DbD's Biggest Problem (And it isn't Behavior's Fault)
I think we can all agree Dead by Daylight has it's fair share of technical problems and glitches, but there's one huge issue that's really affecting gameplay in a harsh manner. And I'm already sure I'm gonna get such positive and understanding responses for this, but it needs to be said.
Within the past year or so, every single round I have seen at least one toxic survivor. The only exception being rounds where I just completely steam roll a bunch of babies, and even then they still try to be toxic. This whole Streamer/Gamer personality, where every single "victory" (even dropping a pallet that doesn't even get a stun) neds to be over celebrated with t-bagging and clicking, survivors that know they outrank the killer feel the need to flashlight click and t-bag and whatever they possibly can think of to bully the killer into giving up.
I know complaining about it means nothing and will likely only encourage people to do it more, but seriously, what is the goal? What is the mindset? You know you outrank the killer by a lot, you know the killer is powerless and very frustrated, so what do you do? Antagonize, bully, mock, anything you can do to drive their face into the mud.
I swear PHub has a subsection that's just footage of Survivors looping and t-bagging killers. There has to be the way people act. It's just so sickeningly toxic. Why do you feel the need to punish people for playing the game and trying to learn? Why do you feel the need to scrub your victory in their face and mock them for not being able to handle four people who each individually have ten times the play hours?
People love to complain about new killers face camping and tunneling, but I get it. I don't support it, but I understand why they do it. You're so brutally punished for doing anything else, so why not get a kill or two by face camping rather then actually chase and end up getting looped, t-bagged, clicked and gen-rushed?
Honestly, with the Gen speeds being screwed up and this on top of it, the game just isn't fun anymore. And that really hurts. I love this game so much and I want to see it keep growing, but it just isn't fun anymore. You try at all and you just get screwed over by the match making and gen rushing, then bullied and mocked by toxic survivors on top of that. I seriously concede the match and open the gates, and they STILL sit there clicking and running around, desperately trying to get me to do something so they can watch me fail.
This disgusting playstyle and undying need to rub in everyone's face how good you are at the game is just ruining Dead by Daylight. New killers are punished for trying to learn the game and any kind of effort to try is met with ruthless toxicity. It's just not fun to try so hard just so four people can rub one out watching your failure to deal with four people who each outmatch you alone.
I'm not even gonna bother trying to request the behavior stop, asking gamers to stop being toxic is like asking the Earth to stop rotating, but it just needed to be said. I used to love the game and look forward to getting on each day, now I dread it. Rounds used to be 15-20 minutes, super fun back and forth gameplay that was a struggle for both sides but still achievable with effort. Now it's just a mad scramble to do as much as possible before the gates are open in 5 minutes. You either steamroll a bunch of newbies or get your face ground into the mud by toxic streamers. I was on the verge of just quitting the game altogether, but Pinhead actually turned out to be a very cool, well-balanced killer.
Yes, this is just a rant post, yes I am aware no one cares and this isn't going to change. it just sucks to now hate a game that I used to love so dearly. I still play because it's still a great game, but now I end up forfeiting 80% of the rounds I play, because I'm not gonna sit there and flail around just so some red rank can bully me and rub one out. 3 minutes into the match I just go and sit at the exit gates and wait ten seconds for the final gen to go off so I can open the gate and wait another ten minutes for all the survivors to get over their desperate attempts to bait me into trying so they can bully me further.
This isn't fun. This is all I've gotten for the past year or so. It's making me dislike the game, and I really hate that. It's way too good a game to be consumed by this Streamer/Gamer personality. It's getting a bad reputation.
Comments
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TL;DR survivors are ruining the game by pressing crouch repeatedly and running around obstacles multiple times.
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I think you can partially blame BHVR, as the official response to people saying the game might be becoming a bit stressful for Killer was to just play Civilization
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That's not at all what I got from this post.
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Us vs Them post.....................again
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If I had 1 bloodpoint for every thread like that, I'd have every character P3 lvl 50 by now... even without playing a single match 😂
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I agree with this. The game has become a literal bully simulator for so many of my matches. I play both sides, and I see it from both sides, so neither one is innocent in all this of course, but it's so demoralizing to have it constantly. I used to love playing killer but the thought of even turning the game on stresses me out. That should never be the case with a game you enjoy playing. I don't play to win at all, I just want to have a fun time, mess with survivors, or killers, and leave or die. Everyones happy. But no, there's always someone that has to go to a next level of toxic and just treat the killer, or survivors on hook, like a piece of garbage. I mean, even lately, the lobbies I get are literal bully squads using a low rank with red rank friends to bully low rank killers. I had it yesterday, and it was confirmed for me when I went to their Twitch post-game. A 3-man SWF, 2 Rank 1's and a Rank 16 with a random. The red ranks constantly flashlight click and t-bag for attention, which I didn't really care. They didn't get a reaction, but they spent the entire match either flashlight saving and bodyblocking me during a chase or spamming lockers to get my attention. Now I was playing Trickster so I was going to lose anyway, but they made the match so unfun it wasn't even funny. And it's tiring being the punch bag for these kinds of people. I've tried taking breaks from the game, even uninstalled it completely a few times but I shouldn't feel like I have to quit a game I love to play because people want to act like this. I don't mind having a little mess around in matches. Hell, I do it with survivors sometimes because not every game has to be super serious, but when people go out of their way to be toxic like this, where's the line stop?
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Doing actions in a game that isn’t holding games hostage, exploits, or anything that breaks the rules of the game should really not be taken that seriously tbh. I have to disagree with what was said.
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Okay
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really? is there is a link to that
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That's not an acceptable response.
What I got from this post is that things that make the game fun for Survivor makes the Killers experience worse. This is also true in the reverse. Things that make the Killer experience more tolerable are unfun for Survivors.
Either way, telling someone who is clearly been worn down emotionally to "suck it up" is pretty much the worst response you could have.
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DbD's biggest problem is those goddamn dirty filthy survivors, and we need a plan to stop them.
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Yeah i feel like his message of taking a break from the game makes sense but the delivery was very unprofessional. That doesn't really bother me though, since it looks like they wish that hadn't been said.
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To be fair to OP, they're not saying all survivors are toxic - they're saying on average, one in four survivors are toxic. Hell, maybe one in four people are toxic on average - but when you're playing as Survivor and one in four killers are toxic, well, that's one in four games. When you're playing as killer, that means at least one person in most games.
I mostly play killer, and the teabagging, flashlight clicking etc. doesn't bother me much (though loud noise spamming is annoying as hell - that's something they could change I guess, mute the same sound after 3 times in 5 seconds or something - I digress). What sucks is that it's the default for some people to laugh at other players and insult them after the game - and I've definitely had that playing as Survivor or Killer.
Not sure there's anything to be done about it mind you - people suck, and you can't exclude sucky people from a game. That's a pretty bad business model!
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He was mainly talking about teabagging and flashlight clicking which really aren’t toxic or things to get upset over. I’m sorry if my comment sounded mean because it did and I edited it because of that but I’m just tired of us vs them and taking in game actions this seriously.
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if survivors are constantly doing it, than I may find it to be toxic. If it's just one teabag at the exit gate than I take that as them saying GG.
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Dude really, you don't have to be rude. The forums is supposed to be a friendly place.
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If they’re waiting out the end game timer just to teabag then I can understand as it wastes everyone’s time but other than that it doesn’t really bother me.
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Yeah I guess you are right, I wasn't correct to call it the "official" response
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Lmfao you haven't been here long
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I feel the same way, except i've only been playing for three months. I would say for the first 100 hours i loved the game but when i realised how frustrating killer can be it started to become an addiction. Not just a nice game i can play to have fun anymore.
I swear PHub has a subsection that's just footage of Survivors looping and t-bagging killers.
Well, i haven't checked PHub for that, but i know where it can be found... YouTube. I have seen many youtubers and streamers with their survivor gameplays, nice video filters, bully killers with their friends in discord. They make stunning a killer and flashlighting them look like getting a 360 in COD. Oh, and when they mess up, it's the games fault. "omg what are these hitboxes lol" "oh im getting tunelled i dont get to play the game anymore".
I can't help but feel like these types of steamers and youtubers encourage this behaviour for survivor players. Thankfully, i have not seen a Fog Whisperer act like this. So it's not something BHVR encourage at least.
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Weird cause it's what I got
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So you agree that its ok to go out of your way to make someone else's experience worse because you are better than them. Smh
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Pressing CTRL and clicking a flashlight shouldn’t be labeled as “ruining someone’s experience.”
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OP complains about toxic survivors and everyone here assumes its a us vs them post, a us vs them post would have something like "all survivor mains are toxic" its a fact that you are more likely to get a toxic survivor not because its a survivor but because survivor is a in a team of 4 if it was something like 4 killers vs 4 survivors then the chances would be equal, OP's post also implies he dosent play survivor so of course he's only going to meet toxic survivor.
side not: yes Tbaging is toxic , not because of the act but reason/context of the act itself. Stop excusing it, just admit you like to bm.
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So everyone should just ignore this kind of behaviour and become insensitive to it? That's not a healthy mindset to have. Sure, this doesn't happen every game but it's becoming more frequent to point where if you want to play the game, you have to want to play with these kinds of people. Who really wants to play with these kind of people, the kind that call you trash, or a terrible, unlovable person after every match? That will get to anyone eventually.
Also if phrases like "grow a pair" actually worked, then male suicide rates wouldn't be so much higher than females.
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Tbagging is the Ultimate ######### you ever and so of course its annoying and is going to make people upset. I think that people should get over it but i understand why people find it annoying.
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So, what's the intent behind it?
It's to encourage and send positive vibes to the Killer right?
It's not a taunt designed to humiliate and cause distress to the other side.
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Just going to put it out there. Seen a lot of players leave World of Warcraft for this kind of toxicity over the years, and then the most recent drama happened where all of the players got sick of the game becoming a money farm, it's toxicity, nothing being done, and immediately switched to other options.
We also seen it happen to Deathgarden.
Not implying.
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It's reductionist to say "It's just pressing CTRL".
It's like me walking into a bar and flipping off random people in the bar, and saying, oh I was just extending my finger in your direction.
Actions have meaning, that is what language is. 99% of people who teabag know what it means. It's funny because I've noticed that the streamers who do this are the ones who only play Survivor. The ones who play both sides do not.
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When you come up with a patch that fixes people you let us know.
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Hey y’all I made this thread because I felt bad for what I said. I did come off as rude and I would like to acknowledge it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/274728/i-m-sorry#latest
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You could have done that here instead of trying to attention #########.
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Excuse me?
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Now we need another apology thread
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Back to the original point -- I agree. Toxic players are the biggest problem with DBD. I tried to play tonight and every single game I loaded into, killer or survivor, I matched with at least one toxic survivor. They griefed the killer, they griefed their teammates, they said mean stuff in the chat. I literally don't understand why.
Where I differ is that I do blame BHVR, because they've created a game that facilitates bullying and then they haven't made any attempt to control the bullies. So they're making money off creating a digital environment where people can be a lot nastier than they'd get away with being in person, and they're just like, "Eh -- you know. There's a bad apple in every bunch." Maybe do something to try to sort the apples, if you're profiting off them.
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I had a match just now with 3 “teammates” who were screwing around with the killer and died early.
I know this is kind of off topic but I feel like it’s wrong when survivors don’t play the game the way they’re supposed too it’s one of the big things that makes solo queue a nightmare. Sorry I got frustrated.
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Did you report them? I think that's the first step. I really wish every report got studied but I don't think it's humanly possible, there are probably hundreds of reports sent each day. I agree with OP that some of the toxicity has nothing to do with BHVR. Every online game can be toxic because there are many toxic people out there. And most of the things that the community sees as toxic come from in-game mechanics or tools, so they can't be reported. Clicking flashlights, t-bagging, hitting people on hook, etc can all be annoying but there's nothing they can do about it.
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How are they being rude?
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I never report but it does nothing.
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Oh, wow, I knew it was a meme. I didn't realize it came from Behavior itself. That is crayy!
But seriously, the mindset of stress is the problem. Survivors are your bottom by design, even if they can loop you for 5 gens. Their whole goal is to flee like a rat. How could you possibly be stressed when their biggest power play is to flash a light in your eyes? Lul.
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No the biggest power play is 3-4 of them escaping and causing you to "lose"/depip
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There's a rule that says we can't derail the topic of the thread, putting their apology here would've done that.
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This is exactly my point. I was kind of angry rambling in my original post, but this is what I was trying to say. I don't care about "winning" or "losing" matches, I play for the experience. The new gen speeds have definitely made this more of a problem as now if survivors have any idea how to cooperate or gen rush the round is over in 5 minutes or less, regardless how well you play, but even that wouldn't be such an issue if people weren't so disgustingly toxic.
I get t-bagged and clicked all the time, and just brush it off. It's just people being people, sad but true. But when you're already struggling to break someone out of the 5th loop they've gotten you into while 3 gens have popped off by the time you finally get a down, it does amplify the effect. It's not just the act of rapidly pressing control or clicking a flashlight, its the idea that these people see you struggling and decide it best to further stress you out by taunting you, rubbing in your face how much your struggling for a single hit. There is no sympathy, no empathy. They see you as beneath them, and they choose to punish you for it.
I just don't get it. Why do you feel the need to punish people for not being good enough to steamroll you? Why do you feel the insatiable urge to mock and belittle people for trying to learn the game? We should be encouraging new players, not bullying them for our own amusement. I want to get my friends into Dead by Daylight, but now its just so toxic, I really don't even want to. I may get them to play Custom Matches with me, but I really have to caution them how toxic the public gameplay is. That's sad. I want to encourage my friends to play this game, be excited they want to play it. I want this community to grow, expand, I want the game to keep growing as the Hall of Fame of Horror it's becoming. But it's hard when you have to deal with such a toxic community mocking and bullying you so they have good footage for their Twitch or YouTube channels.
And thinking about it, I try not to blame BHVR, because it's hard to mediate hundreds of millions of people. But I guess you do have a point, the best they've done is implement a reporting system that you know for a fact is misused by kids who want revenge for losing a match. Like I said, you can't really expect people to stop being toxic, that's just how people are sadly. Toxic players get more views on Twitch and YouTube. But even making a statement discouraging it or something, show you care even a little. If I had a game this popular, I'd be very disheartened if i saw people using it to bully each other.
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Certain player attitudes are, for me, the absolute main problem in this game. I don't come across it in the vast majority of my games, and even if I do, I don't rise to it (whether as survivor or killer), but it happens and to those who are more affected really do suffer.
It's a lack of empathy and understanding (often caused by a complete congruent failure of an individual who is most likely feeling inadequate in themselves - using bravado and attitude to hide their vulnerabilities) which is key. There's also blame to be laid on some influencers and streamers, who choose to get their views by mocking or acting like tossers and thinking themselves as the big "I am".
Probably because their lives are crap, so others need to look like crap. Some of those will either accuse the other who outplays them as rubbish, or if they outplay the other they call them the same thing. It's not often "Well played, that was a good move!", but instead: "Ha! Stupid n00b". The culture behind sitting behind a screen, acting like very early Pewdiepie with the most exaggerated features, or screaming abuse and shouting because it's apparently "entertainment" - it's as cringe as reality tv, which has a lot to answer for mental wellbeing, but that's another topic. I digress.
Anyway, although people who act like bullies in DBD don't hurt my confidence or person, I completely agree with OP that some people's attitudes are the worst part of this game. I'd even go as far to say BHVR would listen more to constructive feedback than someone ranting "Your game is #########! It's pathetic you ignorant ... blah-blah-blah". I know I shut off the moment someone gets like that. Fortunately, I believe it's not an epidemic of morons, and there are many, many decent players and streamers/influencers out there who likewise hate that aspect of the game.
More needs to be said about this, because poor mental health as a result of this is not something to be mocked or joked about.
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I'd argue that if the game was in a better state, both in terms of functionality and balance, the amount of toxicity would decrease. That said, all games will have a small pocket of folks that get enjoyment out of being "toxic."
The reality is, too many people take this game very personally, when you shouldn't. Usually, people that click flashlights are trying to taunt you into a chase (draw attention away from weaker teammates), meme, or otherwise just do anything before taking a hit. Additionally, I've always seen teabagging as a friendly taunt, not as some ultimate, malicious attack on me as a person. Very few people get any kind of enjoyment out of genuinely ruining someone else's experience, nor do they go into matches with negative intentions.
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It is not really a DBD problem. It happens in every game.
For every game where survivors are bullying a new killer, in another match an experienced killer is bullying new survivors.
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You do have a point there, when I do get fairly balanced matches, or matches that are unbalanced in my favor, people are far less likely to be toxic. They don't have that confidence knowing you actually can pose a threat to them. I still say the original Rank Based match making was way better than what we have now. Sure, you still got some bad matches, but they were few. Overall, the problem with that system was it was way too easy to rank up as a killer, which meant that even moderate success could send you into the deep end with survivors way out of your range. But after a match or two it put you back where you belong.
I will say, the match making now is pretty balanced on a Survivor side, I haven't gotten too many rounds that were super unbalanced on either side. The issue is on the Killer side. It ranks you up way too easy and it takes way too much to rank down again. It gives me a bunch of babies, so of course I can steam roll them. And then the match making thinks Im just the greatest player in the region and gives me nothing but the untouchable clicky squads that blast through gens in 3 minutes with zero mistakes. But I get completely steam rolled myself, and it just gives me the same people 5 times in a row.
It need to be WAY harder to "rank up" in the eyes of the match making system, and it needs to be far better at recognizing skill imbalance.
I do understand that some people just brush off the toxic behavior, and it is easy to do if you're not struggling at all.
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I think we can blame BHVR to an extent. Because this game does allow it's players to be worse toxic bullies than any other game as far as I can tell.
TF2 is notorious for having an unfiltered playerbase, but I can fix that by just muting the people who are bothering me in voice chat or just not use chat if I have the option to. Nothing in the game allows you to really do anything that bad except the occassional teabag, and even then, it's not as humiliating or demoralizing as it is in DBD.
I guess I never really cared for these kinds of people anyway. If they really need to let out their pent up aggression in a video game on someone completely innocent who just wants to play a game, then I already kinda assume you're an ######### and I don't particularly care for it.
No one calls another person a slur and isn't ######### in the head over a ######### video game.
No one creates a macro for their flashlight if not for the express purpose of annoying the Killer and tilting them.
No one goes out of their way to tunnel and ruin a survivor's game if it meant throwing the match if they didn't want them to suffer playing this game.
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