remove keys
there is no reason they should exist. hatch shouldnt even spawn before 1 survivor is left. that was the purpose of hatch, to give the last survivor a second chance of winning. not so a whole braindead team could get really lucky and happen to have a key and all escape. and no they are not rare, i literally have hundreds of purple keys and skeletons keys. them being rare is not an excuse for bad game design.
Comments
-
Even if they wanted to they couldn’t since there are achievements relating to keys that can’t be changed on console
6 -
Should change them to only use add-ons or instant open chests and spawn an item of equal or greater quality
0 -
They can change achievements on the consoles, it is just for some reason resisted very heavily and takes way too much time for approvals. One of the things we cannot blame the devs for.
3 -
I don't have a problem with keys or har h per se. I have a problem with keys and hatch giving instant 3 man escapes. Keys should be restricted to the user only and have an activation time.
3 -
Remove Dark Sense instead
0 -
If you're complaining about keys you were going to lose that match anyways. Keys aren't the problem, killers crutching perks and holding themselves back is.
2 -
We all know this isn't gonna happen, but they need a rework. Make opening hatch like an Exit Gate, and make it regress when inactive
0 -
who gives a damn about achievements? keys let 3 shitters go through a hatch because they did nothing all game and got lucky
0 -
The people who made the consoles/SONY "give a damn" about the achievments. If keys get nerfed or reworked it's going to be a small one or it's going to take forever because they'll be changing achievements.
1 -
Keys should only be found in match (and only one per match - earlier today I had a Yamaoka map with two) and shouldn't be able to be purchased on the bloodweb. That's the only change I would make. That way getting a key isn't guaranteed at any time. If there is one, you have to find it, then complete enough gens to spawn the hatch, then find the hatch and then successfully find people (i don't go out my way to find people really) without being downed/hooked (which a killer will make an effort to do of they see you with a key). Actually a lot of effort goes into getting multiple people out of a hatch and it's often not worth it. Id rather just escape myself.
The vast majority of time I've escaped using the hatch I've been being chased by the killer. Even if they've closed it and i had a key. Having to have a time limit to open it like totems or doors isn't fair to lone survivors for whom the hatch is for. It needs to be a fast escape to make up for the fact that 99% of the time if you're the last survivor there you aren't getting out because the doors take too goddamn long to open.
A killer can run across a big map and back three times in the time it takes a lone survivor to open the doors - I know because the one time I managed to do it on the Yamaoka estate that's how many times the killer came back and just by good fortune didn't come close enough to see me.
0 -
lol. Tell me you are a survivor main without telling me you are a survivor main. "If the uncounterable ability made you lose, you couldn't have possibly won." That is only true if the entire game has nothing but uncounterable features. *Hangs a lampshade*
Anyway, the achievements thing, while somewhat true, is an excuse. They were able to change Killer Adept to make it harder without much effort. (For those who don't know, it used to require a 4k, not Merciless.) They are changing the Stranger Things ones with only 3 months notice. (Out of necessity, but still) It has been, what? 9 Months since moris were changed? And they were saying they were working on it before that? They have had more than enough time to change achievements. That is not the issue. They said they were going to make Moris better too, but that ain't happened. There are plenty of nerfs that could have brought Keys down to near Mori level nerfs without affecting achievements. They just don't.
0 -
Stop trying to rationalize, there is no rework, just remove, plain and simple english, its not hard to follow, keys are game breaking, in a game that already progresses quickly there is no reason to have keys.
0 -
Tell me you only play killer, without telling me you only play killer.
Keys are only a problem if you struggle to keep pressure. Run Franklin's. Run a hatch offering and camp it when it spawns. There are things YOU can do. And honestly, if you're really seeing more than a key per session, I think you're either unlucky, lying, or your playing too much.
Things YOU can do to keys: Franklin's Demise, Hatch offerings go both ways, if they bring one you know where it is, but bring your own, or a map offering without a shack/main building to counter that. And finally, this is the easiest thing you can besides going AFK and not giving them the satisfaction, is to just not care about it and play the game. Actually, there is another thing you can. Dodge the lobby. It's really not that hard, and remember: The killer sets the pace of the match, if you don't think you can handle a squad, just dodge the lobby or adjust your build.
Stop asking for your hand to be held at every step of the game. I used to only play killer, but god everyones complaining and getting nerfs to survivor stuff made killer just so boring.
3 -
If three escaped in the hatch, they did four gens bud. And got to the hatch with a key together escaping your grasp. That ain’t nothing.
1 -
I agree, remove keys and nerf Killers to compensate.
0 -
The game is only quick if you don't know how to pressure gens. Played a match last night that last a half hour where only one gen got completed because the survivors couldn't get any meaningful progress and started hiding instead of playing
0 -
That doesn't sound pleasant at all. Surprised they didn't just DC.
0 -
Red rank 1 survivor and killer, all achievements unlocked except Adept Leon, all perks on my main survivor and most killers. 2000+ hours. I saw server lag from both sides, and like I said, I just adjusted my play as survivor, which is something you cannot do as killer. Again, show me your survivor bias without showing your survivor bias; if you disagree with a survivor, you have to be a killer main.
Pressure has nothing to do with keys, because success has nothing to do with keys. The hatch spawns no matter what. Camping hatch doesn't work because they can just do the gens and go to the exit gate. Especially if a hatch offering was used. Hatch offerings LITERALLY only benefit survivors with keys. Almost everything you have said in that post was flagrantly false. I am disregarding your opinion as trolling now.
0 -
"If four people died, that means he hooked 4 people bud. That ain't nothing." - Old Moris. Removed because they weren't supposed to end the game early.
0 -
They already did. Moris were nerfed significantly. How do survivors forget this? They literally said keys were to follow shortly, and never did. ~9 months ago.
0 -
No, I mean for all the extra Kills Killers are going to get by the removal of keys. The developers balance the kills/survives at roughly 2 kills/2 escapes. With all the extra kills Killers are getting, they would need a nerf as a whole.
0 -
Wrong! Hooked and downed again! 😉
And I would hardly compare completing four generators to four hooks! And again, needing to find the hatch, gather all survivors there with the key, and the killer doing nothing about it. Why they added the hatch offerings for survivors I have no clue.
But to show how badly moris affected the game speed, realize they were nerfed twice. Keys have received no such nerf because they aren’t nearly as game speed impacting at all. Survivors have already worked a great deal toward their objective.
0 -
First off, if you look at the top tier players, it is easier for them to do 4 gens than for the killer to get 4 hooks, let alone a kill. They rarely need keys just because they know they can end the game easily.
Everyone keeps saying it like keys only do something after 4 gens. If they did, that would be more defendable. But if happens if you get 1 kill after 4 gens. Or 2 kills after 3 gens. Or automatically, no matter how many gens they do, and even if you found it first. The MORE the killer does, the less the survivors need to do to use a key. A better example of when it had at least a LITTLE counter play was when if you killed them at five gens, the hatch didn't spawn at all. Also, since the killer cannot grab anyone anymore, all they have to do is make sure anyone who goes down goes through the hatch next. An entire group of survivors can get through a hatch in the time it takes a killer to down one with auto attacks.
Keys NEED a nerf, but have NOT been. Hell, Billy didn't need a nerf, but was. Whether they nerf something or not has nothing to do with whether they needed it, and cannot accurately be used as a measurement of such.
0 -
How were moris nerfed? Genuine question, I'm not being funny. I had a match yesterday where the killer bumped off three survivors with a Mori. I'd be interested to know how they were different before..
0 -
When the game first came out, you were downed and dead. Just like that. Then one hook was required. Now they must reach the second hook stage before use.
0 -
YES they can and this is a terrible argument. They already have removed blinks from nurse, and there are trophies for her that require three blinks.
Even if I gave you that point however, it would still be terrible. Game balance is more important then trophies.
0 -
They did. It was called nerfing Moris. The same way keys are not an inherent part of the game, they are brought in to cause a distinct disadvantage for one side, Moris were the same. They nerfed one. They did not nerf the other.
0 -
From what is said above about the OG moris, I don't quite think being able to down and kill someone instantly is on the same par as a key for which you need to have completed 'x' amount of gens and had to find the hatch which randomly spawns. The moris seemed way overpowered compared to keys. Moris now require at least one hook do they not? The post above said two but I have DEFINITELY been mori killed after only one. Both actions now require a prerequisite. I do think it's more balanced with the key still being harder to use effectively.
I think the best course of action would be, like I said, to take keys off the bloodweb so you cannot ever go into a match with the aim of finding a hatch, you should only be able find a key in match and only.
I'd say we could limit the hatch to just the person with the key... But then I think you have to be fair and open the 'should killers only get one/ Two moris per match?' argument.
If killers don't want two or three survivors getting easy escapes then killers shouldnt get the same amount of easy deaths.
0 -
Just pressure the Survivors, but make sure you never slug because they'll have Unbreakable, make sure you're never near a hook when a save happens because they'll have BT, make sure you never try to chase anyone for 60 seconds after they get unhooked because they'll hop in a locker and have DS, and make sure you never make a single mistake at a loop (or try to punish their mistake at a loop) because they'll just Dead Hard to the next loop. And make sure you're pressuring extra hard because they can just bring 4 green toolboxes with BNP and finish Gens in about 30 seconds.
0 -
Killers would be getting a whole bunch of extra kills once key's are nerfed. All the escapes the survivors got from keys and hatches would now be kills for the Killer. The Killer's percentage of kills per match would increase, then the developers would see that and nerf Killers, to bring the percentages back in line.
So yes, I'm all for removing keys. It's basically hiding the extra kills Killers are getting by basically giving survivors a consolation prize.
0 -
Exactly, the average is 2 Kills 2 Escapes. That's how the balance is. Remove Kills and the kill count goes higher, then that means Killers will get nerfed. But if that's what Killer mains want then I'm happy to sacrifice the hatch
0 -
You have to be on death hook. The only time it saves is picking you up and carrying you to a hook. The oidest ones, where they had to down you, were too OP, and it was right they were nerfed. The ability to kill someone after hooking them once and current keys were much closer and power, and even then, a lot of people said they should both be nerfed, and there was not much disagreement. Moris were nerfed to being useless, as the biggest suggestion was make it so Moris required each person get hooked once before using them. (Except Yellow, of course)
0 -
I love how every argument here is against killers, and for some reason bringing moris into the equation.
Have you ever played survivor with a solo queue random who brings a key, does nothing all game, then jumps out the hatch as soon as it spawns? I find that far more stressful as a survivor than going against keys as killer. 3 survivors trying to work together while 1 hides is a miserable experience. I'm all for the removal of keys, or at the very least a reworking of hatch spawn logic so it only spawns when 1 survivor is left or after all 5 gens are done. You get to keep your achievements as they are, that way.
Apparently the devs are working keys and moris into a core mechanic that has to be earned, if the 5th anniversary stream was anything to go by. I have my doubts, though. We've still had no word on the start of a match equivalent of the end game collapse from the 4th anniversary...
0 -
Their early game slowdown introduction was Lethal Pursuer. As with almost all of their ‘fixes’, a perk.
🤣
1 -
Well uhh if you have a 3 gen, or the three remaining survivors are on death hook and injured, no, that wasn't a game the killer would loose.
You can leave now that your only point is destroyed, Mr. Killers are bad and use crutch perks
0 -
This doesn't disprove my point. If anything it reinforces it. At that point in a match you would know which survivor has key and could focus them out which you should have done before you let them 3 gen themselves and if you have 3 survivors in death hook just finish them off.
0 -
There are games that have changed trophies on console actually, you're wrong
https://www.playstationtrophies.org/forum/topic/292028-has-any-trophy-ever-been-changed/
0 -
What about Xbox?
0 -
I would honestly love it if they removed keys. It's already 5 gens vs 12 hooks, and they get a huge head start at the beginning potentially popping 2-3 gens before you even really get to play or do anything as Killer.
They made it so Moris could only be used on the last hook, and they're kind of hard to use if the team just lets someone die on hook or you get a body block sabo squad or w/e. Keys are just brain dead lol, the entire team can hop out instead of going to the gates. It punishes you for doing your job as killer as the second you kill anyone the rest just escape.
Mori's only let you kill 1 survivor, and only on last hook so they were dead anyway.. Keys let all survivors leave the moment they're used and the hatch isn't hard to spawn because you just need more gens than survivors alive.. It's beyond busted and the survivors will quickly force a 1k or 2k and you're left feeling like ######### as killer, especially if you're chasing them and suddenly they see hatch and all disappear in front of you while you get a hit or two and they're teabagging during hit recovery. Just dumb all around.
0 -
Counters for Keys:
Tunnelling,
Slugging,
Franklin's Demise,
Sitting on the Hatch handle so they can't use the Key. (This is a real thing)
0 -
Id be fine with getting rid of keys if we get rid of camping as well. If we dont get rid of camping as well then the answer is no.
1
