Legion Balance Feedback.
Hello developers,
I would like to make a post today regarding the new chapter.
I've played Legion for about ~50 games straight and I've tried most of his add-on combinations. I have also tried a lot of perk combinations for him, Not all of them however enough , and I've watched some famous streamers play him, however I can definitely conclude that Legion is too weak with exception regarding 1 add-on.
What's the problem?
The problem with legion stems from Deep Wound effect. Since Legion has slight reduction to his base movement speed(110% base), the player is naturally disadvantaged at succeeding in chases compare every other killer who starts at 115% movement speed. This means that in order to down players, you need rely on your deep wound status debuff. The problem is that there is virtually no way for Legion to accelerate Deep Wound status effect efficiently in a way that it benefits him. One strategy is to chase a survivor with ~1/4 of power bar and hit the survivor 4 times, however this takes too long and the survivor has already won the chase because he wasted so much time by forcing killer to self-stun himself 2 times+walk distance. Another suggested strategy is to moonwalk(Walk with your back turned on survivor) to lose a chase on purpose so that deep wound timer starts ticking. The strategy has two main issues, the first problem is that a survivor could hide from the killer making you waste a lot of time. Secondly, the survivor can ignore you and mend in front of objects such as pallets or vaults which leads to wasting a lot of time for the killer because he needs 4 hit to down a survivor.
TL:DR: Deep Wound status is too slow and regardless of your approach to improve your chances to down a survivor, Your reward is static. 4 hits=1 down.
Common Misconception: My legion has 4 killed players and other players have done this:
A famous streamer known as TrU3Ta1ent has successfully proven that it is possible to 4 kill players with Legion(15 times in a row). What people do not realize is that he is using a very special add-on that decreases amount of hits required to down a player using Feral Frenzy. It reduces hit count from 4->3 known as Frank's Mix Tape. This means that Legion deep-wound status effect becomes 25% stronger and he becomes 25% more efficient at downing survivors. Doing 4 kills without this add-on is almost impossible unless you severe outplay your opponent using normal attacks/mind games, which could be better done with virtually every other killer.
Common Misconception 2: "This killer power has no counter-play because he can vault pallets, windows at fast movement speed"
This isn't true. The counter to this killer is same for every other killer. Drop pallets to end his power prematurely. If you are at around ~5M away from the killer, you can actually outrun his Feral Frenzy using any survivor Exhaustion perk such as sprint burst. The Feral Frenzy timer is very short and leaves little margin for error. You can even attempt to mind-game him by crouching after he vaults, since he moves at such rapid pace, some Inexperienced killers may walk right past you because they are pressured by Feral Frenzy Timer.
My Suggestions for buffs:
Idea 1: Allow Feral Frenzy second hit to not give sprint burst after hitting a survivor, instead slow them their movement speed by certain amount. e.g 5%-10% slow.
Idea 2: Allow Deep Wound timer to decrease while during a chase.
Idea 3: Reduce Deep Wound Timer by 50% and add difficult skill-checks. Failing a skill check speeds up the timer and can down you if the timer is 0.
Any of these changes in my opinion would make Legion's power more viable. All of them either test the player skill or improve his game flow by significant margin so he can confirm downs with his power more consistency at faster rate. Only one of the change should be applied, Applying all of them would make a too strong for obvious reasons.
Few other notes I'd like to add that I've been experiencing after the patch that should be fixed.
Bug 1:
If Legion is in freezy mode and you use a pallet as survivor to stun him, The survivor will glide through the map and eventually stop after some time. There is also a chance that Legion's weapon animation will be glitched.
Bug 2:
The game will randomly freeze on loading creating infinity loading.(Unknown reason)
Comments
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Idea 1: Yes until the slow.
Idea 2: No. (you can already do that by just "not chasing"
Idea 3: What is the exact timer as of now? Also skill-checks yea ^^0 -
I'm for idea 2, with the condition that the survivor is hit with feral frenzy a second time.
The last in the chain of frenzy attacks is going to get focused down regardless, so between the stun, survivor speed burst, and the lack of scratch marks they have more than enough to make it to a LoS breaker and evade.
Allowing for the timer to tick down during a chase (after being hit twice by frenzy) would fix the perception that the killers power lacks teeth so to speak. And solve a lot of the complaints workout having to touch anything else like mending at 99% timer depletion.
Moon walking after a survivor as a tactic is the same principle, making this just a QoL change.
Milo above argued don't chase, but that is frankly an absurd notion. If you don't follow them and put pressure on them they will just mend. Example being if you frenzy 3 and don't chase 2 of them, they will not go down. If Milo meant don't enter chase, you're basically moon walking or chasing at a distance following a blood trail which is the same thing without the bongo drums playing.0 -
@azazer said:
I'm for idea 2, with the condition that the survivor is hit with feral frenzy a second time.
The last in the chain of frenzy attacks is going to get focused down regardless, so between the stun, survivor speed burst, and the lack of scratch marks they have more than enough to make it to a LoS breaker and evade.
Allowing for the timer to tick down during a chase (after being hit twice by frenzy) would fix the perception that the killers power lacks teeth so to speak. And solve a lot of the complaints workout having to touch anything else like mending at 99% timer depletion.
Moon walking after a survivor as a tactic is the same principle, making this just a QoL change.
Milo above argued don't chase, but that is frankly an absurd notion. If you don't follow them and put pressure on them they will just mend. Example being if you frenzy 3 and don't chase 2 of them, they will not go down. If Milo meant don't enter chase, you're basically moon walking or chasing at a distance following a blood trail which is the same thing without the bongo drums playing.Not chasing just means that your submitting to the timer of deep wound. It can work if you use green filthy blade+Purple add-on, but ask yourself this question. If you didn't wait for deep-wound timer, would you down a player faster if you just chased them normally. In most cases, this is almost always the case. It just feels like your playing Huntress with no hatchets right now with legion unless you use Franklin tape.
At rank 1, for where i play normally on PC, there's no way that you could possibly hook enough times before gens are finished without the tape. The reward is simply too static and too slow for the current state of the game. I'm just glad that rank reset recently. Until they make Deep Wound status pressure survivors into making a mistake or give a tactical advantage to Legion for applying it, Your better off using it to injure survivors only and outplaying them with proper chases.
@Milo said:
Idea 1: Yes until the slow.
Idea 2: No. (you can already do that by just "not chasing"
Idea 3: What is the exact timer as of now? Also skill-checks yea ^^I don't know exact value, but if you apply deep wound, the person will finish his mend at 75% of the bar without add-on. With add-on's, it's like 110% of the bar. so I'm guessing the timer is somewhere between 40-60 seconds.
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@Devil_hit11
While it is possible to down them before the timer expires, I don't think it's an every chase occurrence. against pre buff borrowed time I personally still had to chase some survivors until time wound down and I don't think you can honestly say that is an isolated experience.
Even if what you say is correct for the most part, that most chases end in a down before the timer is up, then my proposed change is simply quality of life. It gives the perception of a power that downs with no real disadvantage to the survivors. This perception of closing the deal in a chase using the power is all the killer needs to quiet most people's poor reception on legion.
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@azazer said:
@Devil_hit11
While it is possible to down them before the timer expires, I don't think it's an every chase occurrence. against pre buff borrowed time I personally still had to chase some survivors until time wound down and I don't think you can honestly say that is an isolated experience.
Even if what you say is correct for the most part, that most chases end in a down before the timer is up, then my proposed change is simply quality of life. It gives the perception of a power that downs with no real disadvantage to the survivors. This perception of closing the deal in a chase using the power is all the killer needs to quiet most people's poor reception on legion.I prefer Idea 2 two as well as I think moon-walking is unnatural way for killer to play. Maybe someone who plays legion for 6 months straight will eventually perfect this mechanic, however he would be alien to everyone who doesn't.
My idea 3 was that if you hit 3 people for example, those who aren't good at overcharge skill-checks will likely fail and down themselves giving some merit for his intended play-style. as no one really falls regardless of how many people you hit besides the survivor you chase.
Idea 1 In my head, I thought maybe the intended purpose of his power was suppose to be an information tool with heartbeat, like the pig's jigsaw head devices, but it still doesn't justify using his power if the only objective is to make your first hit it easier. you still need some benefit to confirm the down and he just doesn't have any.
In any case, no one knows why he was released in such a bad state, but I'm pretty sure that no one will play him without the tape. Who knows, maybe they will make the 3 hits down as the normal legion power, for how successful his tape version has been.
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