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I feel that tunneling's succes is most of the time enabled by the survivors
Everyone has had these games where the killer relentlessly chases you hoping to get you out of the game before it's over.
The complete lack of breathing room can be very annoying for a survivor player so it's generally frowned upon and everyone will look down on the killer.
One thing that i have been noticing is that when this happens. Your team is usually nowhere to be seen. They are just shaking their fist angrilly at the killer at a safe distance.
Why don't survivors come bodyblock? Why do unhookers dissapear into the shadows while you are out their making injured sounds and leaving blood trails.
Is tunneling really the blame of the killer or is it the killer taking advantage of the lack of cooperation from the survivors and we need to shift out frustration to the survivors who don't help you.
I know the optimal play is to split up and do gens but i feel that a lot of people are missing that competative survivors can get away with that cause everyone is atleast decent at looping and that it just doesn't work for casual players.
I've been trying to run bond and pay attention to bodyblocking, sometimes even going down for my teammates and the only person that gets tunneled during those games is me cause my fellow survivors don't return the favor.
The next time you get tunneled and your teammates have zero hooks and didn't do anything to stop it. Think if the killer really is the only one to blame.
Comments
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LOL yep, a choice the killer makes is absolutely the survivors' fault. SURE, JAN.
There are absolutely times when the killer can't find the person who made the save and I don't blame them there for "tunneling" the person who just got saved. But that also means they either never left the hook or chose to go straight back to it.
Don't act like 95% of the time, the killer is just unskilled and chooses to tunnel. Play how you want, but you make that choice, no one else.
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> plays respectfully solo or with friends
> gets tunneled through BT and DS (Or slugged to wait out DS)
If a killer wants to tunnel they will tunnel you out and the only way to avoid it is by looping them until the exit gate is open and escaping which not everyone can do. I know stealth is a valid tactic but it can be very hard to pull off in conjunction with second chance perks and against killers with good game sense and tracking can be next to impossible.
Obviously sometimes it's survivors fault but this isn't always the case. Lately I've seen BT on almost EVERYONE which helps but seriously killers can easily chew through that. I think a big problem with tunneling is the fact that it stems from proxy camping which a lot of killers do for easy trades / pressure or doing that thing where they camp you til stage 2 and tunnel you off hook so they can sacrifice you prematurely.
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Eh, I usually drop the tunnel if someone comes out of hiding to take a hit. But if I can only find that one person, I am going to chase them and hook them... You can call me as unskilled as you like, but there is literally no reason not to unless I feel like being nice.
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I'm not saying it's the survivors fault if a killer chooses to tunnel.
I'm saying it's their fault if it succeeds without effort.
Is the killer player really unskilled for seeing an oppertunity to remove a player out of the game or are the survivor players unskilled for giving him this oppertunity.
This is exactly the problem. You are directing your frustrations to the killer player while most of the time your teammates have the power to stop it and don't.
It's like in a rpg the enemies focus you down and the healer chooses not to heal you. Will you get upset at the enemies or at the healer then?
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Your post is victim blaming at its finest. Stop with that killer main mental gymnastics.
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It’s simple. If your teammate wants my attention, if I can afford to give it, they’ll get it.
If they decide to run for the hills and I only see you, I’m not wasting time looking for someone who could be halfway across the map.
If you’re teammate supports you and throws themselves to the killer and it’s not jeopardizing to go after them, great.
But otherwise you’re going back on that hook. Sorry, not my problem. Either hide better or better luck next game with your teammates. Also, run Decisive.
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I mean I have no problem with it when the killer found me and no one else is around, I'm not sure I'd even call that tunneling it happens to me as killer where the only person I could find was the recently unhooked, but it feels like ######### when you have 2 other teammates tryna take aggro and bodyblocking the killer only for them to be flat out ignored.... like not even copping a basic attack killer just walks around them. Can't really fault the tunneled survivor when this happens because everyone else is being ignored on purpose
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I was tunneled for having key. Also for being good looper (or him having bad game) or simply he didnt like character i was playing or outfit.
Is it also surv fault?
And for the rest what you wrote you keep forgetting that you get paired with players from any range of skill.
So what do you want to expect from a guy 15 rank, hell even 8. Its so east to rank up in dbd.
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I'm sorry but this post reminded me of this photo lol
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It sounds like its most the teammates fault but it's the killers responsibility to make up for your teammates mistakes.
To make a point one time I got called out for tunneling with og Freddy do you understand how bad of a strategy that is?
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Tunneling isn't the survs fault nor killers, most of the time the problem is the foundation of the game.
Survivors objective is just way quicker then the killers. And even if getting 1 surv early out of the game is a efficient strat, i saw many games were only 3 survs still managed to finish all gens and escape.
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Is it victim blaming or is it players playing victim when they actually aren't.
I'm not trying to downplay survivor players. I'm trying to get people reevaluating it and to get them to see that maybe the solution to it is already in the game.
It reminds me of when i got into a fighting game. I kept getting projectile spammed and ended up complaining about it. Mayority of people told me to suck it up, go into training mode and learn how to fight it.
I did and i never had issues with it again. If people there agreed with me and said my opponents were so scummy and skillless i still would have issues with it.
Seriously try it yourself. Next time someone gets tunneled go out there and try and stop the killer. Even go down for them. It seriously either stops tunneling in it's tracks or make it such a waste of time that the killer automatically loses
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"Think who is really at fault here"- The killer is at fault. Should the survivors try to help? Absolutely! It is the killers fault for tunneling, though. In my experience killers will still go after the survivor even if others body block them. You're most likely gonna die if the killer just keeps going after you no matter what.
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well, if i unhook you and you insist to stay at the hook, even though the killer already showed he comes back to the hook after an unhook, yeah, you are on your own. Maybe just run away from the hook?
Also, i will take a hit if i do an unsafe unhook, because the killer is camping or just coming back to the hook in time (because another survivor leads him here), but otherwise, experience taught me, if the gens get finished while i am on the hook to save you, i most likly won´t be safed. Happend often enough for the lesson to be learned.
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Body blocking only works for a single hit the killer can keep chasing the survivor or decide to use you as the next to be hooked either way they've gained an advantage from tunneling.
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Bro, this is a video game, not twitter. Calm down.
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Did the other survivors try and stop him? Cause if they didn't the killer isn't the only one to blame.
Also thank you. Atleast someone who actually adresses the counter i'm propossing instead of justifying their tunneling or playing victim.
Yes teammates are unreliable that's true. But if that rank 15 is getting tunneled and goes down without a teammate in sight their first thought will also be that the killer isn't playing fair and develop the same mindset of you can't stop tunneling.
If they see the other survivors actually do effort to stop it they will later also try to stop it happening to another survivor
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I realise fault was a very poor choice of words. Survivors are enabling tunneling is probably a better way to describe what i mean.
Edited the first post to be less accusatory
Post edited by Sonzaishinai on0 -
It is still only the killers fault since they chose to tunnel. There's only so much you can do against tunneling. Okay body block one hit. Then what? They can still keep chasing them.
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Attack cooldown is 3 seconds survivors run at 4 meters per second.
A single bodyblock allows a survivor to make 12 m of distance
As a point of reference DS allows you to make 16-18m of distance
Standart killers gain on survivors at 0.6 meters per second. That means a single bodyblock takes the standert killer 20 seconds to catch up.
More then enough time for the tunneled survivor to reach a safe loop. Even a mediocre looper should be able to hold on for a while then.
If you have a medkit you can heal up and do it again. Ideally other survivors come do it too.
Worst case scenario you can bodyblock while injured. Either the killer picks you up and spent all that time to have 2 survivors on 1 hook or they leave you and the tunneled survivor has another 20ish seconds to find a loop
Sure you can't force a killer to change targets but you can make it so difficult that it's bassically an autolose if they do
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Generally it is, in fact, the survivor's fault if the killer tunnels yes. Both on a game by game level (most killers won't camp/tunnel if you maintain self control and go for late rescues, which is what you SHOULD do because it maximizes the damage camping causes to the killer's tempo) and on a meta-level (survivors feed tunnelers so often that the killers learn its a good strategy).
It is so easy to not feed a tunneler, just do the following:
Spend 30 seconds repairing a gen, healing, ect., without A: Showing scratchmarks near the hook, or B: Being seen by the hook.
If the killer starts a chase with someone else in that time, check on the hook, if they are not near it, rescue. If they are, pop gens.
Repeat, basically tell the killer 'if you stay there we WILL end the game on you.' Some killers rarely will maintain the camp but moooooost will try to chase you once they realize you don't take the bait. Each hook state is a full minute, use them and don't be afraid to let someone go for multiple hook states if the killer really refuses to leave.
Meanwhile, if you do any of the following, congrats, you fed the tunneler and are part of the problem: Try to bait a chase near the hook, stay down near the hook, stare at the killer 30 meters away from the hook doing nothing, rapidly fast vault telling the killer "I am not doing gens and am getting mad at you."
Basically do everything in your power to make the killer aware a rescue isn't going to be attempted if they stay there. Because killers don't camp to 'block rescues.' They try to (mostly) do it for tempo reasons, and if you strongly impress upon them that THIS game, camping is tempo negative, they tend to stop. If they refuse to, just end the game early and start a better one. It is legitimately a better experience to die first hook and for the killer to lose over it than to get farmed by your teammates desperately trying to save you at the cost of the killer getting a 4k.
The hook is intended to make you make bad choices and over-value altruism over survival. But if you can reverse the 'time crunch' back onto the killer, you can very easily land rescues basically every time. You should almost never be making unsafe rescues as a personal policy.
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When someone is being hooked twice really fast, I usually leave what Im doing and going for save with BT, always take hit for a person I am unhooking if I dont have BT and often even go out of my way to force killer to down me for free just so that teammate can escape. It is my responsibility after all.
Doesnt matter why killer tunnels teammate, what matters is that if he gets 1v3 too soon, the game is over for the rest of us too.
So its only natural to trade health states and even hook states for your almost dead teammate, right. Right?
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"There's no counterplay against tunneling!!!!" Oh and there's counterplay against 3 people split on gens calling each other to rotate when the chased survivor is coming near? There's a reason competitive killers play just nurse and spirit. There is totally counterplay to tunneling if you bodyblock and you don't have all survivors afk on gens.
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Your logic only applies when you go against SWF. Solo survivors exist.
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I pull it off in solo as well
I never play swf
Bond is a godsend
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Tell my team mates in solo q to take aggro then. It will happen in 1 out of 10 games at red ranks.
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That's exactly what I'm saying
Why aren't people doing this? The fact that it's not happening is the whole reason i made this post
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This just sounds like victim-blaming, if you choose to tunnel, that's your decision alone. The best survivor strategy to combat the tunnel is not even to body block, and unhook on the very last seconds.
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Because survivors convinced themselves it isn't their job to apply counterplay to an intended killer strategy, and were successful enough at convincing some killers that they shouldn't have to do so that it sometimes even works.
As a solo player, just always play to hatch and ensure you aren't the first one being chased most games, and you can climb and get to ranks where survivors usually have a bit more of a clue. And even if they can't safe rescue they tend to be better at not overtly hook farming you.
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I've had 3 survivors within the hooked survivor all try to unhook
then they wonder why I down all of them and win that way
oh it's my fault I tunneled and camp?
Why would I patrol gens when I know all 4 survivors are literally within 16m of me? It's the survivors fault
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There's only so much you can do through, I saw that this one person was about to die if they were hooked again. Me being nearby, took two protection hits, the first one injuring me and the second one putting me into the dying state. The carried survivor wiggled free, but the killer didn't want to pick me up and take the free hook I literally just gave them. Therefore, it's not the survivor's fault for something that the killer choices, can't make a horse drink water.
By the way, my definition of tunneling is where the killer gives one survivor attention. They don't attempt to harm other survivors, they are only interested in getting one survivor out of the game ASAP. Some killers have their own way of tunneling while others will be relentless about it. However, it's not against the rules, just don't be upset if you get a negative reaction because from the start, you felt the need to ruin that survivor's experience. I'm not talking about strategic tunneling, I'm talking about whoever you first find — you made sure they didn't play the game. Don't get butt hurt if they are aggravated because I'd be too, especially if this has been a common occurrence for me.
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If you are commonly getting tunneled it means you are doing something wrong. Again, the number one skill a player can develop while learning is gamesense to not be the first person hooked.
A lot of survivors 'ruin' their learning period by trying to master sick chases like the streamers first thing, when in reality understanding gameflow and how to appropriately do things like rescue, gen pressure, heal, and avoid killer attention are far more fundamental skills.
It is like trying to learn how to do a sick combo in a fighting game rather than learning the basics of positioning, mixups, ect. Not being first chase consistently gives you MUCH more power over how the game goes, gives you more power to punish tunneling, and will result in you climbing out of ranks where people 'policy camp' faster.
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How is it victim blaming when i'm not blaming the victim but the people who aren't helping the victim?
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How to reduce the chance of tunneling:
- don't unhook while the killer is still around the hook
- don't hide or sneak away after unhooking, especially if your whole team is playing stealthy. if the killer sees nobody on their bbq, they might just check the nearby gens and stay around the area of the hook
- if the killer gets his first hook when two gens are already finished and your gen is at 99%, just don't finish it. no really, I mean it. this is a simple psychological trick. even the nicest and most fair playing killer might just say "one hook for three gens, alright, time to spice things up a little bit"
- and if you are the unhooked one, don't try to desperately tank a hit with BT like blocking the killer, who is already going after the unhooker. trying to tank the hit right under the hook is alright but trying to block the killer at a doorway or other narrow places while they are trying to chase another player will get you tunneled even by the nicest killers
this will not prevent tunneling in all cases, but will reduce the chance. if the killer desperatly wants to get one person out of the game, do gens. this is sad but there is nothing you can do, just pray the tunneled one is a good runner.
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I'd doubt that, you can easily get caught first and even if you stealth it out, someone is going to be the first victim. The killer will find someone, stealth doesn't prevent tunneling and with the introduction of Lethal Pursuer, doesn't look good for the survivors.
Once you're in a chase, it doesn't matter how good you are when the killer is supposedly 400% stronger than you. In other words, if the killer wants you dead, you're going to die. The best you can do is drag the chase out for as long as possible, and when you get hooked, hang for the entire duration to buy your team time to get out.
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Because you're thinking of survivors as individuals, but they are a team. You're blaming the team for not body blocking when that usually requires a high level of coordination and comms to be viable.
The best team strategy for average players and SQ against tunneling is for the tunneled survivor to last as long as they can on their own and the team to fix gens and escape and rescue/trade for at least a 3 men escape.
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I would cry tears of happiness if I saw anyone toss a body block. I'm a 100% solo survivor and I don't think I have ever gotten a body block or even something like a pallet drop on the killer while being carried in at least the last 200 matches.
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Again, if you are consistently getting caught first, that is a you problem.
Because, no, you won't 'easily' get caught first if you are playing correctly. You are right to note the killer WILL down if they commit to a chase long enough, which is why you take the effort to not be first chase, but taking that effort works very well. If you don't think it does, that means you aren't good enough at playing subtle (not stealth, you don't gotta hide in the corner immersed claudette style, but subtle) yet.
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Most of the time you'll just be slugged. So your team wastes time picking you up and the other survivor gets tunneled anyway. Best hope is to stick to gens and hope for BT and DS plays.
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I didn't say consistently, just saying it can easily happen — Let me help you out, read my comment:
Experienced killers can predict where you spawn at and with the addition of Lethal Pursuer, you have no stealth at the beginning. Honestly, not sure why you're still saying it's the survivor's fault for being tunneled when the killers themselves CHOOSE to do so. Look, stealth nice and all, but someone is going to get caught first — there's no way to stealth and get ALL generators done, especially against the seasoned killer. There's literally nothing you can do besides drag out the process, your stealth idea isn't that all perfect solution as you make it out to be.
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The killer made the correct play assuming they were able to hook that survivor.
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That's not the point, my point is that you can't make a killer NOT tunnel. Literally the first paragraph, you know what I meant. You can literally spoon feed the killer a down in someone's place, but if the killer is determined for that survivor, even if you're on death hook, they will ignore you and go for the survivor they wanted.
I just don't like how players are pretending that you can prevent tunneling.
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So wait... am I bad killer if I take three steps away from the hook and go back to it when the survivors unhook? I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that had to ignore the information the game gives me and throw the match just for the "fun" of the survivors. Apparently I ain't allowed to play the game and have fun on my end...
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You can't without removing player agency and killing the game.
Tunneling and camping are not as endemic to the game's health as people claim, as the game continues to thrive.
People get emotional over it because it generally stems from them being unable to recover from the game's 'losing' state (on an individual level).
The same is true for killers that take flashlight saves, sabos, bodyblocking, DS,etc personally - sucks that you lost your down/hook, but survivors can and should be able to play how they want.
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If I become aware that a teammate is being tunnelled, then I tend to try and distract the killer and bodyblock, get them to chase/hit me instead etc - but I have to say the majority of the time, a killer who is going to tunnel is going to do it no matter what. I have literally run into killers before and they still just want to go for whoever they are tunnelling.
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You're exactly right.
I believe the main reason why players get emotional about tunneling / camping is that you don't really get to play the game. If the killer wants you dead, you're going to die because the killer is supposedly 300% stronger than the survivor. Unless the killer you're facing is inexperienced, thus leveling the playing field, you're fighting a losing battle. The best you can do is put as much resistance to it as possible, so that your team can get generators done and escape.
Edit — Math
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Camping is a result of survivors not doing gens. Not truly propogated by the killer.
Tunneling is a result of survivors not protecting their unhooks. Not even remotely the fault of the killer.
Camping and Tunneling are empowered directly by survivors. Personal responsibility is a fickle topic for salty sweaty purple ranked survivors.
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For sure.
Lots of stuff can feel oppressive or lame on either side, but it's all part of the game.
To be completely honest, if I never ever had sweaty killers/survivors and everyone played super nice/it was enforced (ie 3 hook everyone, no saboteur, no tunneling, no bodyblocking, no taking advantage of certain maps, etc), I'd uninstall from shear boredom.
I appreciate every single player and playstyle I encounter, even though I vent at times :3
I also really like, personally, when I'm dominating as killer or surv and it seems like an easy win but the other side switches to try hard mode and does what needs to be done.
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One thing I think I've always found weird is what constitutes true tunneling, not that I don't get it but sometimes I don't think it applies.
If someone is hell bent on just removing you and tunnels, truly ignores better options, then that's obviously really annoying.
However if I am on the hook, maybe very recently hooked, then my teammate unhooks when they haven't given much time for the killer to go to check other gens/survivors then I am not surprised when they immediately return, and further I am not surprised or even annoyed at them for chasing me the injured one over the uninjured.
This is the key part, people seem to imply the killer has to chase the healthy survivor or else its tunneling. To me that's them picking the obvious choice and not ignoring better options (i.e. having tunnel vision). I don't blame a killer in that situation, I think the blame lies with the teammate who did a bad unhook.
What do people think about this? I don't think this is tunneling, as they aren't ignoring better options with tunnel vision, but it gets thrown around all the time.
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I always play solo and I think that, the better you get at Survivor, the more you start monitoring health states across the team and trying to spread out hooks to keep people in the game. So, I've definitely run across the map to try to interfere when someone's getting tunneled and I've had other solo teammates do the same, but it is very rare. It would be nice if people did that more.
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