A radical idea for fixing the Legion
Right now, it feels like Legion discussions are at an impasse due to the character being very strongly polarizing.
On one hand, the Legion is extremely easy to get a hit with using their power, almost to the point of braindeadness. Additionally, the first hit they secure on a healthy survivor is dramatically more valuable than subsequent hits.
On the other hand, the Legion has heavy difficulties getting hooks, especially without high quality add-ons. Hitting survivors additional time (without Frank's Mixtape) is very low value.
A simple buff cannot make this killer right. Instead, we must address the polarizing nature of Feral Frenzy. I'll list my proposal below, than explain in more detail why I chose each proposed change.
EDITED 12/18/2018. DreamNomad has some ideas I rather like, so credit goes to him for about half of this.
+: Increase the duration of Feral Frenzy. (~25% longer?)
-: Decrease the movement speed in Feral Frenzy to 4.8m/s. (120%)
+: Feral Frenzy hits on a survivor with who is already injured apply Deep Wound with 1/3 of the timer already depleted.
+: For each different survivor hit during Feral Frenzy, gain a stacking 0.1m/s bonus to movement speed for the duration of the power. (2.5%, up to 10% max)
+: Change the Smiley Pin family of addons to grant additional duration and speed bonuses for each different target hit within one activation of the power.
~: Any other aspects of Feral Frenzy not mentioned remain unchanged. Base statistics for the Legion remain unchanged.
So, why these changes?
1) To make the Legion in Frenzy more sensibly avoidable in the chase. These changes would lessen their insane chase potential, without gutting it entirely. Right now, getting hit once by a Legion is close to inevitable, without heavy outplay/juking.
2) To make the difference between Injured and Healthy matter again. Right now, combined with Legion's easy first hit, being healthy against the Legion only rarely matters, discouraging healing but also discouraging Legion from using their power.
3) To keep the current 4-hit KO, while moving value such that only two power activations total are needed.
4) To make Frank's Mixtape less of a total gamechanger, and more of an optional pressure tool. Dealing 66% instead of 50% won't change hit counts.
5) To continue to encourage players to target switch when able, by providing an additional reward in the form of the speed boost.
6) Most importantly, to allow the Legion to get more hooks, instead of essentially being a 'forced friendly'! (Forced Friendly is an exaggeration, but I've had many games of Legion where I earn over 25k BP, +1 pip, yet all survivors escape with less than three hooks total!)
I feel like this would normalize the Legion while retaining their identity and style. What do you think?
Comments
-
1)If the duration was increased by 50% then survivors still have no realistic chance for an outplay on the first hit. Only difference is it would take longer sometimes.
2)To make healthy/injured state matter more I would prefer to see hits against injured survivors have less than full deep wound meter.
3.)I actually enjoy tracking the wounded survivors while their deep wound timer bleeds out. By making the two activation system the optimal play I feel like it would take away a large part of what makes Legion unique among the killers.
4.)I would argue if they made these changes they might as well reduce the rarity of the item. It wouldn't actually be that strong since essentially the killer already has Frank's Mix Tape.
5.)This is probably the best part of your idea.
6.)Is getting 25k bloodpoints and a pip the worst thing in the world? I'm not saying Legion shouldn't be more deadly, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. If killers are getting lots of bloodpoints and pipping then is there an actual problem?0 -
@Dreamnomad said:
snip
6.)Is getting 25k bloodpoints and a pip the worst thing in the world? I'm not saying Legion shouldn't be more deadly, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. If killers are getting lots of bloodpoints and pipping then is there an actual problem?This is fair, but I wanted to address this specifically. Yes, hooks are important - and not necessarily for balance, but for tension. Sacrifices and hooks are one of the most visceral rewards for the killer, and one of the main components of tension for survivors. Although I occasionally enjoy a more relaxed pace, I think the overall experience when fighting as or against a legion can quickly get dull. The character is fun for a while, or if you only play them occasionally, but the lack of threat you pose does get to you eventually in terms of frustration. This is just my 2c, of course.
Anyhow, you made some good critiques! I'll mull over whether those points can be addressed reasonably, but in the meantime, do you have any ideas or changes you would make?
0 -
@That_One_Scrub said:
Anyhow, you made some good critiques! I'll mull over whether those points can be addressed reasonably, but in the meantime, do you have any ideas or changes you would make?Yeah, I would like to see Frenzy recharge on a successful hit against a survivor w/o deep wounds to increase beyond 100%. Maybe 125% to 150% with the stupid smiley pins changed to increase the duration. The reason for this is to support the intended purpose of the killer which is to injure survivors and change targets. Legion can't really do that effectively because the frenzy duration is too short unless survivors are stacked really close together.
It's already quite easy to get the second hit on a survivor you've already hit with frenzy since you would have been in melee range to get the hit off. So it wouldn't really help legion tunnel harder, rather, I would expect this to give legion more motivation to change targets.
I would also like to see it changed so when Legion frenzy hits an injured survivor they don't get the full deep wound meter. After all, they are already injured. Their deep wounds should be.. deeper. I think they should have approximately 1 hit worth missing from their deep wound meter. This should help motivate survivors to actually heal which would buy Legion more time to hunt.
The last thing I would like to see done is have the frenzy damage to the deep wound meter slightly increased. Not enough to reduce the number of hits needed to down a survivor, but enough to reduce the bleed time needed to chain hits. The way I like to play Legion is to frenzy hit, frenzy hit same target again, break off chase and follow blood trail until the survivor is one hit away from being down and then frenzy again. Lowering the combo by a few seconds would be nice. Alternatively, increasing the rate survivors deep wound meter deteriorates would be good too. One or the other.
I would also like to see an add on introduced that that interacts with Frenzy and Exposed. For example, frenzy hits against exposed injured survivors will put them in the dying state, frenzy hits against healthy exposed survivors will have their Deep Wound meter reduced by 50%.
1 -
Skill checks to mending?
0 -
shorter cooldown, basic attacks no longer deplete the power gauge and a rework for pin addons?
0 -
Dreamnomad said:
Yeah, I would like to see Frenzy recharge on a successful hit against a survivor w/o deep wounds to increase beyond 100%. Maybe 125% to 150% with the stupid smiley pins changed to increase the duration. The reason for this is to support the intended purpose of the killer which is to injure survivors and change targets. Legion can't really do that effectively because the frenzy duration is too short unless survivors are stacked really close together.
It's already quite easy to get the second hit on a survivor you've already hit with frenzy since you would have been in melee range to get the hit off. So it wouldn't really help legion tunnel harder, rather, I would expect this to give legion more motivation to change targets.
I would also like to see it changed so when Legion frenzy hits an injured survivor they don't get the full deep wound meter. After all, they are already injured. Their deep wounds should be.. deeper. I think they should have approximately 1 hit worth missing from their deep wound meter. This should help motivate survivors to actually heal which would buy Legion more time to hunt.
The other ideas in your post I'm pretty neutral on, but I do like these bits a lot.Honestly, it's a very similar idea, so it's nice to see someone else thinking in a couple of the same ways. Sweet validation!
Yeah, I guess if Deep Wound started at 2/3rds vs injured survivors, that would serve much the same purpose as upping the deep wound damage to 1/2. The advantage being that a two-activation kill is not possible vs a healthy survivor in the former, and the 'disadvantage' of it being that Legion's first hit on a healthy survivor is still strictly superior to a non-power hit. But, the tradeoff makes sense. Actually...yeah, I do think I like your version better, come to think of it. Editing the OP!
0
