DBD is the only game that is worth standing still
Think about it,
DBD is the only game(which is why i think it's a pretty dumb game, addictive but badly designed) where you can stand still and have a high a chance of killing everyone.
Do a test and try to camp with any killer, no perks and see that you'll win many if not most of your matches just for camping a guy, watching how the other bot team mates will die trying to save him. add noed to the mix like otzdarva did and you'll 4k many of your matches.
Try to think of ONE game in the whole gaming industry, that just standing still instead of running around and trying to kill the rest of your opponents can be so rewarded.
This game is badly designed but also well designed and that's the problem with it, if it makes sense.
Comments
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It's true, when I'm over nurse for the day I play insidious basement bubba and I've had people asking me how I even managed to remain at rank one after the match.
Idk how either but it works.
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It works cause the devs decided it's a valid tactic. just stand still and wait for the train to crash tactic shows how broken this game is.
If the killer wants to bore himself and the others to death, fine, but why he is rewarded for that?
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You really cant blame the game. Every game gives you the option to stand still. Only difference is in this game the human players decide to throw themselves at the standing still killer.
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Is this a troll post or something? Because last I checked the killer doesn't start with someone hooked. You have to go find one, then chase them, then hit once, then chase them again, then hit again, then grab, then find a hook and then hook them.
Meanwhile a survivor just presses M1 and ocassionally space and boom, objective done, game won.
It's not really hard for survivors to hide or be good at looping.
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How is the killer rewarded? If you get 4k by camping you don't pip, you barely get bloodpoints, etc. And if you're gonna cry about survivors deranking too, remember keys exist.
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I kinda disagree.
Standing still helps you progress your objective, thus killing the hooked survivor. Survivors throw themselves cause they try to help that guy also cause they feel bad for him.
If you'll stand still in any other game you won't make any progression towards your objective.
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But the train crashing doesn't mean the train has the problem... It means the driver has the problem...
Campers are easy to address, barring Bubba and Billy.
If you're a solo rescuer, you fake rescue, get M1'd, rescue, Dead Hard past your rescued person who probably gets BT'd, and you both run to a loop with that time. And you can do this near the end of the hook phase so that you milk out the most genwork possible during the camp.
If you're more than 1 person, it's totally trivial and you don't need to blow your Dead Hard.
The amount of games that are lost simply because Survivors aren't good and are too scared to do anything smart is astounding.
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The game is poorly designed because survivors go for unsafe unhooks? I mean... I think it has some design issues. This isn't one of them.
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Yeah first of all against a good killer, nah that DH doesn't work i always expect that and that person goes down if he tries to hook bomb.
Secondly, most players who do that are the good campers like bubba but even with other killers u can tunnel/camp pretty easily and still win.
Your last sentence is correct, most of the time it's because the survivors are pretty dumb but that's the issue of this game, most of the survivors will ruin the game and face camping will reveal their bad decision making to your favour.
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It's poorly designed because you can stand still and progress your objective, while ruining the game and make it boring for everyone.
Hag is the best example for that. she doesn't chase she just camps and camps and that's how you win with her, but at least she needs to put traps.
The fun aspect of the game is to chase different people and try to outsmart them, yet i can just stand still and win pretty easily many games.
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"Yeah first of all" that DH always works, because now there's a BT'd Survivor between us. It doesn't matter if you expect something that you can't do anything about.
Secondly, yes, camping works a lot of the time because 1) unorganized pub groups with no Kindred, when everyone ends up bailing on gens to go for rescue, and now everyone's there and ALSO still unorganized, and 2) bad SWF's that give you free value for camping. And tunneling works, barring DS, because removing someone early is great for relieving gen pressure. But if you try to tunnel and run into a DS, it's like running into a brick wall, and it means you just WASTED all that time, gaining nothing for it at all. And additionally, most of the time someone gets tunneled, it's because they are just the weak link and are always spotted, and are bad at looping. Of course they're gonna keep getting hooked. It's not the Killer's job to ignore someone that's playing bad. Especially when that person can still push gens, no matter how bad they are.
sigh.
I hate having to spell these things out all the time.
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Do you really play killer? I played over 1000 hours on killer on red rank and this trick never works.
I the survivor can DH but there's always enough room to go around the bt'ed unhooked guy and stomp the dead harded boy, you just need to wait for it.
Also, of course that camping can be countered if the killer isn't that good in it, especially if you're coordinated, BUT, it doesn't change the fact that this strategy of standing still can still win you games in this said game, which in any other game it won't.
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The truth of the matter is that you gain more pressure by not camping. If you leave the hook, you now have Person 1 on a hook doing nothing, Person 2 moving to the hook, and now you can chase out Person 3 from a gen, leaving only Person 4 working on one.
When you camp, you have 3 people working gens for a while, then 2 people still working gens and a 3rd going for rescue.
When handled correctly, camping is not good for the Killer. And therefore, COMPLAINING about a strategy simply because you failed to counter it is not valuable. In fact, it can lead to game changes that butterfly effect and ruin the game (even more than it already is because of misguidance).
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I've never said camping is the best startegy. that's why most killers I face play the game in a fun way that actually benefits them(unless you're a bubba).
I'm just saying that even with this start you can win games, many of them actually which is dumb cause you're just standing still.
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Yeah, Killer is my most played. I admit I haven't seen Survivors smart enough to try that solo-rescue strat, but I've done it many times on Survivor successfully. The only times it won't work is against Save the Best.
Overall, your oversimplification of calling it "standing still to win games" is very awkward.
You could say the same thing about playing goalie on a professional hockey team. "Wow this guy just stood still and won the Stanley Cup! Hockey is so busted."
You see how that's misrepresenting it?
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No because the goalie needs the help of his team to win the game.
The killer is his own team, he progresses his objective by standing still. the goalie can't progress the objective if his team won't help him.
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What are Survivors doing while working on gens?
Granted, I'm aware they aren't technically standing, but......
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Yeah but survivors are supposed to do that. the game even tells you as killer to patrol generators to find survivors.
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Right, and I imagine the first hook didn't happen from the Killer standing still.
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Of course the killer had to do something, but there's a reason there's 3 hook states for all the survivors and sometimes camping is smart and needed. I'm talking about instances when the killer just bores the game to death with camping after his first down and also get rewarded from it.
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Like, you're just trying really hard to attach this appearance to it.
"Killer stands still and wins, more at 11!"
But it's so obscenely inaccurate, disingenuous, misleading, and forced.
I understand what you're saying, but it's nothing more than something you got mad at, and then said the line, and felt like it was way more profound than it really is.
That's all there is here.
I'm sorry.
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Nah I'm not mad at it cause it happens rarely, mostly by bubbas or just boosted killers.
My point is totally out of thinking about the game for a moment, realizing that you have the option to ruin the nature and the flow of the game and also actually do well. it happens quite a lot mostly in solo queue.
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And I could play a baseball game, be the outfield team, and stand still doing nothing and the batter could hit the ball right into a player's hand.
This doesn't mean the game is busted, BUT it certainly means, "Player stood still and won game, more at 11!"
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Happens rarely. Happens quite a lot.
Which?
And when I said you're mad, I wasn't using that as an insult like most internet clowns do. Everyone gets mad. Who cares.
"Human has an emotion, more at 11!"
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Yeah tbh every comparison you're trying to give is kinda lackluster, camping was an issue since the start of the game and not because of endgame camping or hooked+slugged guy smart camping but because killers just ruining the whole exp for everyone right at the beginning.
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It happens a lot if you stumble these type of killers. most killers wanna enjoy the game and show their skill in chases, which is the way this game should be played. if said killer wants to stand still after his only down, fine, but let him suffer some punishments for it.
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My comparisons are actually pretty good. Not perfect, but what's gonna be perfect?
Someone's "experience being ruined" has basically no weight whatsoever. People's experience gets ruined just by getting M1'd, the amount of ######### anyone should give about an experience being ruined is none.
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I say this in every camping thread: CAN WE ALL JUST DO GENS PLEASE? We all really need to be on the same page with this. If you’re the one hooked, martyr for the cause. Stay on hook as long as possible.
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He does get punished.
Just because some teams fails to punish doesn't mean the GAME should force the punish itself.
We'll again make a comparison to another game.
If you're playing CSGO and you miss your shot in a gunfight, you get punished by being shot yourself.
But if a player fails to punish you for you missing your shot, should THE GAME auto-kill you because your opponent failed to punish your mistake???
The way DBD players behave is worlds apart from any other game. It truly is a phenomenon, and I would pay good money for a professional documentary & analysis...
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You clearly haven't played most FPS games if you think this as most have traps/sentry deploy-able which once set up you can stand still and win.
Heck in TF2 the engineer is so infamous for this he's given a lot of taunts of him effectively standing still indefinitely.
Heck one is him making himself a recliner and laying down on his back on it; its his most popular taunt too.
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And, AGAIN, this is why Survivors should have SHARED BP AND PIP POINTS.
This is YET ANOTHER PROBLEM this would fix.
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To be fair, if you just sit there and stare at a hook as Bubba after hooking someone, or just wander around the hook (even when no one is around and there is no sign of them being around, and you do this for every single hook) it makes unhooks unsafe. There's a big difference between situations where Survivors are forced to do safe unhooks like that, and ones where they just run in while getting chased by the Killer to unhook in your face/chased you while you were carrying the survivor to hook just to instantly yank them off hook.
I think the argument is that certain forms of forced unsafe hooks shouldn't be as easy to get so much value out of, not that Survivors shouldn't ever have to worry about unsafe hooks and should just be able to consider every unhook 'Safe'. (For example, making an unhook unsafe by proxy camping to secure a kill in EGC, or someone entering chase and running the Killer to the guy on hook to loop isn't something I think most should say a Killer should get punished for- but someone who gets a down and just sits in front of every hook (Even if there are 5 gens left) probably shouldn't be as heavily rewarded as it can be. (Note that I'm not suggesting Killers get punished or something, I just don't think it should be as easy or lucrative as it has the potential of being for how easy it is.)
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Camping is quite effective in many games, take nearly any shooter and hold angles with minimal movement from an advantageous position, sniper classes, engineers, etc. or roof camping in Rust... voila argument made void.
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So true, I remember back when I played halo 5 on xbox and I joined this online squad and that's all they did. I even saw a few members with zero losses in their records, or just one loss that happened months ago.
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They could remove the hook aspect of it and make it like Pyramid Head’s power in a way…
After a hook, the survivor goes into a “waiting realm” (the duration of one hook state). Once the real duration is over, they spawn on the map far from the killer and need to be “saved back” into the game but the killer can’t see the aura (like PH’s cages). This also has a time limit - if the survivor doesn’t get saved they go into their second hook state / waiting realm for another hook state duration. If they don’t get saved a 3rd time then they die like how it is currently.
This pretty much removes the camping hook aspect out of the game entirely.
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I was wondering about something like this, actually. But between trying to make it still make sense lore-wise, have it not feel forced, AND then making Pyramid still maintain a unique variant of it, and some other elements even still...
It's hard to think of how to do it.
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You play too few games then. Basically EVERY game that does not have a mechanic that punishes someone for not moving (and hell knows DBD could have one for killers using the same mechanic it uses for survivor crows) rewards you for standing still. Hell, there's even games in Mario Party and games like that that do that
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You’d still have to go through the hooking aspect of it - Pyramid would keep his unique “bypass hook process” - so survivors could still do saboteur plays, flashlight/pallet saves/etc… but then killers would not be able to camp a hook.
The flip side is that the killer would get guaranteed pressure by removing a survivor from the game for a set duration.
After the set duration the survivor can land on a random hook (aura invisible to the killer) so perks like BT and Deliverance would still work.
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The team can save the camped survivor it just takes a collective effort, coordination and no basement downs.
Impossible by yourself or with a lesser skilled teammate. I See alot less camped hook guy saves since they deleted old MMR.
The fact that bubba and others can do this so easy is why I think kindred should be basekit against killers with their one shot power.
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I don't mind that camping is effective, it's that in DBD is completely nullifies the other player's ability to even play the game. At least in other games you can at least camp the other side back. What is the hooked survivor supposed to camp, the killer's face?
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There are plenty of games where standing still is benefical. Camping is a thing in almost every shooter for example.
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There are differences. The main one being that in other mulitplayer games, a player standing still doesn't prevent one of the players from playing the game entirely. Not to mention the fact that the rest of the survivors don't have an opponent to go against during that time.
And it's usually not an effective strategy. In DBD it can be, even when survivors don't just throw themselves in front of the killer. Add in NOED and if you don't suck at the game, you'll get your first down early enough for the survivor to die on hook before all gens are repaired, which means you'll pretty much get a 2K for doing very little.
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It's not about unsafe hooks, it's about camping. There's a difference. Survivors have no other option than unsafe hooks if they want to try and free the survivor.
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We’re still trying to punish camping? Lmao, bruh bhvr isn’t gonna penalize camping or tunneling they’ll just make more perks that incentivize chasing some else
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Now you go and complain about the asymmetric nature of the game?
If you are being camped, you are being a distraction for your team. Therefore technically yes, by having a blink contest with the killer you are actually doing something.
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You are never, ever "forced" to make an unhook of any kind. You can choose to go for an unsafe hook. Or you can choose to focus on the object and sacrifice 1 teammate to try to save 3
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And if you don't have DH or BT?
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What are you even talking about?
Asymmetrical or not, it’s not fun to be forced to not be able to play because another player completely dictates it for you.
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There is no such thing as a unsafe unhook when running Barrowed Time
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You literally stated that you want to camp them in return.
You are dangling on a hook, it is part of the game... you might not like it, but it is part of survivors gameplay, enjoy those skill checks and hope your teammates pull through. If you don't want to dangle on a hook or hold m1 on a gens... go play killer or Civilization.
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