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Did behavior mislead buyers with the chapter release?
Comments
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Hell, at this stage you wouldn't even have to mention the voice line. All you'd have to tell the store is that the "product doesn't work as advertised," since Pinhead keeps randomly crashing your game while playing him, with no timeline for a fix conveyed by BHVR.
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If it is temporarily removed due to game file issues or permanently removed due to licensing issues certainly would have an impact on if I give behavior my business.
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Oh yeah... this whole chapter is a buggy mess, the voice lines being perhaps an additional bug issue.
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I can see it. Especially since the U.S. Rights for the original 1987 film revert back to Clive Barker as of December 19th of this year, per his court battle win for them. So, the reboot and the TV show will ultimately also have to go through him at some point, and he has been very vocal over the years about his dislike of the sillier elements in the movie franchise.
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Then don't buy it - that's your choice/right. I think it is pretty obvious from the wording - the voice lines will not be returning. They weren't removed due to a bug - because if they were it would be in the KNOWN ISSUES section. It's seriously not that complicated to figure out.
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How did they mislead buyers? When you read the description of the DLC in the store, it clearly states the only thing it has is "New Killer - The Cenobite". It isn't stated anywhere that the killer would come with voice lines.
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The main advertising DBD gets comes from the streams and videos of their fog whisperers which show a killer with voice lines. That's how they mislead buyers. More people will watch those streams then read the patch notes.
If they cared about transparency, they could have sent a tweet about the voice lines. Putting it in the patch notes is doing the bare minimum to not be on the line for fraud and that's it.
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Fog Whisperers are not part of BHVR. They have nothing to do with advertisement. Their main way of advertising a new killer is through trailers, official streams and official social media, and none of those said "hey this killer is going to have voice lines!!!". Everybody should know at this point nothing at PTB is final, it was your choice to believe it was going to be.
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Right and that's why BHVR is not legally responsible. But they know that people watch those streams to see what the new killer is like and they decided to do the bare minimum to inform the playerbase of the change.
This isn't fraud, they are allowed to change things from the PTB. But if they make a controversial change that the know players are going to be annoyed about and then hide that change away as one line of the patch notes, they deserve the criticism they get for that decision.
Now the players will have to check the patch notes carefully every time there is a release to see what was removed, the trust is gone. BHVR could have just been a little bit more transparent, but they decided not to be. Probably because it would hurt sales.
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The thing is, the only one who can say why it was removed is BHVR, and instead of a straightforward answer they gave a very ambiguous response. I'd appreciate if they clarified before I and others purchased the product.
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Every game includes its changes on the patch nothes, and those are put everywhere. Twitter, Facebook, Forums, Instagram and even when you open the game it's literally the first thing you see. They have no obligation of making a huge post on Twitter saying "hey guys sorry but we removed the voice lines!".
If you still buy the chapter without reading the patch notes, then again that's on you. Make it a lesson for anything you buy on your life.
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THEN DON'T BUY IT.. Jesus H! If you don't have the information you want or need to buy something - Don't buy it. It's a very simple concept. Stop blaming others (BHVR) for you CHOOSING to buy something without all the information you apparently need or want beforehand.
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You're talking about obligation again. I'm talking about what they SHOULD do if they care about their customers. You seem more concerned with what they HAVE to do to avoid a fraud lawsuit. Legally, they have no obligation to keep the game running at all. They could shut it down tomorrow like they did with Deathgarden. Are you saying people wouldn't have the right to complain if they did that?
It would have been extremely easy for them to send a tweet or make the information more visible then burying it in the patch notes, but they didn't. They deserve criticism for doing so.
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When I make a purchase I do a modicum of research beforehand... even if it is for "just" $5. You keep criticizing BHVR for not "doing their part"... guess what - consumers have a part to play as well - be informed on your purchases otherwise you just come across as a petulant entitled Karen.
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Why should they have to make a huge announcement out of this? Patch notes as I stated are everywhere, and the information isn't "buried", it's in the official way of BHVR communicating updates. I don't see why making a huge fuss out of it. The only things they should communicate are changes/bugs that weren't listed on the patch notes, like disabling RPD.
You can complain if you want to, I never said you can't, just don't go accusing a company of "misleading buyers" when you have no proof it at all.
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For me his voice lines were a major part of why people were going to buy him.
They should have made it very visible that he no longer had those OR will have those.
Clarity is everything.
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Why do you keep using quotations marks for things I didn't even say? Is that the only way you can make your point? Putting words in people's mouths?
I saw a post on reddit about the change and didn't buy the DLC because of it. That doesn't mean that I can't complain about horrible business practices when I see them. I'm not complaining because I want a refund, I'm complaining because I want some transparency from BHVR in the future. I like this game and want to continue to like it, but if they are going to do the bare minimum for their player base, I can't really justify buying more DLC. I'm complaining because I want them to do better.
But I guess this is the precedent we're setting. Players will have to go into every DLC purchase with the assumption that BHVR ######### it up somehow and they'll have to go into the patch notes to see how. The trust is gone.
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Friendly reminder that the removal of the voice lines was listed in the patch notes as an intentional change from the PTB, not a Known Issue. That should be your clue that it's not a technical issue.
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Because a company should want to be transparent with their consumers. People go to the patch notes expecting things like mechanical changes, not changes to the theme of the character. I do think this is misleading buyers since the main exposure people have to the killer is what was seen on the PTB. If BHVR doesn't want to be accused of misleading buyers, it should be on them to provide proof that that wasn't the intention. If they do the bare minimum to get the information out, they're covering their asses legally, but misleading buyers from every other standpoint.
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I said "just" $5 - because that's what people are saying.. the amount is irrelevant because $5 to one person is nothing whereas to others it can be a lot of money.
I said "doing their part" because you keep saying they are only doing what they HAVE to do etc and that action will upset players.
Again you continue to completely absolve the buyer who couldn't be bothered to read about the product they were buying.
Anyways this topic is inane and ran its course - have fun - I'm out.
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And you continue to completely absolve the seller of providing information in a visible way. I just think BHVR can do better and am really hoping they strive to do so in the future.
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"People go to the patch notes expecting things like mechanical changes" which is wrong. Everything can be changed from the PTB.
"I do think this is misleading buyers since the main exposure people have to the killer is what was seen on the PTB". Then that's the fault of those who don't know things can be changed from PTB and bought the chapter on day 1 without reading the patch notes. I don't know why BHVR should be responsible for bad buying practices.
"If BHVR doesn't want to be accused of misleading buyers, it should be on them to provide proof that that wasn't the intention" No it isn't. The one who accuses should be the one to provide proof, and until now you haven't proved anything that it was their intention to mislead buyers. Again, the DLC never stated "this killer is going to have voice lines".
If you don't approve BHVR's attitudes, stop buying things, especially on release day. I'm not satisfied with the current situation on consoles, so I didn't buy neither the RE or Pinhead chapters. If you're going to complain about BHVR misleading buyers and you still buy them on release day without reading patch notes, you're not really making a point.
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The issue here is that they added the "with the audio files" part. If they would've just said due to complications, then that wouldn't imply any bug. But because they said complications with the audio files, many people might think there is some kind of a bug with the audio files.
What if someone never heard of dbd, saw that pinhead is coming and waits for 12PM est to finally buy the game and the dlc. That person will of course not read the patch notes, they don't know anything about what was in the game in the past so changes from that won't matter to them. Or what if they read the patch notes, but they don't know that if it were due to a bug, it would've appeared in known issues?
Pinhead's voicelines were a clear huge part of what made him cool and interesting. To me, a main aspect of a character being removed is something worth a twitter post.
Also, please stop with the mentality of "because they don't have to do something, don't be angry they didn't". Yes, they aren't obligated to say why they removed it, they aren't obligated to say why the game will be disabled for 2 weeks, but there is more to having a company than being legal. When you offer a service, you want to build up trust. It's not needed legally, but without it you can't have success and happy customers.
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This is by no means confirmed but here is what I think. The license holder saw the "I came" memes and didn't like seeing their character suddenly become a laughingstock and told BHVR to remove it. That's why they can't disclose the reasons why as its part of their NDA
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Way to make assumptions.
I didn't buy the DLC and don't intend to if this is the way BHVR is going to operate. I'm not complaining because I feel cheated. I'm complaining because I WANT to be able to get excited about future DLC. If BHVR is going to give players the bare minimum then I'm not going to buy any more DLC. The issue is that I WANT to WANT the DLC. I like this game and want to continue liking it. That is why I want BHVR to do better.
Doing the bare minimum does not make them immune from criticism. The PTB created expectations and BHVR knew those expectations were going to be broken, they could and should have handled this better.
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If you really want BHVR to do better, accusing them of "misleading buyers" is NOT the way to go. You're free to do criticism, but the way you guys are doing it isn't meaningful in any way, in fact it hurts the game on the long run.
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If BHVR's action cause people to think they are misleading buyers then it is something they are bringing on themselves. If they are not called out on it, they'll continue to behave this way. More likely than not, they'll continue to behave this way anyway, but at least more people will know how they operate. They still haven't even said outright if the changes are permanent or temporary. If they just had the slightest amount of transparency, no one would accuse them of being misleading. Until they provide that transparency, I'm going to continue thinking that they are misleading buyers by having the PTB not be representative of the final product.
If you have a different definition of what misleading buyers means, that's fine. But what BHVR is doing meets my standards for it.
And I doubt a forum post will hurt them much in the long run. Definitely less than their own actions. They're hurting themselves.
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If they would've just said due to complications, then that wouldn't imply any bug. But because they said complications with the audio files, many people might think there is some kind of a bug with the audio files.
I refer to my previous stance: If it were a technical issue, it would have been listed under "Known Issues," not "Changes from PTB."
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They did not give any reason. But that it was under "Changes from PTB" should indicate that it is intentional and will not come back. Otherwise it would be under "known Issues".
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You know i know that legal issues happen, but i don't think it's right to Hype people up about this chapter and find out it's stripped and not the full experience. Ontop of him being weak
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Changes from PTB have dealt with bugs as recently as the nemesis chapter, though that one had much more organized labels. This chapter's section only has the two headers "Cenobite" and "miscellaneous." which themselves are vague and don't mean much.
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Feeling disappointed doesn't alays mean that someone else did something wrong. Misunderstanding something doesn't always mean that someone was trying to mislead you.
When I read the patch notes, I inferred that the voice lines they recorded were probably not coming back, since the context made it seem like it wasn't a technical issue -- but I could be wrong. And I can understand how other people might read the notes and not see the same context.
But I think the important point is that, when you buy something, you either need to be willing to accept it as-is, or have a very clear promise for when and how it's going to be changed. TBH, I bought Trickster thinking they were obviously going to update him after release, and then I was disappointed that they didn't, but that's on me. I should have waited to see if he would get the features I wanted.
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Patch notes shouldn't rely on you inferring what they mean. Transparency is not that difficult and if BHVR made it difficult by signing a contract, that's on them.
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well, not disclosing it is telling a lot by itself. BHVR.... I can only shake my head with them lately
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You know, if it really has something to do with the license that they are under NDA?
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It is obviously shady, but you know, not entirely unexpected. You need to be really careful with gaming companies. They do not have the same standards most businesses have.
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Oh boy, here i thought discussion on this was over and done with but it turns out this chapter was supporting nfts as well? BHVR really should have made this knowledge beforehand.
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