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Why is it *always* the killer's fault?
So, playing Lery's yesterday, the survivors are being super-immersive. Two gens go by and I'm struggling to find anyone.
Eventually find a Nea, and down she goes. I put her up on the hook in one of the long bathrooms.
No sooner had I left the room, she gets unhooked, so obviously I head back (had zero idea where anyone else was and there were at least two survivors by definition right nearby) and who runs into me... Nea! OK, you want a BT smack and it builds up my STBFL so OK... she gets smacked, and down she goes.
I've no idea where the rescuer went, no scratches, checked a couple of lockers, nothing. So I decide to DS test Nea - changing the obsession is good so I can smack the rescuer safely in case they were the obsession. She doesn't have it... so up on the same hook she goes.
On the way out of the bathroom now I see the scratches, and follow them... and lo and behold it's a would-be rescuer, Zarina. Chase them down and literally grab them as they were unhooking, and the game did this weird bug where I had grabbed them, but the unhook also happened?? So Nea is literally standing in front of the hook blocking it, so smacked her again and down she goes.
Zarina goes up on the hook, and I take the opportunity to put Nea up too (another two gens had gone in this time so down to 1 gen now)... Nea is dead, and Zarina is rescued whilst I was taking her to hook.
The rest of the game plays out and is several minutes of hide-and-seek, eventually they all die because of reasons.
In the end game chat, Nea is still around and immediately cries "tunnelling..."
Like, seriously?
1) She got unhooked unsafely as soon as I started walking away
2) She ran straight into me... maybe she didn't see which way I went because of the hooking animation taking over, but at least follow the rescuer then if you don't know?
3) She got unhooked second time literally in front of the killer (I grabbed the rescuer)
4) She didn't run/move at all after being unhooked and was blocking the hook, despite no BT and no DS (maybe she was stuck because of a bug in what happened, but she didn't mention that)
These are all survivor misplays in my book, but the cognitive dissonance for survivors is so overwhelming that it seems to convince them survivors can do no wrong and everything must be the killer's fault.
Why??
Comments
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Because many survivors are apparently under the illusion that they can do no wrong. They'll readily admit that they don't think that, but their actions betray their true feelings.
They can claim that they're fallible all day long, but when it comes to actually owning up to what went wrong, it's always someone else's fault, never their own. Their own fallibility is a mere hypothesis, a flight of fancy, not something that actually happens.
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It's not always the killers fault I've seen survivors blame their team mates.
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Yeah I was blamed for fake farming when someone ran behind me while injured I took a swing in hope of a trade or down missed hit the pallet and was accused of fake farming.
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it became tunneling the moment you didn't drop her again.
Going back when someone gets unhooked isn't tunneling. Hitting them cause you cannot assess if they're trying to take a bt hit or just got unfortunate with the direction pick isn't tunneling. picking them up for ds isn't tunneling.
But the moment you say 'okay, they didn't have bt, they didn't have ds or missed it, let's hook them again' that is tunneling. maybe swap stbfl for whispers or play more survivors to learn where to hide.
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The Nea shouldn't charge at the killer without BT and the rescuer shouldn't hide (and should definitely not farm the survivor instantly without BT and then hide)
I dislike tunnelling but if the situation is as OP described it both survivors seemed to be insisting on it.
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Judging from how the story is told it sounds more like Nea was body blocking with BT and got punished for it by the faster attack speed from STBFL. Which she did twice.
If you body block with BT its not tunneling when you are trying to force the killer to go after you.
You also kinda proved the OP's point where everything is the killer's fault and never the survivors the eyes of survivors.
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Every time someone tells me I'm tunneling I tell them "I'm aware."
They get so mad lmao
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the way it reads she went down on the first smack.
and if there was bt: that's what BT is for. if there was bt and op hit again, that's tunneling then.
only thing this thread proves is that some people are mortally scared of not achieving a curbstomp victory in a videogame.
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This. I play mostly solo Q and a lot of times I blame my team mates.
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As if there's something bad in tunneling when survivors do everything to make you tunnel them.
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The game tilts people very easily and makes them feel like a victim.
I think there's more comfort in yelling about it as survivor in-game just because you're more likely to have backup from your teammates whereas the killer is all alone (especially if they're SWF). Plus the killer is the natural antagonist, so I'm sure they feel more justified in their anger.
However, while survivors will chew the killer or their teammates out in the safety of the post-game chat, killers come here to complain because they're more likely to have people validate their points. There's a certain irony to it of course, but I obviously feel like it's a lot healthier to vent in a place like this than it is to scream at people after a match with them.
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If I ever do an accident tunnel I’ll leave them on the ground
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Wait how is whispers supposed to help in this situation when the rescued is also do wed next to the killer? It goes off even on hooked survivor and therefore useless to find survivor hiding close by.
Or you are saying the killer should search the other side of the map depsite the two guaranteed survivor in close vicinity.
Bt is there to protect the rescued in tricky situations, for example in the basement and not covering for the rescuer. They can already take a hit and if they are already injured they can bait the killer away from the rescued.
When the rescued decides to take the hit and bring themselves into the same vulnerable state than the make the decision to make themselves fair game again instead of going for a trade and look for safety.
This is an active decision process and they have to live with the accompanying potential consequences. Also the covered rescuer could then again try to take aggro again to help the rescued from being hooked again.
For the killer both targets have the same legitimacy when they both are injured and when the survivor with the BT effect decides to Bodyblock while the other hides than the killer will obviously go for the visible target instead of going for an ambiguous search again.
Expecting anything different is the same as expecting the survivor to all search a chest before going on generators to not make it too hard for the killer.
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Just turn messages off.
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It absolutely is your fault... but it doesn't matter. Tunneling is not illegal or against any rules. Even if you decided to single out that player and tunnel them down, too bad for them. They should pick up and move on.
That being said, some killers will go out of their way to be "nice" to the survivors. Sometimes, this is a bit mortifying. I've had killers ignore me because they know I'm on death hook and I guess I'm not a threat so why bother going after me? Some killers will get you that second time and then leave you slugged so you're still in the game.
Ultimately, though, people who main killer will tell you, it's still your part in the game to get kills and stop generator progress so that you can win the match. How you do it is absolutely up to you. If survivors are salty, that's just how the game works.
Decide what kind of killer you want to be but I wouldn't base it off of trying to always get good messages after every match. If you're 'nice' a different sort of survivor will also make fun or call you out. You're adversarial to them and although you might prefer to do things to make the match more fun, at the end of the day, you're certainly not obligated.
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I mean... people are just gonna create excuses.
One time during a particularly bad game, I just opened the door as soon as the last gen got done. Just wanted to get it over with and get to the next game. Cut to half of the egc time and none of them had left yet. I happened to run into one of them and managed to hook him. He died.
Then he messaged me "you can't do that. You gave up on the match so you can't try to kill me"
It was the silliest thing I ever heard...
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Bwhahahah this has to be a joke. You want a killer to have a downed survivor on their shoulder and put them down?! Holy crap that's the most insane thing I've heard in months on this forum.
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I wouldn't blame the killer, I'd blame my teammate that kept unhooking me when killer barely walked away without BT.
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As long as you dont hack or cheat you cant do anything wrong as a killer. try to ignore these comments and just play how you want to. Survivors are never satisfied, it doesnt matter how you play as a killer theyll find a way to call you names and blame you.
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I've started doing this also it's fun when. They say nice tunnle and I accepted the compliment
When the did 3 gens and leave them on the hook until last second and I decided to guard them until struggle and then they ran at me
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Err, no!
Tunnelling is when a killer deliberately goes after a particular survivor, despite there being other (better?) options available. It's derived from terming the killer as having "tunnel vision" such that they don't see alternatives.
Going after a survivor who approaches the killer (whether intentionally or not), or makes no active effort to escape, isn't tunnelling. The killer went for a reasonable option that presented itself, thanks to survivor misplay.
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She wasn't blocking with BT because she didn't have it (not that it mattered because I had time to smack her twice anyway being as I was literally in front of the hook). She went down on the first hit.
I've no idea why she was stood there... maybe she was baiting BT, maybe she was 'stuck' because of how the unhook worked, or maybe on her screen she was still hooked (although she never mentioned any confusion as to how I hit her off the hook so at some level she recognised she'd been unhooked).
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I had a survivor who literally lead me in a chase to where the person was unhooked then accused me of tunneling them after the match it's like why would you lead me to them while chasing that's not tunneling that's your own stupidity.
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Meh, just ignore it. Survivors will always believe they're entitled.
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Tbf I can't blame the Nea for being mad, when that hook grab bug occurs, the survivor who was unhooked cannot move. Had I been the killer in that situation, I would have just slugged the Nea because being completely unable to run away from the killer because of a bug is pretty unfair to say the least
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As a Survivor Main? I say you did nothing wrong, the players were just incompetent and that's on genuine honesty. The Nea was being complacent for not following the rescuer not to mention even more of a fool for going in YOUR direction. That's why we pay attention to everything, that and or run spine chill to avoid the killer at all costs.
You didn't tunnel AT. ALL, you just played properly. Whether nea intentionally BT Body blocked or got stuck, which i highly doubt; there's no such glitch where you could get stuck on a hook between that and a killer otherwise i think at least 5% of us would've ran into it and would've been patched long ago.
In short, the incompetent, unattentive complacent team got stomped rightfully so. End of story.
(Sorry if i came off harsh, that was just brutal honesty. I don't know why survivor's complain for a loss that was properly earned. Unless the Killer camped, Tunneled, slugged or was genuinely toxic from the start, there's no room for complaining. Period.)
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What's odd to me is that people would confuse taking aggro with being tunneled.
If I or someone else gets unhooked and the killer intentionally walks around the unhooker to smack the survivor who was just unhooked and then chases them down if BT activated, that's one thing. But if the survivor gets BT and then chases the killer, that's not communicating anything other than "chase me chase me hehe".
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My favorite today was a group of Survivors all brought items in...I bring Franklin's Demise. I smack a Feng who's item drops, she immediately goes back for it and I down her, hook her. After she gets unhooked I KNEW she'd run back for her item, so I head there (nobody in sight, no noise notifications etc to take me anywhere else). Sure enough, there she is, she makes a B-line to her item and I chase her down and smack her. Proceed to Hook her and fastforward, have since hooked 2 other Survivors and leave her alone.
Last hooked I see her off healing thanks to BBQ, go after her and take her out of the game IMMEDIATELY 20+ hateful, salty messages spammed at me (that I didn't even read). Like look, honey, it ain't my fault 4 whole times during the match I'd make you drop your item and you decided instead of running away, or looping me, that when the Killer is behind you...that you IMMEDIATELY had to pick your item back up and it lead to your death. I don't and will never go easy in the middle of a match, because Survivors sure as ######### hell aren't going to give me any space for a reprieve. I'll dole out mercy for the last Survivor if I feel bad for em. But of course I'M at fault for playing my roll. 🤣
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When will PC players stop complaining about the post game chat? When? Just don't read it. It's not that complicated.
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its not always the killers fault, its always someone else's fault its easier to blame your opponent or your teammate than yourself.
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i've explained several times in my twitch why I did what I did and why it was their fault only to get harassed for tunneling and they don't listen to my logical argument.
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She was upset because she had a frustrating match. You’re her opponent and the person who hooked her three times in a row so of course she’d blame you.
Why even let it bother you? If you feel good about how you played and that you didn’t tunnel then it’s irrelevant what she says. If you feel that tunnelling is fine and you like doing it then, again, what she says is irrelevant. You won’t convince a person who’s salty after a bad match that you’re not responsible for their bad feelings, so just ignore it and move on.
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It doesn't bother me. I'm a firm believer of each player playing how they like. If the killer wants to tunnel/camp, let them do so because there are ways to punish that. I don't believe for a second that I tunnelled, I just capitalised on survivor misplays.
My point was more why everything is always the killers fault whenever survivors don't enjoy their match. There's a list of excuses that survivors have ready to throw at the killer, yet as far as I'm aware, there's not a single trait that survivors would agree that killers can accuse survivors of.
"Gen rush" - nope, that's just survivors doing the objective
"BM with flash-lights" - that's just distracting killer away from gens so others can complete them
"Abusing DS" - same as above, wasting killer's time so rest of the team completes objectives
My point was more about the dichotomy here, where the killer is expected to "play fair"... according to the survivor, yet the survivors will never give the killer any reprieve if they're having a difficult game. I've played 1000's of matches as killer, and I've never once experienced a scenario where the survivors looped me the whole game, and then at the end let me get a couple of hooks for free for the sake of BBQ points or whatever. It's mostly been t-bagging and insulted in chat after.
But if the survivors misplay and die for avoidable reasons, then it's the killer's fault for taking advantage, and somehow they're a newb for taking the easy option instead of tying up their hands further and going for the more difficult option, and ensuring the survivors have a fun game. Like, why do they put that on the killer to give the survivors a fun game when it's never the reverse?
It's double-standards, and I would love for survivors to start recognising this BS and changing their mindset accordingly. But then I think I've got better chance of BHVR fixing bugs than for that to happen.
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Not in this situation much as I run BBQ so I usually see 1 person at least which gives me a target....That being said though if a unhook happens before I leave the area I will go back to see what I can wreck. If I head for the unhooker and the unhooked tries to use their BT OFFENSIVELY (body block instead of using for safety to heal) I will try and wait it out and down them unless I have STBL in which I do what you did. They asked for it and I dislike defensive tools being used for offense. Even when you hooked her the third time it was not tunneling as you were carrying a different survivor trying to hook them and that is the 2nd time that she could have left to heal. Now you will still get tunneled messages/responses as more than half the survivors in this game think they deserve to being unhooked freely and allowed to heal under hook....laughable.
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If you only play killer then in your eyes it's gonna always feel like the killer gets blamed. If you only play survivor then in your eyes it's gonna always feel like the survivor gets blamed.
Killers and survivors play against each other, so it's always gonna feel like it's the killer or survivor's fault, depending on which role you're playing.
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Because you’re the big, fast, supernaturally powered monster that keeps trying to kill them? By playing the match you are actively trying to remove them from it, why are you surprised that they blame you and your actions when they die? Ideally survivors would keep their salt to themselves, but that’s never gonna happen. If you don’t want people to get mad at you for killing them in the game, either turn off chat or play something else. You can guarantee that you’ll get salt from other players if you play a PvP game, especially one with a small lobby.
What do you expect them to do, really? Thank you for killing them quickly? I’ve never had a killer compliment me for a 4 minute chase and an easy escape either, and I wouldn’t expect them to.
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Did you even read what I wrote?
What I'd expect is for them to realise when they or their team-mates misplayed, and the killer simply took advantage and played as you'd expect for them to complete their objective. Simples.
It simply cannot always be the killer's fault, but reading survivor complaints, you'd think that was the case.
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I just wish Survivors shouldn't always blames the killer for being "Giving" opportunities to slug, camp, and tunnel, instead of taking responsibility or blame some of their teammates actions for letting such strong killer tactics to happen in the first place!
A good teammate will let themselves be noticed by thr killer, so that the killer wouldn't have think about tunneling (unless of course, they suspect you are the weakest link in the group/knows you have no DS, BT, Exhaustion, etc.)
A good teammates would not group up and learn to split up; as soon as they are done with fixing gens or healing each other, to Avoid a slugging scenario!
And of course, Good Teammates should not encourage toxic behavior and aggregated the killer or gen rush to quickly when a Survivor is down and hook; to avoid q possible camping scenario!
But of course, good Survivors or any Survivor should know better; then to learn to get good at the game, accept the fact that killers can do these things and have the perks to conquer it or better.... accept the fact that you died and should have play better next time; especially when your teammates didn't do their part and protect/aid you.
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Putting her down after picking her up to allow her to get away, is throwing.
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This is where the irony comes in.
I get what you're saying, but you also posted this thread essentially doing the same thing.
People playing killer tend to gripe as much as survivors do, just not as frequently in the post-game chat. Every complaint you've seen against killers are made against survivors as well. The moment you take on the us vs. them mentality, you welcome in the victim complex.
Not saying you're playing the victim here since you have a pretty well-rounded opinion of things overall. Just avoid thinking in terms of "survivors/killers always do [x]" if you can.
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Maybe I'm still too new, but I don't blame killers for my suckiness lol...and believe me, I've got a lot of it going on.
One thing I have noticed though, as it relates to your example. It seems to me that whenever someone gets downed, or gets picked up, a lot of other survivors immediately drop what they're doing and move toward that area, crouching nearby and waiting for an opportunity to unhook. So from a killer perspective, it makes a lot of sense to stay in the area where they just hooked someone. If the survivors are going to come right to you...
Meanwhile, I try to stay doing generators, because I suck at being chased. So I don't want to make it even easier for the killer to chase me by going right to them. I let the two other people do that, which they almost always do. For example, I was literally just in a match with a Leatherface. He hooks the first one. The other two drop what they're doing and immediately go to the area. I stay on my generator. The other two fail to get the rescue, and he downs both of them. Now I'm all alone, with two downed teammates, and one teammate on a hook. Oh, and did I mention he hooked them on a basement hook?
I managed to heal one of the ones who was crawling, who managed to rescue the other crawler who got put on a hook. While I went to do another generator. The first person who got hooked died.
He ended up killing all 4 of us. We managed to repair a total of 2 generators, both by me. The match lasted maybe 6 minutes, lol.
Was any of that the killer's fault? Not the way I saw it.
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Killers have the most control in the match so there is tendency to blame the killer for the outcome. Killers can use OP killers and perks and the survivor has no way to stop it. Camping and tunneling can't be prevented either.
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This made no sense to me, and I think you're projecting onto me assuming I'm a killer main (I'm 50/50).
I'm not griping _as a killer_, I'm raising the wider rhetorical question of the mindset that survivors generally have which is everything bad is always the killer's fault. That's a very specific observation that cannot be reworded or re-envisaged as a problem on both sides. And it's demonstrable by the simple fact that survivors don't bind themselves to any behaviour that they'd agree is collectively wrong/bad, unlike this mantra they've made some killers believe that tunnelling/camping is bad.
It's a notion I've held for a while and yes, I did make the post because I saw it manifest several times when I was playing killer, but that's also because I hardly see it as survivor as I usually play SWF and we're not idiots to believe in such a dichotomy.
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For me it's the opposite. I mainly play solo queue and I rarely get mad at the killer, most the time I'm too in disbelief watching what random teammates do to get mad at the killer.
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I hope you also think as long as the survivor doesnt cheat/hack they cant do anything wrong.
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Like 3 years ago I finished reading Stephen King's Dark Tower series and I'm reminded on a line in one of the earlier books.
"Let this be a lesson kiddies. Fault lies with the one who places blame"
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I have before. I was on a really good run with Freddy once felt unbeatable until I had a 2-3 escape one match and I messaged them saying man you guys were really tough and amazing I have not had any team finish the gens and escape yet. Fyi this was back before cross-play so was a while ago for sure. Instead of a positive response I got hate from them. How do you hate on someone giving you a compliment? Not long after made a forum account and realized the hate for Fred is strong then not that it's an excuse for their behavior. Switched to Pig after that as my main go-to and have only had one team take her down (3-4 man escape) so far but I'm sure the day will come again.
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I mean the killer is trying to torture and kill people so...
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It's not - using absolutes in an argument/statement where there are obvious non-absolutes is silly.
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I would agree that anything in the game for either side that isn't a hack or cheats is a legit playstyle. I think the thing that the DBD community is really bad at is separating abusive gameplay (throwing a match, exploits, cheats, etc) from frustrating gameplay (Tunneling, SWF Comms, Etc).
Too many posts on this forum talk about reporting people or asking for item/perk removals for things that are legit gameplay tactics just because they don't like them or they don't work well against their playstyle.
For example, when I play killer I hate the DS, BT, DH, perk combo because it's really strong and makes my game harder but I also use it as the survivor for the same reasons. The same goes the other way, I hate BBQ and NOED as survivors but always run BBQ as the killer (NOED not so much but from time to time).
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