then we have an agreement.
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