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Nemesis Buffs (Updated)
*Final edit after feedback *
Passive - Nemisis spawns with 4* zombies on the map. Dead survivors rise as additional zombies.
- Passive - Nemisis spawns with 3 to 5 zombies (Depending on map size)
- Dead survivors raise as additional zombies.
- Each contaminated survivor increases zombie movement speed by 10% and detection range by 20%.
- T-Virus vaccine time increased to 10 seconds.
- Zombies both infect and injure survivors they successfully hit.
- Zombies can now hold lockers shut by "banging against them" if they hear/spot survivors go into them 8 second shove time to knock over zombie from within locker.
- Increased zombie AI, zombies now focus survivors in chases.
- Tentacle strike range increased to 6 metres.
- Tentacle strike does not damage already contaminated survivors. Instead it Inflicts a 20% Hindered status for 2.5 seconds.
- Tentacle strike also inflicts Contaminated survivors with blindness Debuff.
- Mutation level 2 increases range to 8 metres.
- Mutation level 3 damages survivors (contaminated or not).
This I feel would make him unique, preserves his identity and would be fun.
*Thanks to BadMrFrosty for some good suggestions*
Comments
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Just remove the sprint burst after the contamination hit and he will be good killer
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Contamination currently isn't worth doing. It offers so little, most survivors don't even bother during it.
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He's getting buffs in the upcoming patch.
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Devs have already said they tried that in the development phase and it was way too oppressive.
I agree he needs some buffs, but that is not the correct way.
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Same people that thought Mettle of Man was fine?
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Dont know what would be op about it. Plague contamination is far stronger and dont give a SB to survivors.
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They've gone on to state that they'll never remove the speed boost on contamination and at this point it doesn't really bother me all that much anymore. The extra speed on Tier III is nice whoever the one thing that should defnitely be changed is Licker's Tongue, it's a useless addon that doesn't benefit you at all. Remove the extra hindered duration and replace it with something else entirely. I don't know what exactly but anything's better than 0.25 hindered duration.
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I’ve been trying Nemesis out lately. I’m not very good with him but I seem to get a lot of BPs with him for some reason. I barely got a 2k last game with him but got 29k BPs and was just a Brutal Killer. I’ve only been using his three perks in the process. Granted this is purple ranks and not red.
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You mean a minor speed increase while he's holding his tentacle in tier 3? Such a major and important change, It's totally what everyone has been asking for.
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Eh. They admitted Mettle of Man was very overpowered. It was fixed relatively fast (by BHVR standards). You can cast your mind as far back as you want and find questionable decisions. The point is: The game is in it's most balanced state yet.
I can only go on the info provided and devs said they have already tried what is being suggested. They were clearly thinking the same thing at one time and discarded the idea for the sake of balance.
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That’s his buff? For real?
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The only thing I find useful with Nemesis are the zombies who point out the general location of survs near them. It's a free minor perk.
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3 zombies is a bit overkill though. Just spawn zombies based on map size: under average size=2 zombies. above average size: 3 zombies.
The rest, he's fine. The biggest issue is zombies being able to give survivors a speed boost, to which survivors can use a vaccine instantly and still have gained distance. So the simplest solution is for survivors to spend more time on using a vaccination. Right now, it takes only a tiny bit longer than Plague(opening the chest AND vaccinating), but unlike plague, you can collect the vaccine early on and use it when you need it most.
Just increase the times for vaccination to compensate for the speedboost so survivors cannot use a zombie to gain free distance(increase it from 3 seconds, to 8 seconds, and the total time to get vaccinated is 12 seconds, slows down the game also quite a bit more than the current 7 seconds excluding the time saved from survivors who vaccinate after a zombie boost)
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Yup, that's the only change that was in the patch notes aside from add on changes.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The Nemesis Update:
- Movement speed while charging Tentacle Strike Tier 3 increased to 4.0m/s (was 3.8m/s)
- Shattered S.T.A.R.S. Badge effect duration increased to 60 seconds (was 30 seconds)
- Iridescent Umbrella Badge effect duration increased to 30 seconds (was 15 seconds, but was erroneously displayed as 12 seconds)
- Ritual of The Nemesis reduced to reaching maximum Mutation Rate one time (was 4
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
This is all they did
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The only buff he needs aside from the one coming up with the chapter is just fixing the zombie AI and maybe making the Hindered effect last longer. (Removing the speed boost isn't an option, but 0.25s is a really sad number.) Just make the effect last at least 0.75s and it'll feel less awful to have someone speed away when you don't even damage em.
Personally, I wish the zombies gained 0.5m/s if chasing a survivor, similar to RE.
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The big problem with Nemesis IMO isn't his basekit. He gets free detection, faster breaks, and can be very scary late game if you get infections. He does about as much as you could expect a killer's power to do.
The problem is most of his addons are functionally worthless because they are trying to make the zombies into some sort of threat when that is very much not what they are for, and most of the rest are such minor benefits they borderline aren't worth taking because the numbers are so comically undertuned, like a 12 second expose or a 15 second undetectable on a killer without inherent movespeed.
Noticably, only three really interact with what Nemesis is going to be doing 99% of the time: Infecting survivors to try to get downs, and of those only two (Marvin's Blood and N-EA parisite) actually have helpful tuning (And Marvin's blood is questionable as well). Most of the rest of the addons relate entirely to the aftermath of interactions with Nemesis, which naturally dramatically weaken their power because it means Nemesis doesn't control when these things happen, survivors do.
And, of course, his irris are REALLY bad.
If you compare Nemisis to MOST killers without addons, they are pretty above average: I would take addonless Nemi over say... Pig, Trapper, Ghostface, even maybe Wraith, its just most killers are actively helped by their addons, and its sorta been a modern problem of DBD where killer addons aren't doing as much (Trickster, Twins, and Executioner all have pretty 'nothingburger' addons for the most part as well). This isn't a huge problem for PH because his base power is really strong and his addons still give him statistical benefits, but it is huge for Nemesis that almost all of his addons don't do anything because his basekit is way more clearly a basekit that has room to build off of rather than the 'whole deal.'
So if I wanted to help Nemi out, I would just do a total addon rework that puts way more focus on the actual interactions with the survivors rather than literally 16 of his 20 addons doing nothing for Nemesis themselves. Go the Doctor Route, add on secondary effects to his addons that interact with zombies or vaccines, but add effects like "Reduce Tentacle Deployment time when chasing an uninfected survivor" that help him get started, effects that create windows for Nemesis to create value like "When a survivor uses a vaccine, double the reach of your next tentacle strike," at least good effects that interact with infection like Hindered or Blind.
There is a LOT of space for interesting Nemisis addons that involve things that actually help the killer: Infecting injured uninfected survivors getting some sort of bonus, conditional changes to chargeup, reach, or cooldown times, and for Iris there are way more interesting concepts like 'Survivors infect each other like Plague.'
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I would be happy if most of what I suggested became add on's to be honest.
Add on that increases number of starting zombies.
Add on that allows dead survivors to become additional zombies.
Add on that makes Tentacle strike inflict additional Debuffs like blindness ect.
The big thing for me though is his Tentacle strike feels week because of the sprint speed survivors get.
It feels insanely unsatisfying to level up gaining naff all. (Leveled up Myers gets instant downs where as Nemisis gets a +1 metre range.... Woop. )
Also, what makes Nemisis fun and unique is the zombies. So I really would like it if striking them buffed them rather than killed them for some tiny punt of pointless mutation.
Remember , killers are supposed to be fun. So long as survivors have counterplay.
And let's be honest, even if they took away the sprint burst from tentacle hits Nemisis isn't exactly going to be a too 3 killer so o don't know why they are being so harder about him.
(Also increasing zombies based on map size is a fair idea too )
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The devs keep saying that, but they haven't actually tested it with the playerbase. It could at least be afforded a test in a future PTB to see how the community feels about it. BHVR should know by now they aren't always right
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Agreed. Unless the change makes him jump to top 3 killers, it's within limits.
I play plague and she's basically better at everything compared to Nemisis. You could give her his zombies and delete him from the game in his current state
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I don't think that's true. Nemesis is almost impossible to loop against if you're infected, while Plague still has to whack you with an M1.
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Rework: Make the whip contaminate, and grow longer only via infection. Then rework his power. Each time Nemesis gets a viral tier it adds 1 more zombie spawn onto the map. So once/if he reaches Level 3 there can be a total of 5 zombies wandering the map at given time... Then enable survivors to kill the zombies if they sneak up behind them. This is at the expense of altering Nemesis (He sees it die). Pallets, and Head On should slay them (Players would definitely use “By Any Means” a lot more to counter him).
This would not only strengthen Nemesis in his pursuing capabilities (He can plan where to lead survivors), but give also give survivors more interaction during the trial (They get to beat up Zombies in an attempt to lure Nemesis to them). That way as the Nemesis trial goes on it begins feels like Resident Evil. You’re constantly dealing with an endless growing zombie hoard while this big mutha is pursuing you. Just like the game if the zombies cluster together, or swarm… You will surely die! So you have to take care of the zombies. You risk getting infected by zombies doing so, and you alert Nemesis.
If you can kill Victor by walking up to him and performing a kick command… Then it makes sense that players can sneak up behind a zombie, and execute it. Then after like a minute or so they respawn somewhere else. Nemesis would have add ons that strengthen infection rate, or the zombies. Faster movement. Faster respawn. Increased zombie alertness. Within so many meters of an aggressive Zombies it’ll produce a Terror Radius until it loses sight of you (If you’re infected). If a zombie spots a player that is downed during death hook it can “Mori” you… By eating you alive like a zombie normally would during an apocalypse. Wild stuff like that. Right now Nemesis is so vanilla and they could do more.
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Honestly if you are good with her you end up timing their onset of broken status with you M1.
Trust me when I say she beats Nemisis in every department. Including when a vacine / fountain is taken, the pressure you produce from corrupted purge is massive compared to mutation level 3.
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I would be happy with this !
You hit the Nail on the head. He is vanilla. It's like the developers played it extremely safe with him. To afraid to take enough risks to make him "feel" like Nemisis proper. To afraid to give players that power fantasy of controling a unstoppable pursuing monster.
That said, it's additionally annoying as Pinhead is insanely strong and overloaded.
So, adding a few extra zombies wouldn't break the mold creatively bit certainly make Nemisis more fun.
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To be honest as fancy as my changes are, this is probably the fastest and most efficient way of changing him and making him half descent.
If I wanted the best of both worlds and to be efficient I would probably love his changes to just be
*Nemisis spawns with 2 to 4 zombies depending on map size*
*Nemisis speeds up zombies he attacks with tentacle strike (no longer killing them or gaining mutation rate) based on mutation level 10%/20%/35%.*
*Nemisis gains increased mutation rate from hitting survivors*
*Hooked or Mori survivors become additional zombies after a 30 second delay *.
*Survivors no longer gain sprint burst from tentacle strike*.
Easy, not overpowered , fun.
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If they add more zombies then his powers shouldn’t hurt. His trick would be to whip infected players so that they crash into incoming zombies.
Survivors typically take the killer back to where the gen is done if the pallets are available. With Nemesis his zombies could be wandering those areas. So now Nemesis becomes the pursuer that is capable of leading survivors somewhere as opposed to survivors just kiting the killer. He whips, you speed up, turn the corner? BAM! Two zombies just bop you upside the head! Like in a real apocalypse. It would really get me when the zombies down me, but I’d rather be downed by them. As opposed to his godly whip that makes looping impossible.
That’s why he should be using zombies that can make tiles unsafe as opposed to being unloopable after T2. 😒
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What should his whip do exactly then?
Let's say for arguments sake he has 4 zombies on map. What would his whip do? I don't mind if it doesn't do damage, but it has to have some use.
Maybe zombies gain a boost in speed chasing infected survivors?
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I'd personally like to see his tier 3 buffed a little bit to make it actually worth getting tier 3 because to me I'm not worried about getting tier 3, usually I'm like rushing to get the tier 2 which don't get me wrong tier 3 is great to have.
I guess that's all I could ask for, tier 3 buffs and improve zombie AI so that it's not walking into things so much.
Also off topic, I think I sent u a friend request on discord so that I wouldn't have to talk about builds and ask about them here. Same name...nemmy wemmy
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I've edited the buffs based on feedback from this post. There less clunky and overloaded now.
Simply his kit is, see survivor, chase, get in range and use tentacle strike to slow and get In a hit.
Tentacle strike zombies you see to provide speed boost making them a biggest threat as game goes on.
Wait till mutation level 3 where he becomes strong and providing he lands his tentacle strike, can down survivor from range.
The counter play to his kit is simple, dodge his strike and he self sloes slowing for loops or escapes. Avoid zombies.
Hope this is easier to digest now x
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i dont like powers that get stronger when a person is dead.
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Well, with his mutation rate increasing his power he should get stronger the longer a game goes on.
Though I admit, any power that rewards tunneling 1 survivor has obvious negatives (hook camping).
Maybe that could be circumvented by making it that he only gains mutation rate from hitting the same survivor once until he has hit a new survivor. So he would be forced to mix up his focus?
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You do realise a bulk of the issues with Nemesis is just the speed burst from the first strike added with the fact that you can rarely even hit a Tentacle on console, due to constant freezing when you fire it, right?
Also, I think you need to learn what the word 'grant' means. Survivors wouldn't be 'granted' Blindness, its a detriment to their health, so it'd be more fitting to say 'suffer from' as opposed to something positive.
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"grant" is a keyword in games that often means permanent until delt with or removed. "has" normally suggests it's for a limited time. And "gain" is reserved for buffs.
But yeah, removing sprint burst and power lag would be enough to make him playable or semi competitive, I wanted him to feel thematically accurate and more fun without being OP.
Example would be Pinhead who is thematically perfect, chains, lement configuration, hell portals ect. However, clearly over tuned.
Its a balancing act but as nemisis is my favourite character out of any genre (except Jhin from league of legends) I wanted him to "feel" right.
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I think the best change he could get is a rework to contamination. Make the effect actually act like a status, would give him so more depth, and would make that first tentacle hit that doesn't injure feel worth it because you are applying an effect on them.
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All he really needs is a reduced speed burst for contamination, a slightly wider hitbox for the tentacle, and faster zombies with an AI that actually works
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If they're not going to remove the SB from the initial tentacle hit on uninfected survivors, here's what I would suggest:
- +2 zombies for large maps, standard number (2) for average/small maps.
- Each contaminated survivor increases zombie movement speed by 10%.
- Increase zombie detection range by 20% vs contaminated survivors per infected.
- T-Virus vaccine time increased to 12 seconds.
- Zombies both infect and injure survivors they successfully hit.
- Zombies can now hold lockers shut by "banging against them" if they hear/spot survivors go into them (like Victor) - 10 second shove time to knock over zombie from within locker.
- During a chase, zombies are likely to move toward window locations that have been used and hang over/outside of them, hitting any survivor that attempts to vault through.
That might help the zombies be more of a focus for the killer.
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You know what, that's really good. I'd be happy playing that version of nemesis! Add dead survivors raise as additional zombies and a slight tweek to his mutation level and I think that is the direction he should go.
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This. Giving him 4 zombies instead of two is nice but they tend to get stuck anyway.
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True bit sometimes it's more a out making the killer feel unique and fun to play than purely effective.
If there were 4 zombies that all gained buffs depending on number of people contaminated I would mind the print burst so much as the survivor has to either carry on with gens knowing zombies are now faster and actively tracking them Or spend time finding a limited cure.
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4 zombies if they just fixed the damn pathing would be wonderful. That's (albeit broad strokes) intel in various parts of the map and they can potentially harass hooks/gens which if people are contaminated means it takes 2 people to work on that gen because one has to lead the zombie away and it isn't just getting immediately stuck somewhere
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Changed the main buffs after feedback, notably from BadMrFrosty. Nemisis would play as a zone Control killer, slowing the game down with afflictions and zombies roaming with accelerated speed.
The survivors still get there speedboat from tentacle strike, but empower zombies and inflict blindness. No damage is directly Inflicted on addition strikes on contaminated strikes, but slows them allowing for an easier strike or zombies to close in the gap.
On mutation the tentacle grows larger and finally, is able to damage survivors as a powerful ranged attack. which is a fair payoff for his level 3 mutation as it should be.
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It would be nice something like.
"If zombie dont move from X-Y position in X sec, zombie give a little jump, or respawn or something."
Just for stuck zombies.
And rather than 4 zombies i would balance the amount of zombies depending of the map, big map 4 zombies, small maps 2. (I dont mind if i have 4 zombies in a small mal tho xD)
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You know what I've been playing him a lot lately, and I'm currently on 10 win (4 kills) spree.
I honestly think just giving you more zombies (4). Could be enough without any other changes at all.
See, because they raise their arms when near a survivors and you see them throw the map you essentially have 2 (hopefully more soon) mobile wards that alert you to survivors Al over the map.
The second main thing with his power is, hold it. Don't use it, let survivors faint left and right trying to dodge it and smack em. Reserve using it for when they get to a pallet or window when it's a sure hit.
The point is he is usable. So smaller Buffs are needed and the 4 zombies thing would be enough on its own. A few tweaks would be great but this is the direction I prey they take him.
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WOW the buff the gave him was utter utter garbage! What are they thinking? Can bearly even notice a move speed increase anywhere
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