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Why haven't the devs fixed "survivors DC'ing for hatch"
A simple solution has been suggested numerous times: if a survivor disconnects, their "husk" stays in the match and the Entity spike appears from the ground to take them (just like at the end of the collapse), before the hatch can open.
Instead of getting a hook, 3 sacrifices, and possibly a 4th, I got no hook, I got a kill instead of a sacrifice, and the 4th got away for free.
Survivors have been abusing this since the game's release... (SWF moreso)
What's the issue? What's stopping this feature from being implemented?
Comments
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The fact that I'm sure the game would be absolutely ######### in some way due to implementing this.
I mean, they managed to completely break Clown a few patches back by adding a new Killer.
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Because there's a flipside issue where the killer just downs survivor #3 and then hunts down survivor #4, effectively removing the hatch from the game. D/C is the only thing survivors have to fight back against this, and it's penalised anyway.
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Survivors would complain their exploit was removed. That is the main reason.
If the entity spiked the dcers husk at the same speed as a hook death there would be no reason to complain about it anymore. It would still be faster anyway since theyre not being carried to a hook.
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Okay, let's see.
@MandyTalk is DC'ing for Hatch an intended counter to slugging?
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It's not called 'fighting back' since the Killer has every right to try for a 4K, and DCing is against the rules. So it's called 'being a child' since someone DC'd to prevent the opponent from getting the win they are trying for.
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It's punished by a DC penalty. You are not supposed to disconnect anyway and the devs implemented a system to stop it. How much it does stop DCing is debatable but it's still there.
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DCing itself comes with a downside. There's really no reason for survivors to use this as a 'tech'. You're sacrificing all of your BP and a pip for another survivor to escape, who may not even pip themselves anyway. It's pointless. You're not gaining anything.
So likewise, there's no point getting salty about it as killer. Sometimes the last survivor gets the hatch, that's what it's for.
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A 5 minute penalty won't do much. Each member of the SWF gets two 5-minute penalties which reset daily, and SWF can spread the "penalty" amongst themselves (unless it just-so-happens that the survivor who keeps getting slugged at the end is the same person every time, and even then it would have to be 5 times in a row before they even feel the real effects of the penalty's 6-hour ban).
Killers slugging for 4k needs to be addressed in a different way, by giving survivors an option to bleed out faster. Survivors in the dying state can hold the sprint button. Doing so makes them bleed out faster and lets them crawl faster. (Tenactity would still allow the survivor to crawl faster, without the need to hold shift, but they can hold shift if they choose to bleed out faster.)
Post edited by Nos37 on3 -
DCing gets penalized. The Penalty is shared for all Survivors if they are in an SWF (which is the most likely reason why someone DCs to give someone else Hatch). The DCing person also loses all their BPs.
With that, they will not do it often. And honestly, for me it is such a non-issue. It happens so rarely. Yes, in an ideal world it would be fixed, however, the Devs have far more urgent things to do so this can be a low priority.
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What's the complaint here? I don't get it. A person that DCs gets punished for it. Besides getting absolutely nothing for the match they get locked out of matchmaking for a period of time. If you are right and they are doing that over and over again that punishment increases cumulatively. If you disconnect two games in a row you don't get two five minute time outs. Only the first is five. Players have complained here about 24 hour bans and I expect it goes even further than that.
That's the punishment, but you want to add in that the OTHER survivors who broke no rules whatsoever also should be punished while you get a free kill? Why would that be fair? Killer gets a free kill if a survivor DCs.
so, NO! You don't deserve free wins.
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My friend had three healthy survivors disconnect to give the fourth the hatch, and he was forced to waste his time looking for the thing because the fourth was just teabagging on top of it for no good reason like their three SWF buddies disconnecting at 4 gens left was some sort of win. My friend got very few points, no emblems. He had to wait in a queue for that?? The fourth one was no innocent. The three who disconnected were rank 20s, obviously just wanting to stay at that rank, while the fourth was a rank 8. Why did that rank 8 deserve a hatch escape?? Survivors get a good amount of BP just for getting out through the hatch. My friend made fewer than 2k points in that match.
Even the entity spikes wouldn't have solved that issue, but the DC penalty obviously isn't enough to stop obnoxious behavior. Stuff like what my friend experienced suggests these people probably have multiple accounts, so they can just do it until the penalty gets too long and then switch to a different one. The only ones who lose then are the killers who get saddled with their nonsense.
DCing to give someone the hatch is a bad mechanic. I've had the third survivor, immediately upon being downed, disconnect. I was going to hook them! Disconnects screw up Bloodpoints, they screw up achievements and Tome challenges, it's freakin' stupid how disruptive they still are and while there's a time-out penalty that doesn't do anything to mitigate their in-game effect.
To stop crap like my friend experienced, maybe killers should be able to open an exit gate once the hatch opens. That way they don't have to search the map for the dumb thing just to force a survivor out. It's not the first time I've seen that happen, and a lot of times the EGC would be quicker than locating the hatch.
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Such a lame mechanic and cheesy exploit, anyone who defends this is just delusional, might as well spawn hatch right next to the hatch camping survivor while you at it lol. Since when survivors should have a free escape just for losing lol. Survivors already got cheap hatch offerings and maps and keys with wall hacks and still dc for a friend can hop in the hatch just to be toxic and spite the killer.
so what the killer slug for the 4k, if its that common run anti slug perks and don’t die. Dcing for hatch is just plain lame and shouldn’t exist
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you got your 3 kills already you won too, it's a match you're gonna forget in 2 minutes and doesn't even happen commonly
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PULL THE PLUG, MOM - WE'RE FIGHTING BACK!
Solid counterplay.
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Because there is already a dc penalty system in place? That gives them a ban.
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So what? There's 4 Survivors to kill. Saying 'You got your 3 kills!' means absolutely nothing.
Worse; it's entitlement. You're saying the Killer is being selfish going for a 4K when there's 4 people to kill, as if one deserves to get away.
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because their is no way to fix that without punishing unintended incident
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There's nothing to be fixed. Yes, you can slug for a 4K if you like. But survivors can DC to give hatch if they like, and receive a 5 minute penalty for doing so. The person 'breaking the rules' isn't rewarded in any way. They get 0 BP for the whole match, and they didn't escape. They died. (DC = Death).
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Also pretty entitled to have the audacity to waste at least one persons time because someone thinks a 3K with Hatch escape is not already quite a clear win.
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No, it's part of the game. That's like going into an FPS and saying 'It's really entitled you want to score that 50th point. You already won at 49 points; just let the clock run out.'
The sheer entitlement of Survivors 'You got 3 kills; going for 4 is entitled! 🤪' Rofl. So many BS rules and expectations Survivor mains heap on Killers. Don't camp. Don't slug. Don't tunnel. Be happy with a 3K. Always let the 4th Survivor go.
This is the only game I've ever played where one side has literally invented an entire playbook they expect their opponents to follow, and then demand the devs alter the game to enforce it.
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I did not say any of this. But nice strawman.
I just said that it is entitled to waste someone elses time because you think that only a 4K matters. When I play Killer, I could not care less if the last Survivor gets a lucky Hatch escape.
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You're saying it's entitled of the Killer to waste people's time, because he should be happy with the 3K.
That is all you said. You can't attribute WHY someone did it to your argument, be it 'he thinks only a 4K matter' or 'He wants to be a troll'.
Your argument is that the Killer is being entitled if he does not let the 4th Survivor go, because another Survivor has to wait to bleed out.. I did not strawman that. You are saying the Killer is being selfish going for a 4K, because of HOW he went about it.
Again; that's peak Survivor entitlement. You're saying both 'wasting a Survivor's time' and 'Going for a 4K' are things the Killer should not do, because they affect a Survivor negatively.
No strawman there. Just pure entitlement that a Killer has to respect a SURVIVOR'S time and a SURVIVOR'S escape, because they say so.
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Your analogy doesn't really work her. In you're scenario there's a set timer and therefore you trying to rake up the score doesn't was anyone's time. Slugging for the 4k does.
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Huh?
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If the killer isn't supposed to care about getting a 4k, the game shouldn't reward the killer a Bloodpoint bonus for no escapes. If the devs don't want people to play a certain way, they shouldn't reward points for it. Like, if they don't want two or three survivors to go immersed instead of working on gens, the hatch shouldn't award bonus Bloodpoints.
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I did not say that the Killer should not care about the 4K. Why do you try to twist my words? I said that I (which means: only I, myself, my own opinion) dont care for the 4K. I rather get the 3K, the Survivor might be lucky to get Hatch and I still won the game. If others want to sweat for the 4K and slug and waste everybodys time, they should do it, but not expect anyone to like it.
And well, my fix for Hatch (which I proposed long ago when actual Hatch Stand Offs would have still been a thing) would have been to count a 3K with Hatch Escape as a 4K for the Killer, both in Emblems and Points. In theory, there would be no need for the Killer to slug or go for the Hatch Standoff at this point, since they got their points and Emblems like if they killed the 4th Survivor.
However, after reading this Thread, I am quite sure that people would still have slugged and do Hatch Standoffs, just because they want that 4K, completely irrelevant of the points.
But eh, I get it, Killers good, Survivors bad. Only Survivors can be entitled.
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I did not say that the Killer should not care about the 4K. Why do you try to twist my words?
But... you said (and I'm quoting):
it is entitled to waste someone elses time because you think that only a 4K matters
The definition of entitled, "believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment," implies that it is a mindset a person should not have. You are applying that term "entitled" to all killers who "waste someone else's time," not just saying you yourself don't care about a 4k.
So, you are both saying 'it is entitled for the killer to waste someone else's time for a 4k' and 'it's okay for killers to want the 4k.'
I'm not trying to twist your words. I guess I'm just confused. So... then you're saying it's only okay to want the 4k as long as the killer doesn't inconvenience anyone to get it?
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Solo queue player who looks for next match ASAP: "4 boring minutes on the ground ... or 5 min penalty".
Well, the additional 1min penalty is not big deal for me ... and if the last one may have the hatch; this would be some tasty icey on the cake and very good laugh :)
Deal with it!
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He’s still not completely fixed even though his tome is currently active. Direct bottles slow like 50% of the time
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If I may, (and they can correct me if I'm wrong) but I think I get their point.
What I'm getting is that it's okay for a Killer to want a 4k, but at the same time, with the current system in place to achieve a 4k, it normally leads to situations that are pretty crappy for the Survivor (As nobody wants to be stuck sitting on the ground for 4 minutes- especially when you consider that the only perks to get yourself out of those situations are generally perceived as 'Meta' and get scorned, and depending on the situation, you probably can't even do gens or will die trying to get the last guy up, making it nothing but a lose-lose for Killer, in a similar way to attempting to tunnel a person with DS+UB is a lose-lose. Just, you know, as a base game mechanic.)
To add to it, the community feelings of dislike towards Survivor players and this idea of 'Us vs Them' on both sides, calling each other entitled leads to more hostility in-game as well, where there can be a really big feeling of '4k or no k' from Killers, in a similar way to Survivors who will throw because their teammate didn't let them get a chest, or will DC/Kill themselves on hook for missing DS. The amount of camping and tunneling that's been happening recently really doesn't help this feeling.
Sorry, I think I got rambly again, but my point is that I think the point of their post was more so that we should also acknowledge that 4k's should not be considered the end all, be all for Killers, and to consider the other side's experience a bit as well. I think the point was less of 'Don't inconvenience others', and more of 'I don't like being slugged for the 4k, so I won't slug for 4k.' Idea. (That's just what I got from it tho, as I usually do have the mindset of 'Don't do to others what you don't want done to you' so...)
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I couldn't tell you the reason it hasn't been implemented, but I can tell you that there is another solution that Survivors have been asking for for as long as I can remember, which is the option give up on the ground instead of waiting the full 4 minutes of the bleed out timer. Something that gives the Killers points, but also gives the Survivors a faster way to say 'It's over for me chief'.
Imho that in itself would be fine, and would have a secondary purpose as well. (Because I think we can all agree that those times where you have to wait out the bleed out timer/EGC timer because you lost your slug as Killer are awful. It would give both sides points still, and would let Survivors have a bit of a faster way out of those rare, but possible 'Killer slugging all 4 survivors and decides against hooking everyone to instead let them bleed out on the floor' scenarios.)
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How would you propose the system will differentiate between a strategic disconnection to give the last survivor hatch and a childish disconnection because survivor #3 is a crybaby that decided that if he doesn't escape his teammate should not escape either? Or is the idea to penalise the one who did nothing more than slug while the killer was chasing the crybaby?
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Not slugging for the 4k because they don't like being slugged for the 4k themselves, that's totally understandable, I get that. I'm the same way. Unless I'm doing a challenge or achievement, something that requires kills, I usually don't even care about kills much less a 4k.
But, at the same time, I get why people do it. I don't like being slugged, but a killer is supposed to kill and asking them to not play to the best of their ability because hey, there are things about this game I don't like so you should cater to me and my fun, well that's not fair. The game's mechanics and point system encourage certain tactics, including slugging for the 4k, and I'll say over and over that the mechanics and the point system need changing, but I don't put the onus of making sure I have fun on my opposition.
It's fine to play a certain way because you have empathy. It's fine to play a certain way because you like to win. It's fine to think the game mechanics need changing. But someone isn't entitled for playing to win in a video game. That's expected behavior. Entitled is when a player expects the other side to do something that goes against their best interests, like a survivor expecting the killer to give them the hatch or the killer expecting the final survivor to just give themselves up for the hook.
I'm so tired of the us vs them, killer vs survivor mentality. Everyone's playing the same [BAD WORD]ing game, and both sides need each other or else there is no game.
Sorry, this isn't necessarily directed at you. Or at least, I'm not arguing with you, because we seem to agree on things. I get rambly myself.
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Haha, no worries, you're good, and I definitely agree where your coming from! Honestly I think a lot of the 'Us vs Them' mentality mixed with entitlement from everyone is what causes so many of these issues to spiral out in the first place tbh, and I get aggrevated about it a lot as well, especially since it seems to be enforced heavily in discussions like these. (So many threads of people being called 'Fake Killer Mains' because they stated an opinion, or threads like these where the discussion came down to some sort of 'Killer vs Survivor Entitlement'. And man, the posts you'll see after a patch of 'They only wanna take away the good things from x side!')
Imho it creates a p bad breeding ground for hostility, and if it wasn't for that I think there'd be at least much more productive discussions around the game and ways to fix the issues at hand that effect everyone instead of just pointing fingers.
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I agree with this, and mentioned such a mechanic earlier in this topic
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There's a lot of killer weaknesses that need to be addressed but this also. They really need to nerf keys if anything too
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At one point the devs mentioned adding a bot in case a survivor DCs. I guess this will somehow fix this problem.
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