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Make WGLF award tokens for completing generators
We're Gonna Live Forever requires Survivors to unhook or take a hit to get tokens. There are a few problems with this:
1. Encourages Survivors to hook farm their teammates
2. Encourages a play style not everyone enjoys (some people like doing gens or playing stealthy, others like dancing with the Killer)
3. Acquiring max stacks is difficult even if you play correctly (either unhook 4 people, or take 4 hits and risk dying yourself)
So WGLF stacks should be awarded for an action that all Survivors participate in regardless of playstyle, just like the Killer's BBQ perk. Completing generators seems like the action that fits the bill, but maybe reviving downed Survivors would feel more thematic for a perk called "We're Gonna Live Forever."
I'd be okay with either option, but in WGLF current state, giving up a perk slot for an unreliable chance at extra bloodpoints that also forces Survivors to play in a manner they may not enjoy doesn't seem worth it.
Comments
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There should definitely be better ways to get stacks for WGLF (especially since it involves legit sacrificing a perk slot,) but rewarding gen rushing is not it. The theme of the perk is rooted in altruism, so things like pulling the killer away from other survivors or healing others to full (and/or from downed) would honestly be better candidates.
If you want some advice in its current iteration, run borrowed time, bodyblock hits (especially when the gates are open) and go for desperation when its not detrimental to your team. Ive gotten stacks for getting hit while healing other people (even ones who were downed,) so its not exactly impossible in its current iteration.
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I get 4 tokens per game without farming as well. If you take a hit then pull someone off the hook that's 2 tokens in 3 seconds. Taking a hit while someone is being carried, while healing someone from off the floor. Saving someone from a bear trap as well. Running behind someone as the head to an exit gate and taking a hit.Ryuhi said:There should definitely be better ways to get stacks for WGLF (especially since it involves legit sacrificing a perk slot,) but rewarding gen rushing is not it. The theme of the perk is rooted in altruism, so things like pulling the killer away from other survivors or healing others to full (and/or from downed) would honestly be better candidates.
If you want some advice in its current iteration, run borrowed time, bodyblock hits (especially when the gates are open) and go for desperation when its not detrimental to your team. Ive gotten stacks for getting hit while healing other people (even ones who were downed,) so its not exactly impossible in its current iteration.
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Killer has to hook 4 different survivors to get 4 stacks. Therefore I propose that survivors only get 1-2 stacks per survivor. 1 for a unhook and another 1 for getting hit next to that survivor. But not 4 stacks from the same survivor.0
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What? No.
If you fully heal a fellow survivor, perhaps, in addition to rescuing and tanking hits?
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@aarongai
(1) - Agreed. Honestly you should lose a stack and/or lose bloodpoints for unsafe rescues like how the Benevolent emblem works.
(2) - I mean someone has to save hooked survivors in a game, right?
(3) - Agreed. Max WGLF stacks is def harder than max BBQ stacks.However, I agree with @Ryuhi that giving stacks for gen completion wouldn't be the best solution. First of all, what if you don't stick around to finish the gen or just stop by the gen when it's at 99% to tap it to get a stack. That would seem dumb. That would also incentivize gen rushing even more which the devs are trying not to do. Maybe if you complete a heal entirely by yourself (or maybe an entire gen by yourself) could be a stack?
@Dabrownman1812
Taking a hit and then pulling off a hook within 3 seconds is what people like to call [hook]-farming and is usually a very bad strategy... You and/or the rescued are likely to get downed immediately which is detrimental for your whoever gets downed, your benevolent emblem, and you also screw your team over. Don't farm for WGLF stacks!@Tsulan
But what if only one survivor is getting chased/hooked? Seems strange to suddenly stop cutting off WGLF stacks at an arbitrary number.0 -
WGLF is NOT about being the stealthy gen jockey, but the soldierboy with the "no one left behind" attitude.
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@Wolf74 said:
WGLF is NOT about being the stealthy gen jockey, but the soldierboy with the "no one left behind" attitude.The reason I say the stacks should be given for generator completion is that generators are Survivors' main objectives, just as hooking Survivors is the Killer's main objective and he is given tokens for that with BBQ. You see the parallel here?
Generator completion isn't suited thematically for WGLF, but the equal condition of both sides completing their main objectives is why I suggested they be given for generators. I'd be fine with tokens being awarded for reviving downed survivors too, or escaping a chase that lasts 15+ seconds maybe.
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@aarongai said:
@Wolf74 said:
WGLF is NOT about being the stealthy gen jockey, but the soldierboy with the "no one left behind" attitude.The reason I say the stacks should be given for generator completion is that generators are Survivors' main objectives, just as hooking Survivors is the Killer's main objective and he is given tokens for that with BBQ. You see the parallel here?
Generator completion isn't suited thematically for WGLF, but the equal condition of both sides completing their main objectives is why I suggested they be given for generators. I'd be fine with tokens being awarded for reviving downed survivors too, or escaping a chase that lasts 15+ seconds maybe.
No. BBQ is about hooking (the killer objective) and WGLF is about unhooking (spoiling the killers objective).
You see the parallel here?
We could also twist this around and say that killer should get stacks for kickin gens also. :P1 -
@Wolf74 said:
@aarongai said:
@Wolf74 said:
WGLF is NOT about being the stealthy gen jockey, but the soldierboy with the "no one left behind" attitude.The reason I say the stacks should be given for generator completion is that generators are Survivors' main objectives, just as hooking Survivors is the Killer's main objective and he is given tokens for that with BBQ. You see the parallel here?
Generator completion isn't suited thematically for WGLF, but the equal condition of both sides completing their main objectives is why I suggested they be given for generators. I'd be fine with tokens being awarded for reviving downed survivors too, or escaping a chase that lasts 15+ seconds maybe.
No. BBQ is about hooking (the killer objective) and WGLF is about unhooking (spoiling the killers objective).
You see the parallel here?
We could also twist this around and say that killer should get stacks for kickin gens also. :PThat made me laugh when I remember all the long games where I max out on kicking gens, throw in double bp weekend and hello easy prestige.
Post edited by powerbats on0 -
I feel like generators should help wglf. It may not be direct protection, but i feel like it's some of the best.
What better way to help people live than by trying to help thrm escape?
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@Rebel_Raven said:
I feel like generators should help wglf. It may not be direct protection, but i feel like it's some of the best.
What better way to help people live than by trying to help thrm escape?So no matter what the killer is doing. Camping or not. Survivor will get their stacks.
Gen rush galore.
When 4 survivor with WGLF work on the same gen, do they all get the stack when they finish? :sarcastic:0 -
Like gen rushes don't exist already?Wolf74 said:@Rebel_Raven said:
I feel like generators should help wglf. It may not be direct protection, but i feel like it's some of the best.
What better way to help people live than by trying to help thrm escape?So no matter what the killer is doing. Camping or not. Survivor will get their stacks.
Gen rush galore.
When 4 survivor with WGLF work on the same gen, do they all get the stack when they finish? :sarcastic:
And do you realize how hard it is for one survivor to do, what does wglf stack to, 4? One survivor doing 4 gens?
No, odds are against a survivor getting all the stacks just doing gens.3 -
@Rebel_Raven said:
No, odds are against a survivor getting all the stacks just doing gens.Yep, a Survivor usually does 1-2 generators in most games. So getting 2 stacks from generators and unhooking 2 survivors seems pretty reasonable to me.
Also the concept of generator rushing is pretty silly. You don't hear people complain about killers "kill rushing", do you? It's just both sides trying to accomplish their objectives.
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@Rebel_Raven said:
Wolf74 said:@Rebel_Raven said:
I feel like generators should help wglf. It may not be direct protection, but i feel like it's some of the best.
What better way to help people live than by trying to help thrm escape?
So no matter what the killer is doing. Camping or not. Survivor will get their stacks.
Gen rush galore.
When 4 survivor with WGLF work on the same gen, do they all get the stack when they finish? :sarcastic:
Like gen rushes don't exist already?
And do you realize how hard it is for one survivor to do, what does wglf stack to, 4? One survivor doing 4 gens?
No, odds are against a survivor getting all the stacks just doing gens.
Thats not exactly the point... Its very hard for survivors to get 4 stacks through purely unhooking (every unhook they don't do lowers the probability of it even being possible) yet people still hook farm because of it. As it stands, unhooking teammates is the best way to both get stacks AND get altruism points. It causes a vulture effect, which is the reason why people are trying to think of alternate ways to get stacks.
Gen rush already exists, but giving stacks as a reward for gen rushing just further encourages it. There is a lot of potential to dissuade it with the perk, and even in its current lacklustre form it does so. The second you give WGLF the ability to gain stacks through gens, you pretty much assure it will worsen the situation.
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My problem with wglf is its unreliable and is the only perk that allows a survivour to double their bp gain. Maybe wglf shouldnt be adjusted to grant gen tokens but if thats not the case then another perk which might be determination or light waker could have a similar set up with objectives being rewarded instead.
If you want too promote survivors slowing the game down you could require 5 stacks with a max of a 100% bonus in bp gain with totems being another means to gain a stack. Thus increasing a games length as it encourages destruction of dull totems.
Nothing turns me off dbd more then entering a dbd game and having a survivour farm me with bt and then when i ask them why i get "sry bro need my wglf stacks" . I mean i see why most killers are happy with wglf current setup it makes their job easier as it allows killers to eliminate a player earlier with ease. I know this because I constantly encounter this as killer and it swings the game so dramtically in my favour its ridiclous.1 -
@aarongai said:
The Killer can run BBQ and play normally, hooking Survivors to get extra bloodpoints. He would do this in all of his games regardless of running the perk.We're Gonna Live Forever requires Survivors to unhook or take a hit to get tokens. There are a few problems with this:
Encourages Survivors to hook farm their teammates
Encourages a play style not everyone enjoys (some people like doing gens or playing stealthy, others like dancing with the Killer)
Acquiring max stacks is difficult even if you play correctly (either unhook 4 people, or take 4 hits and risk dying yourself)
So WGLF stacks should be awarded for an action that all Survivors participate in regardless of playstyle, just like the Killer's BBQ perk. Completing generators seems like the action that fits the bill, but maybe reviving downed Survivors would feel more thematic for a perk called "We're Gonna Live Forever."
I'd be okay with either option, but in WGLF current state, giving up a perk slot for an unreliable chance at extra bloodpoints that also forces Survivors to play in a manner they may not enjoy doesn't seem worth it.
While I like the concept of the idea, it would make genrushing insane which would be a really bad idea in the current state
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Nope, it is against the 'soul' of WGLF.
The only buff WGLF needs is healing tokens. Other than that, it is fine imo.
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@se05239 said:
What? No.If you fully heal a fellow survivor, perhaps, in addition to rescuing and tanking hits?
I like this idea. Cause multiple people can heal, but only one person can unhook.Not to mention, healing makes a lot more sense with the name "We're Gonna Live Forever" than taking a hit.
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While I agree with you, I also disagree with the change for the purpose of fitting all playstyles. Perks are there to enhance your strengths or buff your weaknesses, and most perks play better with certain play styles than others. I don't think there's any need to make it universal0
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It's as arbitrary as BBQ which does exactly that. Double standards?touchpadgamer said:@aarongai
(1) - Agreed. Honestly you should lose a stack and/or lose bloodpoints for unsafe rescues like how the Benevolent emblem works.
(2) - I mean someone has to save hooked survivors in a game, right?
(3) - Agreed. Max WGLF stacks is def harder than max BBQ stacks.However, I agree with @Ryuhi that giving stacks for gen completion wouldn't be the best solution. First of all, what if you don't stick around to finish the gen or just stop by the gen when it's at 99% to tap it to get a stack. That would seem dumb. That would also incentivize gen rushing even more which the devs are trying not to do. Maybe if you complete a heal entirely by yourself (or maybe an entire gen by yourself) could be a stack?
@Dabrownman1812
Taking a hit and then pulling off a hook within 3 seconds is what people like to call [hook]-farming and is usually a very bad strategy... You and/or the rescued are likely to get downed immediately which is detrimental for your whoever gets downed, your benevolent emblem, and you also screw your team over. Don't farm for WGLF stacks!@Tsulan
But what if only one survivor is getting chased/hooked? Seems strange to suddenly stop cutting off WGLF stacks at an arbitrary number.1 -
Gaining stacks through doing Gens would be a bit... much tbh. Like, sure, a lot of people take it already (I don't since I suck eggs when it comes to unhooking survivors or protecting them) but your proposed change would make it be taken 100% of the time on all Survivors, effectively reducing the number perk slots to 3 (or in my case 1).
BBQ is taken on most all Killers but it isn't as mandatory as this change would make WGLF.0
